Re: Re: RS in UK
And they have already migrated to the new layout in some countries.
Personally I think Farnell is great and prices not bad. Taking the example of IRFP240 you get a guaranteed IRF part from Farnell at a price and at Reichelt you get SOME manufacturer POSSIBLY IRF. Which choice you make depends on your needs. Also prices at these suppliers vary considerably between countries and for instance the IRFP240 is twice the price in Sweden compared to Switzerland.
Magura said:
And they have already migrated to the new layout in some countries.
Personally I think Farnell is great and prices not bad. Taking the example of IRFP240 you get a guaranteed IRF part from Farnell at a price and at Reichelt you get SOME manufacturer POSSIBLY IRF. Which choice you make depends on your needs. Also prices at these suppliers vary considerably between countries and for instance the IRFP240 is twice the price in Sweden compared to Switzerland.
If you actually think about the kinds of systems RS will be using to pack your orders, the paper bags make perfect sense.
Say you're one of the packing guys.
You get an order form through that might say, so many packs of this resistor, so many of this transistor and so many of this capacitor.
There are two ways this system is likely to work from here. You could split the order up and have three guys, each in different sections, collect each different kind of part. Or, you can have guy collect all three.
Either way, you'll be complaining when they accidentally leave a part out.
Since it's very likely that you will have multiple quantaties of specific items, putting them in paper bags makes sense. It allows the packers to pack these parts as subunits and tick them off, instead of having tens or hundred of individual plastic bags everywhere.
I have, personally, worked in a mass processing warehouse, and I know, personally, from first hand experience, how painful it is to work with such quantaties and maintain an accurate output.
The packer doesn't know you. They have no idea what you're doing or what you need other than your order form, of which, they will probably process hundreds per day. Each with tens of items on.
Personally, I think RS do an excellent job. I place my order, it arrives the next morning. If something is wrong or missing, I call them, and it's on my doorstep the next day. I called and had them send me over 27 UKP's worth of capacitor by just telling them they were missing.
The bags annoy me, but I'm sure they're a major part of how they operate.
Companies have to meet recycling guidelines now, and are actively forced to recycle their waste. If the bagging slowed down their system, or increased their service costs, they wouldn't use it.
Saying all this, I am the person who pulls my family's waste paper out of the regular bin and puts in for recycling.
I seriously dislike the wasteful society that's being produced in the West. Yet, I think you need to check your areas for concern.
If the bags concern you so much, recycle them. They're paper. I'm sure a lot of the packing has actually been recycled already.
How about complaining to the companies who send out half a million tonnes of junk mail each year?
Maybe you could write to the US government and ask them to sign into the CO2 emission guide lines?
Say you're one of the packing guys.
You get an order form through that might say, so many packs of this resistor, so many of this transistor and so many of this capacitor.
There are two ways this system is likely to work from here. You could split the order up and have three guys, each in different sections, collect each different kind of part. Or, you can have guy collect all three.
Either way, you'll be complaining when they accidentally leave a part out.
Since it's very likely that you will have multiple quantaties of specific items, putting them in paper bags makes sense. It allows the packers to pack these parts as subunits and tick them off, instead of having tens or hundred of individual plastic bags everywhere.
I have, personally, worked in a mass processing warehouse, and I know, personally, from first hand experience, how painful it is to work with such quantaties and maintain an accurate output.
The packer doesn't know you. They have no idea what you're doing or what you need other than your order form, of which, they will probably process hundreds per day. Each with tens of items on.
Personally, I think RS do an excellent job. I place my order, it arrives the next morning. If something is wrong or missing, I call them, and it's on my doorstep the next day. I called and had them send me over 27 UKP's worth of capacitor by just telling them they were missing.
The bags annoy me, but I'm sure they're a major part of how they operate.
Companies have to meet recycling guidelines now, and are actively forced to recycle their waste. If the bagging slowed down their system, or increased their service costs, they wouldn't use it.
Saying all this, I am the person who pulls my family's waste paper out of the regular bin and puts in for recycling.
I seriously dislike the wasteful society that's being produced in the West. Yet, I think you need to check your areas for concern.
If the bags concern you so much, recycle them. They're paper. I'm sure a lot of the packing has actually been recycled already.
How about complaining to the companies who send out half a million tonnes of junk mail each year?
Maybe you could write to the US government and ask them to sign into the CO2 emission guide lines?
If you'd been complaining about Maplin's prices or quality of packing I could sympathise, but I can't fault RS. (I also go back to Radiospares).
The paper bags are quirky, but I still get my carrots in brown paper bags from the market. The bags rot, plastic doesn't. They have a massive range, datasheets for virtually everything, fast delivery and a website with good groupings and plenty of images.
Prices are competitive UK prices - delivery is high to Joe Public, so wait till you can make up a decent order.
OK, many things cost less in the US - components along with petrol, steak and books. If you want a few cheap generic parts use Futurlec - $3 delivery anywhere in the world - but don't expect a wide choice or a brand name against stuff.
The paper bags are quirky, but I still get my carrots in brown paper bags from the market. The bags rot, plastic doesn't. They have a massive range, datasheets for virtually everything, fast delivery and a website with good groupings and plenty of images.
Prices are competitive UK prices - delivery is high to Joe Public, so wait till you can make up a decent order.
OK, many things cost less in the US - components along with petrol, steak and books. If you want a few cheap generic parts use Futurlec - $3 delivery anywhere in the world - but don't expect a wide choice or a brand name against stuff.
cpemma said:If you'd been complaining about Maplin's prices or quality of packing I could sympathise, but I can't fault RS. (I also go back to Radiospares).
The paper bags are quirky, but I still get my carrots in brown paper bags from the market. The bags rot, plastic doesn't. They have a massive range, datasheets for virtually everything, fast delivery and a website with good groupings and plenty of images.
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Paper bags and sealed plasticised bags for each item? - they must be barmey.
A high tech company with a large catalog should try to implement a robotic picking and stocking system.
I thought that this forum appeals to engineers.
I recently ordered from Futurlec:
Electrolytic Capacitor Pack
Radial and some axial Electrolytic Capacitors. In various voltages and sizes. 100 quality pieces.
And all caps were from Elna ! I did some test with an ESR meter in he office which confirmed that it are good quality caps.
Electrolytic Capacitor Pack
Radial and some axial Electrolytic Capacitors. In various voltages and sizes. 100 quality pieces.
And all caps were from Elna ! I did some test with an ESR meter in he office which confirmed that it are good quality caps.
This is where reality comes home, that a lot of people are cheaper to hire than machines... they just don't like to think so.
A pick and place machine for a catalog of RS's size just wouldn't be realistic - especially considering the differences in weight and shape of some of the things they sell. But perhaps one for sorting the smaller bits might be a good idea, like the resistors and such.
The plastic bags almost certainly help with storage. With people needing access to parts at quite frequent random times, the only option is to leave the box of them open - otherwise you'd have to open and close thousands of boxes each day. If the warehouse is a bit damp or dusty then all the stuff in the boxes will just get messed up.
Again, I agree with you, I just think there are better candidates than RS.
A pick and place machine for a catalog of RS's size just wouldn't be realistic - especially considering the differences in weight and shape of some of the things they sell. But perhaps one for sorting the smaller bits might be a good idea, like the resistors and such.
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This is an attitude of mind. They do it in Japan and even in Hong Kong.
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This is an attitude of mind. They do it in Japan and even in Hong Kong.
As before, I agree with you. But there is an entirely different attitude between the UK and US, let alone global countries.
There are much more serious issue that needs addressing, other than recycling, in this conversation.
Japan has a ten fold decrease on the timescale they expect their equipment to last when compared to the USA.
You open a semiconductor packet... where was it made?
What annoys me, more than RS sending me paper bags, is seeing one person driving a 4x4 to work, half a mile down the road.
In my world, everything that could be recycled, would be. But, you need to aim at the main abusers first.
I still haven't ordered anything from RS, so I am not sure I
understand quite how the parts are packaged. I assume
that if you order 10 of a particular component, you won't
get them in 10 different plastic bags, but all 10 in one. If
this is not the case, then I agree it seem like a great waste.
If the complaint is that each component type is delivered
in its own plastic bag, then that makes sense.
I can only compare to Elfa here in Sweden (and some neighbouring
countries) where they manually pick the components (out of
bins, I suppose) and put all devices of the same type in a
separate plastic bag. All semiconductors are put in ESD safe
bags and since they have Quality assurance on this point I
presume they use proper ESD safe techniques for picking and
packaging. I have on some occasions experienced non-ESD-
sensitive components being packed in ESD safe bags, which
seems like a waste, but maybe these bags aren't more
expensive? However, what may be considered a waste is when
things are not in stock locally and have to be backordered from
the main store in Stockholm. Then most of the plastic bags bags
are put in a small paper box, one for each bag. This seems
unneccesary. Elfa has quite a large stock, and a thick
catalogue, so prices are like those of RS or even more
expensive. The price of bags etc. is probably small compared
to the price of picking and packaging.
Magura,
you hinted there are much cheaper companies in Sweden and
Denmark that also have a large selection of components in
stock, but with lower prices? What companies are you
thinking or? At least in Sweden, I can only think of one
company with a decent selection and lower prices, but there
you don't know what brand you get. I received transistors I
though were only manufactured by Hitachi, but which turned
out to be a brand from India!
understand quite how the parts are packaged. I assume
that if you order 10 of a particular component, you won't
get them in 10 different plastic bags, but all 10 in one. If
this is not the case, then I agree it seem like a great waste.
If the complaint is that each component type is delivered
in its own plastic bag, then that makes sense.
I can only compare to Elfa here in Sweden (and some neighbouring
countries) where they manually pick the components (out of
bins, I suppose) and put all devices of the same type in a
separate plastic bag. All semiconductors are put in ESD safe
bags and since they have Quality assurance on this point I
presume they use proper ESD safe techniques for picking and
packaging. I have on some occasions experienced non-ESD-
sensitive components being packed in ESD safe bags, which
seems like a waste, but maybe these bags aren't more
expensive? However, what may be considered a waste is when
things are not in stock locally and have to be backordered from
the main store in Stockholm. Then most of the plastic bags bags
are put in a small paper box, one for each bag. This seems
unneccesary. Elfa has quite a large stock, and a thick
catalogue, so prices are like those of RS or even more
expensive. The price of bags etc. is probably small compared
to the price of picking and packaging.
Magura,
you hinted there are much cheaper companies in Sweden and
Denmark that also have a large selection of components in
stock, but with lower prices? What companies are you
thinking or? At least in Sweden, I can only think of one
company with a decent selection and lower prices, but there
you don't know what brand you get. I received transistors I
though were only manufactured by Hitachi, but which turned
out to be a brand from India!
Hi,
That depends entirely on what it is you order.
Their catalogue, on paper or on their website, tells you what the minimum quantity is for each item.
For example:
10 R resistor metalfilm-1/4W- 5 each, means that if you need 2 resistors you'll actually have to buy 5 so your order is:
Item # * 1 which will be one bag with 5 resistors 10R MF.
It's the same system for whatever you order so whatever bag you open, it will always contain a predefined number of the same component.
It makes packaging easy, ordering easy, both from their standpoint as from the customers'.
Components prone to ESD such as certain sensitive semi-conductors are often prepacked individually to protect each single component and than group packed in a sealed bag containing, again, the minimum order quantity.
If anyone feels this is wasteful then they should also perhaps consider how wasteful it is sending wrongly put together orders back and forth.
If I'm not mistaken RS also need to comply to ISO certification standards, 2000 or 2002, I don't remember which.
That doesn't really leave them much room for creativity as anyone familiar with these very stringent certifaction programs can tell you.
Cheers,😉
That depends entirely on what it is you order.
Their catalogue, on paper or on their website, tells you what the minimum quantity is for each item.
For example:
10 R resistor metalfilm-1/4W- 5 each, means that if you need 2 resistors you'll actually have to buy 5 so your order is:
Item # * 1 which will be one bag with 5 resistors 10R MF.
It's the same system for whatever you order so whatever bag you open, it will always contain a predefined number of the same component.
It makes packaging easy, ordering easy, both from their standpoint as from the customers'.
Components prone to ESD such as certain sensitive semi-conductors are often prepacked individually to protect each single component and than group packed in a sealed bag containing, again, the minimum order quantity.
If anyone feels this is wasteful then they should also perhaps consider how wasteful it is sending wrongly put together orders back and forth.
If I'm not mistaken RS also need to comply to ISO certification standards, 2000 or 2002, I don't remember which.
That doesn't really leave them much room for creativity as anyone familiar with these very stringent certifaction programs can tell you.
Cheers,😉
Christer said:
I cant remember the name of the swedish sister company, but in Denmark there is Århus radio lager. There you simply just ask for a specific manufacturer if you need that. Thats where I buy 95% of my components and equipment. Their hompage stinks, but then again I usually dont have the patience to order stuff through a homepage anyway.
http://www.aarhus-radio-lager.dk/
Most components are not more than a phonecall away and will be delivered next day.....for about a third of the price of RS and Farnell, and packed to your specs.
Magura🙂
Magura said:
Yes, I have seen you or somebody else refer to them previously.
Since they had no online catalogue, I found it impossible to
judge them for price and selection. However, if there is some
similar company in Sweden I'd be happy to hear about it. The
best alternative I've found is BHIAB, but they specify no brand,
but one can of course phone and ask what they happen to
have this day. Still, I have an Elfa shop in town, which
compensates somewhat for the freight prices for mailorder
companies.
Edit: With smaller and cheaper companies I fear there is
a larger risk they use less reliable suppliers, thus increasing
the risk for counterfeit devices, but maybe Aarhus Radio are
big enough to buy from the reliable ones.
Frank, I understand you such that for components that can
be ordered in single quantities, I actually get a bag for each
piece from RS. That sounds like a waste. Elfa do it differently
and they are also certified according to ISO 9002 and
IEC 134-5-1, the latter regarding ESD-sensitive devices. So
there seems to be some potential for flexibility after all.
be ordered in single quantities, I actually get a bag for each
piece from RS. That sounds like a waste. Elfa do it differently
and they are also certified according to ISO 9002 and
IEC 134-5-1, the latter regarding ESD-sensitive devices. So
there seems to be some potential for flexibility after all.
Christer said:
For a few, and I mean very few components, counterfeit components is a problem. Some of the digi chips suffer from that and like 5 types of transistors/ mosfets have the same problem. In case of such problems, RS is no better. Do a search on this forum and youll find examples of RS selling counterfeit parts. What I do like about the smaller suppliers is that they know YOU, it makes it so much easier to get around with things when you are able to make them send stuff on the spot and the like.
Magura🙂
ok, i ordered at reichelt ~48 hours ago, and recived the parts ~12 hours ago... shipping was 3,60€ and prices much better than any other supplyer i know. I never had problems when sending stuff back to reichelt, and they send parts missing in a sending because of mistake they made in about one day after you call them. When i ordered my IRFP240 i asked i want them only from IR, and they sent me IR. If not i would simply return and they have to pay the shipping.
If i order on part of one type, it comes in a small plastic bag. If i order 50 of that type, they send 50 in a larger bag.
They are certified DIN EN ISO 9001:2000, what really does not help me in any way, i would prefer no of that 9000+ crap nonsense and even lower prices...
If i order on part of one type, it comes in a small plastic bag. If i order 50 of that type, they send 50 in a larger bag.
They are certified DIN EN ISO 9001:2000, what really does not help me in any way, i would prefer no of that 9000+ crap nonsense and even lower prices...
Hi,
No.
You normally get a single bag per quantity not piece, as they prepackage it before it goes into their warehouse.
As you have to order in multiples of or a single quantity (1* to n*) you will have a minimum of 1 bag containing a multiple of a single component, all of which are exactly the same, sitting losely in that single quantity bag, not individually packed.
Except for ESD prone components where the order quantity is often also 1* minimum order number of say a BF245A and that bag of x* components can (and in my book should) contain say,
5 * BF245A where every single BF245A comes in a sinlge ESD protection baglet and all 5 of them together come in a translucent and sealed plastic bag with order code numbers in the main bag, all you'll ever need for a repeat order.
IOW, when you have 5 BF245As you'll have ordered 1* #digits for ordering code if that's the minium ordering quantity.
When you need 6 of them you'll receive one carton or jiffy bag containing two bags of 5 BF245As each (you now have 10 BF245As) and each and every BF245A will be packed in its own anti-ESD baglet, 5 of them in one plastic bag, the other 5 in yet another.
So when you have used one BF245A all the others will still be ESD protected, you'll have opened two bags; one main container bag which BTW is airtight, translucent and moisture proof, one individual anti-ESD baglet.
The rest is still as protected as can be and ready for further storage without you having to worry about ESD, moist or other possible contaminants.
Cheers, 😉
No.
You normally get a single bag per quantity not piece, as they prepackage it before it goes into their warehouse.
As you have to order in multiples of or a single quantity (1* to n*) you will have a minimum of 1 bag containing a multiple of a single component, all of which are exactly the same, sitting losely in that single quantity bag, not individually packed.
Except for ESD prone components where the order quantity is often also 1* minimum order number of say a BF245A and that bag of x* components can (and in my book should) contain say,
5 * BF245A where every single BF245A comes in a sinlge ESD protection baglet and all 5 of them together come in a translucent and sealed plastic bag with order code numbers in the main bag, all you'll ever need for a repeat order.
IOW, when you have 5 BF245As you'll have ordered 1* #digits for ordering code if that's the minium ordering quantity.
When you need 6 of them you'll receive one carton or jiffy bag containing two bags of 5 BF245As each (you now have 10 BF245As) and each and every BF245A will be packed in its own anti-ESD baglet, 5 of them in one plastic bag, the other 5 in yet another.
So when you have used one BF245A all the others will still be ESD protected, you'll have opened two bags; one main container bag which BTW is airtight, translucent and moisture proof, one individual anti-ESD baglet.
The rest is still as protected as can be and ready for further storage without you having to worry about ESD, moist or other possible contaminants.
Cheers, 😉
Frank,
OK I think I get it, and that explains why people worry about
the waste of bags. I do however also see the point you are
making about protecting the other devices when picking just
one out for use. Maybe RS adheres to a stricter ESD standard
than Elfa does then. OTOH, from Elfa I even got the heatsinks
in ESD bags. 🙂
OK I think I get it, and that explains why people worry about
the waste of bags. I do however also see the point you are
making about protecting the other devices when picking just
one out for use. Maybe RS adheres to a stricter ESD standard
than Elfa does then. OTOH, from Elfa I even got the heatsinks
in ESD bags. 🙂
Christer said:I still haven't ordered anything from RS, so I am not sure I
understand quite how the parts are packaged. I assume
that if you order 10 of a particular component, you won't
get them in 10 different plastic bags, but all 10 in one. If
this is not the case, then I agree it seem like a great waste.
If the complaint is that each component type is delivered
in its own plastic bag, then that makes sense.
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That is why I got sick of opening sealed ESD bags. Each little tranny or part is sealed in its own and if you order 50, you open 50 bags.
The ESD bags are contained in theoir own paper bags as well!!
ISO is not that meaningful. You set your own quality standard in your manual and if you stick to it then this is fine.
I have worked for outfits that simply use ISO as a marketing tool or bid qualifying device. They DO not stick to it
If you like, send all your transistors to me first.
I'll open all the packets, leave them in a box for a few weeks, whilst periodically opening the box to take some out after walking round a warehouse in my trainers, and then post them all on to you in a single ESD bag.
Please don't complain when I've accidentally killed 50% of them with static.
If you order 50, you order a tube and open one ESD packet.
The semiconductor market is not geared towards 50 unit sales, but 50,000 plus unit sales per transaction.
I'll open all the packets, leave them in a box for a few weeks, whilst periodically opening the box to take some out after walking round a warehouse in my trainers, and then post them all on to you in a single ESD bag.
Please don't complain when I've accidentally killed 50% of them with static.
If you order 50, you order a tube and open one ESD packet.
The semiconductor market is not geared towards 50 unit sales, but 50,000 plus unit sales per transaction.
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