Are there any sources of high quality (new, not used or NOS) drivers that have the sort of TS parameters of the 1970s and 1980s, when loudspeakers used very large boxes? These would be very high compliance (high Vas) high efficiency drivers with low Xmax. I am especially interested in 10" and 12" woofers. These are nothing like today's "subwoofer" drivers but could play low if a very large box was used. They might have more in common with some pro-audio drivers that can be found today.
Where can I find this kind of driver? Any particular models I might look at?
Where can I find this kind of driver? Any particular models I might look at?
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For example, the Seas Prestige A26RE4 is sort of like the kind of driver I am thinking of:
Seas Prestige A26RE4 (H1411) 10" Paper Cone
Seas Prestige A26RE4 (H1411) 10" Paper Cone
I’m looking for the same; ideally 10” not 12”, but 95dB/2.83V for 50Hz to 400Hz.
But I want to stay around 2 cu foot or less.
Not sure if possible-
I’m come across-
SB Audience :: NERO-12MWN400D
Eminence Deltalite 10” (or 12”)?
But I want to stay around 2 cu foot or less.
Not sure if possible-
I’m come across-
SB Audience :: NERO-12MWN400D
Eminence Deltalite 10” (or 12”)?
You might get some ideas via filtering on high VAS abd driver size here. Prefiltered
Loudspeaker Database
The ciare10" driver faired pretty well in the battle of the monster midbass thread on distortion and frequency response. Its 12" sibling might be what you need
Ciare HW320 - 12" Woofer
Actually only the monacor would meet your requirements at a reasonable price
MONACOR SP-300P - 12" Woofer
Loudspeaker Database
The ciare10" driver faired pretty well in the battle of the monster midbass thread on distortion and frequency response. Its 12" sibling might be what you need
Ciare HW320 - 12" Woofer
Actually only the monacor would meet your requirements at a reasonable price
MONACOR SP-300P - 12" Woofer
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SB Audience and Faital-Pro, perhaps?
SB Audience :: ROSSO-12MW300
ROSSO-12MW300 has a sensitivity of 100 dB, FS =48 Hz, Qts=0.27, Vas=86 l, Xmax=6.7 mm
SB Audience :: ROSSO-12MW300
ROSSO-12MW300 has a sensitivity of 100 dB, FS =48 Hz, Qts=0.27, Vas=86 l, Xmax=6.7 mm
Interesting question: am I correct in understanding what you want is an AR3 woofer style 10 or 12", with let us say Fs 15=Hz, Vas>250 L (8 cubic feet), Cms <1.0 mm/N, Qe=0.5?
If that is what you are looking for, to my best of knowledge none of those exist anymore.
My suggestion may sound a bit weird, but is the only way to go: find an existing woofer with the proper motor specs and a outside cone diameter that is suitable for replacing the existing surround with a rubber or foam surround, in case the driver does not already have a compliant surround. Next thing is drastic surgery plus finding a very soft, highly compliant corrugated spider a la AR, Allison, Boston. Replace the non-compliant spider with the compliant replacement part. Easier than you might think, plus: hey, this is DIY, after all..
If that is what you are looking for, to my best of knowledge none of those exist anymore.
My suggestion may sound a bit weird, but is the only way to go: find an existing woofer with the proper motor specs and a outside cone diameter that is suitable for replacing the existing surround with a rubber or foam surround, in case the driver does not already have a compliant surround. Next thing is drastic surgery plus finding a very soft, highly compliant corrugated spider a la AR, Allison, Boston. Replace the non-compliant spider with the compliant replacement part. Easier than you might think, plus: hey, this is DIY, after all..
The only issue I have with some of the lower cost "classic" driver lines from GRS, etc. is the stamped metal basket. I would prefer a more open cast basket. I found some old Seas drivers like CA26RE, etc that are like this. But I am not sure they are still manufactured. I might have to stick with pro audio drivers, but many of them are optimized for high spl, and as a result have some cone breakup and resonance issues.
I don't want or need a "subwoofer" that has very low Fs and/or high excursion. I want to use the driver up to about 500Hz and Le shouldn't be too high.
In the 1990s I owned a pair of speakers from Infinity, SM120 or something like that. It combined a 12" woofer with a huge vented cabinet. The result was on the order of 92-94dB per Watt sensitivity and bass extension to 35-40Hz. This is the kind of driver I am thinking of.
I don't want or need a "subwoofer" that has very low Fs and/or high excursion. I want to use the driver up to about 500Hz and Le shouldn't be too high.
In the 1990s I owned a pair of speakers from Infinity, SM120 or something like that. It combined a 12" woofer with a huge vented cabinet. The result was on the order of 92-94dB per Watt sensitivity and bass extension to 35-40Hz. This is the kind of driver I am thinking of.
Mid bass selections
Hello Charlie... What is the upper x-over frequency you intend to use? Assume you are going to use this driver in a sealed box? Also assume rubber surround and cast frame. And assume you are after mid bass dynamics? Any budget range you need to meet? There are a surprising # of drivers outthere that may do the trick. Just need to know a bit more. J
Hello Charlie... What is the upper x-over frequency you intend to use? Assume you are going to use this driver in a sealed box? Also assume rubber surround and cast frame. And assume you are after mid bass dynamics? Any budget range you need to meet? There are a surprising # of drivers outthere that may do the trick. Just need to know a bit more. J
Current AR3A 12" sealed box woofer alternative.
Boden.... A vastly improved woofer that will perform as well or better in every respect assuming you are trying to clone an AR-3A would be the Peerless NE315W-08. (Paper cone version) In a stuffed 1.4 cu. ft. box you can get and FB and F3 around 40 Hz assuming .5 ohms or so of RG to cover typical passive cross over series resistances. QTC is in the .76- .8 area which is typical of what the AR3 woofer actually did. Clean out to 1.8K so easer crossover than the original. Built about 50 pairs of the orignal AR3A back in the early 70's when Heath Kit offered a kit version of the AR3A. Worked in a Heath-Kit store in Houston and built them for customers who did not, or could not build them. J
Boden.... A vastly improved woofer that will perform as well or better in every respect assuming you are trying to clone an AR-3A would be the Peerless NE315W-08. (Paper cone version) In a stuffed 1.4 cu. ft. box you can get and FB and F3 around 40 Hz assuming .5 ohms or so of RG to cover typical passive cross over series resistances. QTC is in the .76- .8 area which is typical of what the AR3 woofer actually did. Clean out to 1.8K so easer crossover than the original. Built about 50 pairs of the orignal AR3A back in the early 70's when Heath Kit offered a kit version of the AR3A. Worked in a Heath-Kit store in Houston and built them for customers who did not, or could not build them. J
If it’s the CA26RE4 you’re talking about, it’s alive and well. Probably one of the last drivers SEAS will discontinue.
I think some people a missing the point of the true "acoustic suspension" woofer. With sufficient volume, air is always a more linear spring than a spider. Make the spider a lesser amount of the restoring force, and the result is less distortion. Combine that with an "oversized" spider and in the normal X-max range the results can be almost perfect. The early AS speakers suffered with non-optimal motors, and could have issues with migration out of the gap and problems with restoring force. But with FEM analysis and newer build techniques you can reduce these issues considerably. I think it is time for a return of the high compliance drivers designed for only sealed applications. I want a woofer along the lines of the NHT-1259 with a modern optimized motor. I want floppy woofers!
Close, the CA26RFX. I see it is still available although currently out of stock at e.g. Madisound. It has almost the sensitivity spec I am seeking, but close enough. I haven't been able to find any published distortion data by a 3rd party.
Without saying too much it is as if the driver is in a very, very large box. The band would be 200Hz to 800Hz for a 10" driver, lower on either end if it is a 12" driver. I am looking for clean output. It's operating as a low-midrange driver in a multiway system.
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Another option might be the Scanspeak Discovery 26W/4534G:
26W/4534G00 – Scan-Speak A/S
Measurements here:
ScanSpeak 26W/4534G00 | HiFiCompass
26W/4534G00 – Scan-Speak A/S
Measurements here:
ScanSpeak 26W/4534G00 | HiFiCompass