But there was something on this matter that was interesting: active cables. That is cables using batteries or a power supply to polarize the wires.
Has anyone tried something like that?
Carlos
Has anyone tried something like that?
Carlos
carlmart said:
I haven't.
I just can't seem to come to grips philosophically with turning my cables into microphones (the dielectric biasing used in these cables is essentially the same principle behind what makes condenser microphones work).
se
carlmart said:
Apparently. Kimber was even able to get a patent on something which had already been patented (back in 1958) and is still being made and sold today (Magnetic Shield Corporation's Inter-8 Weave cable).
se
Steve Eddy said:
So we better laugh at them and use whatever we want when it refers to such ridiculous stuff.
About the biased cables, philosopohically there might be a point, but then you wouldn't use condenser mics or listen to anything recorded using them. Which is now probably 99% of what we listen to that is considered good sounding.
Or any other active electronics by the way, as they need to be biased.
Carlos
carlmart said:
Guess so. What I found particularly laughable is that even after Kimber was made aware of the fact that they'd patented something which had been patented over 40 years ago, they still refer to it as their "unique GyroQuadratic field geometry."
You kidding me? Some of the finest recording microphones in the world are are condenser microphones.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
se
Steve Eddy said:
I think he means we wouldnt listen to music being produced from a microphone 😕 😕
Steve Eddy said:
So if biased microphones are better, why not try cables and see if they can too?
Carlos
carlmart said:
Ummm... because mikes and cables are two different things that operate two different ways with two different functions and made of two different materials with two different geometries?
I just read a review of some so-called biased cables. The guy doing the review was fairly clueless but tried hard to bring a dose of skepticism to the manufacturer's claims. He concluded that the cables were very good but that the biasing did nothing for the sound. The manufacturer, in his comments, then proceeded to scour the reviewer for not being an expert in the technology and said a whole pile of incorrect things, designed (I presume) to mislead and help promote his new (and $$$$) product line. There's probably an honest cable company out there, but I haven't found it yet.
SY said:
Yes, it's hard to go around the mumbo-jumbo that prevails on the cable market.
There was a DIY active cable project, proposed by a German or French enthusiast on his site, that seemed interesting. I probably have a copy somewhere. Perhaps someone here knew about it or even tried it.
Carlos
thomas997 said:
That's not how I read it. And judging from his reply, that's apparently not what he meant. 🙂
se
carlmart said:
In the case of the condenser microphone, the biasing isn't to make it better, it's to make the thing work in the first place. Cables don't need biasing to work as cables.
se
SY said:
Boy, you sure like going out on a limb, don't you? 😀
Yeah, Art really got some grief over that. Sad.
As I'd said previously, Bill Low demonstrated he really didn't have a clue what he was talking about when he said:
The technical specifications permittivity and permeability describe these dielectric parameters.
Wait'll September or October. 😀
se
analog_sa said:
Yeah. But not quite in the same sense that typical cable manufacturers are into them. Ultimately the cables will be an ancillary product.
se
Steve Eddy said:
Dynamic microphones don't need any polarizing to work either. Or speakers. And you can get active versions of speakers as well as microphones. So why not cables?
People go to polarized microphones or speakers to make it better, not to make it work. In fact the supplies are usually a burden, but you get used to them because things get better.
So the point IS to make it better in the end. So why not cables if they really improve on something by going active?
Now let's find someone that is trustworthy and tried active cables...
Carlos
carlmart said:
Condenser, (electrostatic), microphones work on a different principle entirely than dynamic microphones. Condenser microphones require polarizing voltage or they do not work.
Dynamic microphones are pretty similar to speakers, and indeed many intercom systems use one element as both speaker and microphone. Did you ever hear of anyone saying, "I ran 10 volts DC thru my Shiva and boy, did the bass ever improve?"* Me neither.
As for active speakers, all that amounts to is including the amplifier in the same enclosure as the speaker-there is no difference in principle at all.
Let me make it clear that I am taking no sides in this debate. I have not heard active cables, nor, truth to tell, even any name brand super cable, so I am neutral. I just wanted to comment on the previous message.
*Note to newbies-do not ever run DC voltage through your speakers. You run the risk of permanent damage to your speaker.
IT OOK THEM 30 YEARS....
Hi,
Gee guys, those polarized cables go back to Methusalem.
In case someone else feels the need to rip off yet another guy with an idea here's the basic principle of operation.
For a translation of the original white paper from French to English I only accept checks in Euro with at least three (3) zeros behind the dot...I don't work for just anyone either...😀
Cheers, 😉
Hi,
Gee guys, those polarized cables go back to Methusalem.
In case someone else feels the need to rip off yet another guy with an idea here's the basic principle of operation.
For a translation of the original white paper from French to English I only accept checks in Euro with at least three (3) zeros behind the dot...I don't work for just anyone either...😀
Cheers, 😉
Attachments
Well, if you're neutral, it means you're not polarized. So you have taken sides.
Ohhhhhh..... Norman coordinate!
carlmart said:
Carlos, I like your insistence despite the naysayers. Say, why don't we put a call out to ask on what basis the naysayers say nay: who among those of you above who called the idea of polarizing cable dielectric bunk, especially those having scientific training, have compared the off and on modes of any such cable?
Here's a relevant question: does a -2V change in polarising voltage create the exact same change in dielectrics: 1) polarised at 1.5V and 2) polarised at, say, 15V? Seems to me something analogous to a zero-crossing distortion in dielectrics is not out of the question? Anyone with scientific knowhow of dielectrics care to pipe in?
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