With Tidal, you can download (To a ssd as long as your streamer supports it) and play your collection offline (no streaming). Catch is, only as long as you keep the subscription current.....apparently they check every couple months or so and somehow pull your plug if you don’t pony-up.
So the SQ issue doesn’t really exist.....as long as you pay the man!
So the SQ issue doesn’t really exist.....as long as you pay the man!
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Yes the famous US business model of the moving carrot and the running people trying to bite it.
Online entertainment is simply creating a fake necessity which one really does not need. Any subscription is IMO less freedom and it introduces dependance. Just look at youth when there is a hiccup in the internet and their phone looses connection 🙂
Best way to make people hooked is adding features and the death of creativity....convenience. True core of this hobby is just enjoying music on self built gear, no more no less. Any subscription model created around it is clutter IMO.
Online entertainment is simply creating a fake necessity which one really does not need. Any subscription is IMO less freedom and it introduces dependance. Just look at youth when there is a hiccup in the internet and their phone looses connection 🙂
Best way to make people hooked is adding features and the death of creativity....convenience. True core of this hobby is just enjoying music on self built gear, no more no less. Any subscription model created around it is clutter IMO.
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I’ve been a Tidal subscriber for over two yrs now, it’s the best thing since sliced bread as far as I’m concerned, access to new music is instant.....stuff I had no idea even existed.
All in cd quality (or better) any time anywhere.
It was hardly a necessity, but what it is......it’s pretty dang cool!😎
All in cd quality (or better) any time anywhere.
It was hardly a necessity, but what it is......it’s pretty dang cool!😎
Convenience always wins. I know people using Spotify only listening to what Spotify dictates.
Since independence is important to me no Netflix, no Tidal, no Spotify, no TV, no Deezer, no programming of unwanted political nonsense, no nothing. No fear of missing out too 😀
Since independence is important to me no Netflix, no Tidal, no Spotify, no TV, no Deezer, no programming of unwanted political nonsense, no nothing. No fear of missing out too 😀
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I'm probably going to try Tidal this winter, with the tools in Roon it should be able to help me discover new music..
I guess I'm pretty deaf, I've noticed no degradation since I started streaming my music collection over my network as compared to the completely self contained Sony. I must be deaf, right? Or there is just a lot of hype over crap that no longer really makes much if any audible difference?
Were I starting afresh in audio I would recommend this over any analog on the grounds that it betters most it. Guess I'm nuts.. lol
I still like tubes and horns, but I am not aware that I am paying a penalty sound quality wise for streaming digital audio over my network as compared to playing CDs or SACDs using my modified SCD-777ES, now admittedly getting pretty long in the tooth, or reconnecting the HD player.. LOL
I guess I'm pretty deaf, I've noticed no degradation since I started streaming my music collection over my network as compared to the completely self contained Sony. I must be deaf, right? Or there is just a lot of hype over crap that no longer really makes much if any audible difference?
Were I starting afresh in audio I would recommend this over any analog on the grounds that it betters most it. Guess I'm nuts.. lol
I still like tubes and horns, but I am not aware that I am paying a penalty sound quality wise for streaming digital audio over my network as compared to playing CDs or SACDs using my modified SCD-777ES, now admittedly getting pretty long in the tooth, or reconnecting the HD player.. LOL
Out of context. I did not say playing over a network is less ok than playing from CD (it likely is better). I said that playing from local storage is to be preferred with streamers and that wired is better than wireless. Saves a lot of RF garbage too. No need for self degradation by "pretty deaf", "nuts", "a lot of hype over crap that no longer really makes much if any audible difference?", "not aware" and the like.
Just compare playing from local storage to network streaming if the device supports it which is not the case when RPI are used. Create awareness 🙂
Just compare playing from local storage to network streaming if the device supports it which is not the case when RPI are used. Create awareness 🙂
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No not at all, I played out of local storage for years and years until I went to a networked system earlier this year. I don't hear any evidence whatsoever that this offers degraded performance as compared to any of the prior hardware it has replaced. It's robust, sounds at least as good as the Sony which was completely local storage.
My storage is at the end of 10 meters of duplex multimode fiber, but by local I take you mean "in box" with the player. I have two "in box" players and honestly I think this set up sounds better. (Totally opinion based) I have don't have a BER test set or jitter measurement hardware so I can't assess the robustness of data transfer over the network, but it is all played out of solid state memory locally so...
Anyway I guess we should not scare off prospective converts. So I am willing to let this go at this point.
My storage is at the end of 10 meters of duplex multimode fiber, but by local I take you mean "in box" with the player. I have two "in box" players and honestly I think this set up sounds better. (Totally opinion based) I have don't have a BER test set or jitter measurement hardware so I can't assess the robustness of data transfer over the network, but it is all played out of solid state memory locally so...
Anyway I guess we should not scare off prospective converts. So I am willing to let this go at this point.
Again: on the SAME hardware if it supports it. Comparing 2 ways of playing music on 2 different platforms is eh ... never mind. With local I mean a harddisk or SSD connected to a SATA port of the device that is the player. So... comparing playing of same file/music on device X in situation 1: device X from network source like NAS (wired/wirelessly) and situation 2: device X from internal harddisk/SSD with wireless preferably switched off. Wired connection then only serves for control of device X.
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Basically I would not have the means to do the comparison you suggest at this point with the hardware in use. The A/B comparison you propose isn't possible for me to perform.
I have a Sony HAP-Z1-ES and a HiFiMan HM901 both devices have local storage, the Sony will stream, the HM901 will not.
The streaming set up was compared directly with the HAP because I wanted to be sure before I jumped that it wasn't audibly inferior to the HAP. My testing was limited to level matching to 1dB or better and not blind or scientific, but I could find no sonic justification for not going to the streaming setup so I did.
I agree with your comments on network which is why the main system is fiber, but the other two streamers are less critical applications and are on bridges.
The Sony and HM901 represent a much bigger investment overall in digital hardware not too many years ago than does the entire streaming network. 🙂
I have a Sony HAP-Z1-ES and a HiFiMan HM901 both devices have local storage, the Sony will stream, the HM901 will not.
The streaming set up was compared directly with the HAP because I wanted to be sure before I jumped that it wasn't audibly inferior to the HAP. My testing was limited to level matching to 1dB or better and not blind or scientific, but I could find no sonic justification for not going to the streaming setup so I did.
I agree with your comments on network which is why the main system is fiber, but the other two streamers are less critical applications and are on bridges.
The Sony and HM901 represent a much bigger investment overall in digital hardware not too many years ago than does the entire streaming network. 🙂
The AB testing is impossible so we will never know. What if? We bother about dielectrics of capacitors, tube brands, what metal is used for lead wires of electrolytic capacitors and other extremely important tiny details but apparently we make easy assumptions in system choices.
The HAP-Z1ES is an excellent device and it really has well designed hardware compared to RPI which is not designed for audio. The HAP can also be operated with knobs, app and even an IR remote which is unique AND it has a display. Power supplies are OK too but the DAC is so so. The clock system is incomparable to RPI. In other words: your HAP should be the best when playing from internal SSD and when an external DAC is connected. You traded in quality for features it seems a bit. I guess you haven't tested like this. Situation 1: HAP playing file from internal disk/SSD to external DAC Y via USB input. Situation 2: RPI streaming same file from NAS to same external DAC Y via USB input. Only testing like this would be an honest comparison.
Comparing the 6 year old HAP playing from local storage on analog outputs to RPI combined with a more modern ES9038Q2M DAC streaming from a NAS is a non-test. It would qualify more as comparing DACs.
BTW wireless stuff for non critical applications still emits EMI to your critical stuff. Those radio waves are quite obstinate.
The HAP-Z1ES is an excellent device and it really has well designed hardware compared to RPI which is not designed for audio. The HAP can also be operated with knobs, app and even an IR remote which is unique AND it has a display. Power supplies are OK too but the DAC is so so. The clock system is incomparable to RPI. In other words: your HAP should be the best when playing from internal SSD and when an external DAC is connected. You traded in quality for features it seems a bit. I guess you haven't tested like this. Situation 1: HAP playing file from internal disk/SSD to external DAC Y via USB input. Situation 2: RPI streaming same file from NAS to same external DAC Y via USB input. Only testing like this would be an honest comparison.
Comparing the 6 year old HAP playing from local storage on analog outputs to RPI combined with a more modern ES9038Q2M DAC streaming from a NAS is a non-test. It would qualify more as comparing DACs.
BTW wireless stuff for non critical applications still emits EMI to your critical stuff. Those radio waves are quite obstinate.
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If cost no object, Audirvana is the best solution in my opinion. Local files and HiRes streaming are seamless, bit accurate, stable, internal upsampling filter that should sound better than any DAC chip digital filter, additional VST plugins of your choice, multi amp ready without additional AD/DA, and iPhone / iPad as a remote. Then connect your computer to your favorite DAC.
I looked up "Aries Mini". For $799 + a $299 linear power supply upgrade, it better sound better than a $40 pi with a $50 20WPC I2S amp loaded on top. Even with a $25 ebay 24V linear powering...
I think DIY is for getting pretty good for fairly reasonable, vs "If cost is no object". With that you could - and should - go to the moon and back, audio perception wise.
I think DIY is for getting pretty good for fairly reasonable, vs "If cost is no object". With that you could - and should - go to the moon and back, audio perception wise.
Wrong comparison as most use RPI with expensive reclocker HATs and DACs as most want excellent sound quality in this hobby. It also needs a linear PSU to shine. The Aries can be bought used (it is out of production for a while now), also needs a linear PSU to shine. The RPI needs a very good DAC (Allo Boss DAC is 261 $ with isolator and Allo linear PSU) which the Aries already has. The RPI has no possibility for local storage as it has no SATA. If you want a good looking streamer with these features prices are very close.
That PSU can be made DIY in both cases. For both solutions it needs to be very good for best results but of course one can make the comparison even more skewed by buying a 299 $ PSU for the Mini. One can look from financial persecutive or look at it from a quality perspective and then find a way to find/build/realise it cheaper. RPI is the other way around. One starts cheap as it costs peanuts but when true quality is wished then it will quickly be an expensive affair.
If you like skewed comparisons : the Cubox-i I4 pro with Volumio cost me 25 Euro for 2, the Volumio OS was free and the app costed me 2,29 Euro. Also sounds better than an RPI. Looks better too, is extremely small, is very fast, uses under 3W power so becomes way less hot, has ESATA, IR receiver AND transmitter, Toslink output, faster Ethernet etc. The PMA-60 was 325 Euro, it would be needed for an RPI too.
That PSU can be made DIY in both cases. For both solutions it needs to be very good for best results but of course one can make the comparison even more skewed by buying a 299 $ PSU for the Mini. One can look from financial persecutive or look at it from a quality perspective and then find a way to find/build/realise it cheaper. RPI is the other way around. One starts cheap as it costs peanuts but when true quality is wished then it will quickly be an expensive affair.
If you like skewed comparisons : the Cubox-i I4 pro with Volumio cost me 25 Euro for 2, the Volumio OS was free and the app costed me 2,29 Euro. Also sounds better than an RPI. Looks better too, is extremely small, is very fast, uses under 3W power so becomes way less hot, has ESATA, IR receiver AND transmitter, Toslink output, faster Ethernet etc. The PMA-60 was 325 Euro, it would be needed for an RPI too.
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A prototype with SATA port and internal harddisk/SSD? Or again a HAT attached to the already necessary HATs?
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I’ve been enjoying a Bluetooth setup here I was putting together for our daughter, a bit more than I thought I would. The sound has really impressed versus what was available just a few years ago, definitely catching up.
She may have to wait a while!
She may have to wait a while!
Hi here the diyaudio.com bigmouth again. You do know that Bleutooth (although convenient) is compressing audio and decompressing it at the receiver side? only AptX is worthwhile quality wise. Even wireless 802.11xx is technically better. Sorry but when quality is concerned wired ethernet communication playing either uncompressed or FLAC files wins. Local storage is again a tad better in many cases but not all. I found it hard to get rid of HF/RF signals creeping in everywhere with Bluetooth.
As we like to think in black/white terms (gross generalisation) it boils down to best convenience or best audio quality. The old fashioned way of thinking is setting the goal highest as possible and then find a middle point between best obtainable quality with reasonable convenience but that seems swimming against the stream nowadays 🙂
*BTW for knowing a real world price when one pursues high quality: there now is an excellent quality RPI streaming setup for sale in Swap Meet. That is without casing and PSU.
As we like to think in black/white terms (gross generalisation) it boils down to best convenience or best audio quality. The old fashioned way of thinking is setting the goal highest as possible and then find a middle point between best obtainable quality with reasonable convenience but that seems swimming against the stream nowadays 🙂
*BTW for knowing a real world price when one pursues high quality: there now is an excellent quality RPI streaming setup for sale in Swap Meet. That is without casing and PSU.
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