I stumbled across these forums recently, seems to be a lot of knowledgeable folks here so I though I'd ask a question about some old gear I have.
I've got a Sansui "A-5 Integrated Amplifier" and also a "RG-7 Graphic Equaliser" here. I got them off my parents who probably bought them sometime around 1980.
The amp works OK but if I turn the volume up there is a quiet yet annoying hiss that comes out the speakers. The equaliser also works, but it has this light in the middle that doesn't turn on.
I've heard from other people that some old stereo gear is actually better than what is produced today, so my question is, are these particular models worth reconditioning? Would it be simple like swapping out parts is in a computer?
Thanks in advance.
I've got a Sansui "A-5 Integrated Amplifier" and also a "RG-7 Graphic Equaliser" here. I got them off my parents who probably bought them sometime around 1980.
The amp works OK but if I turn the volume up there is a quiet yet annoying hiss that comes out the speakers. The equaliser also works, but it has this light in the middle that doesn't turn on.
I've heard from other people that some old stereo gear is actually better than what is produced today, so my question is, are these particular models worth reconditioning? Would it be simple like swapping out parts is in a computer?
Thanks in advance.
I would not throw this away if it works, but I don't know its sonic value.
Jan Dupont has the service manual for it on his website.
http://www.audio-circuit.dk/Schematics/List files.php
No, it's not as easy as swapping parts in a computer. Unlike a computer, it has lethal voltage everywhere inside the chassis. Unless you're experienced with soldering and working with high voltage, I would get an electronics person to do the tune-up.
The electrolytic capacitors deteriorate over time and may be on their way out. If it's humming at all, this is probably the reason. The bias current and DC offset may have drifted from optimal values and may have reduced the sound qualities.
It's probably best to grab the service manual and take it to an electronics person who understands amplifiers, and get them to do any work required.
..Todd
Jan Dupont has the service manual for it on his website.
http://www.audio-circuit.dk/Schematics/List files.php
No, it's not as easy as swapping parts in a computer. Unlike a computer, it has lethal voltage everywhere inside the chassis. Unless you're experienced with soldering and working with high voltage, I would get an electronics person to do the tune-up.
The electrolytic capacitors deteriorate over time and may be on their way out. If it's humming at all, this is probably the reason. The bias current and DC offset may have drifted from optimal values and may have reduced the sound qualities.
It's probably best to grab the service manual and take it to an electronics person who understands amplifiers, and get them to do any work required.
..Todd
the particular amp
is a masterpiece
if it hasnt been canibalized in the past and if you have caution a few basic skills and understanding of basic electronics you will end up with a wonderfull sounding device that has a potential to happily serve you for a minimum of 30 years
you may find some help here and me and many other forum members can provide alot of help regarding the repair or upgrade of this amp
you may wana take a look at this .... ( will require ,understanding of basics , skills ,time,very lilte money, and some instruments )
vintage amplifier repair/upgrade manual
is a masterpiece
if it hasnt been canibalized in the past and if you have caution a few basic skills and understanding of basic electronics you will end up with a wonderfull sounding device that has a potential to happily serve you for a minimum of 30 years
you may find some help here and me and many other forum members can provide alot of help regarding the repair or upgrade of this amp
you may wana take a look at this .... ( will require ,understanding of basics , skills ,time,very lilte money, and some instruments )
vintage amplifier repair/upgrade manual
forgot that
amp like that combined with a nice pair of speakers will make a perfect system thta will not even need a tone control ....so the EQ will be a waste of time and money and will provide more problems than the actuall effect
but in this case just keep it clean and neat replace a few leds to make it just exist there lited on as a memory ....
regards sakis
amp like that combined with a nice pair of speakers will make a perfect system thta will not even need a tone control ....so the EQ will be a waste of time and money and will provide more problems than the actuall effect
but in this case just keep it clean and neat replace a few leds to make it just exist there lited on as a memory ....
regards sakis
GazG: I'm a Sansui enthusiast with quite a few Sansui amps, and two friends of mine host the site www.sansui.us so I think I can be of some assistance to you.
Sansui did make alot of great amps (power, integrated, and preamps) in the 1970's, and even in the 80's as well, but when the 80's came around, Sansui started making products that showed signs of cost-cutting (and other manufacturers did this as well as well, Pioneer, etc...). The big, heavy, analog-style amps of the 70's were replaced by newer digital-style models that were much more flimsy in construction (aka- cheap plastic, very evident on the tiny knobs & switches on the front panel).
The "A" model Sansui integrated amps of the 80's such as the A-5 you have was designed by Sansui to be part of a whole combo-rack system, as can be seen in their brochures of that time (which I have in my collection of Sansui literature). In other words, Sansui put together a system of the A-5 amp, along with a matching T-5 tuner, a turntable, cassette deck, Sansui speakers, equalizer, all inside a rack with simulated wood panels,and 'glass doors'. Sansui made many, Many of these combo systems in the 1980's, including others which had receivers and pre-power amps, instead of integrateds.
The whole idea was to sell a complete system to a customer which had all the basics and was easy to use at an affordable price. The amps that were higher in Power (wattage) sold for more $$, and likewise, the smaller ones sold for less. The A-5 you have is smaller in that, Sansui also made the A-7 and A-9, and thru the 80's they basically sold them with similar model #'s such as A-910/710/510, A-909/707/505...
So... the upshot is that while these "A" models are decent, they really dont have much $ value, and you can verify that if you were to see what they sell for on Ebay, which isnt much, maybe 50 bucks give or take. (Some early models which were more robust in design like the A-80, could sell for more, I saw one on Ebay sell for $179 recently).
With this in mind, it doesnt make sense at all to invest any money in repairing it, unless you have the skills the fiddle around with it yourself. From a financial perspective, its much more cost effective, to simply buy another model, or similar on Ebay, that already works fine and costs next to nothing to buy.
The same goes for the equalizer: Sansui made alot of them, very plastic construction, they might be decent, but worth 20 bucks at most. If you want to see/hear what some of the better quality products that Sansui made, then check out an SE-9 on Ebay, which can be had for not much $$.
As for amps, lets say integrateds, check out a Sansui AU-717 (made 1977-78). I am sure if you had one, and compared it side by side with the A-5, you would see and hear a substantial difference that would make you appreciate what a superb amp the AU-717 is. There are other models as well, but in my opinion, the 717 is the overall best value in terms of quality, price, and availability.
The A-5 you have dates to the early 80's. There are two ways to verify that. One is: the brochure I have shows the rack system with a turntable, thus, it was made before the era of when CD players came along. The other way is to check the serial # in the back to get the manufacturing date:
For Sansui the "code" is the third, fourth and fifth digits in the serial #: for example: if you see a s/n of: 211083726, then you focus on the 108, since they are the third thru fifth digits. The third digit represents the Year of manufacture, thus a 1 would be 198->1, (1981), and the fourth & fifth represents the Month, thus, 08 is the eight month, August.
Of course, a 108 could be August 1971 or 1991, but its clear from how different the models are, which separate decades they're from.
Regards,
B/F
Sansui did make alot of great amps (power, integrated, and preamps) in the 1970's, and even in the 80's as well, but when the 80's came around, Sansui started making products that showed signs of cost-cutting (and other manufacturers did this as well as well, Pioneer, etc...). The big, heavy, analog-style amps of the 70's were replaced by newer digital-style models that were much more flimsy in construction (aka- cheap plastic, very evident on the tiny knobs & switches on the front panel).
The "A" model Sansui integrated amps of the 80's such as the A-5 you have was designed by Sansui to be part of a whole combo-rack system, as can be seen in their brochures of that time (which I have in my collection of Sansui literature). In other words, Sansui put together a system of the A-5 amp, along with a matching T-5 tuner, a turntable, cassette deck, Sansui speakers, equalizer, all inside a rack with simulated wood panels,and 'glass doors'. Sansui made many, Many of these combo systems in the 1980's, including others which had receivers and pre-power amps, instead of integrateds.
The whole idea was to sell a complete system to a customer which had all the basics and was easy to use at an affordable price. The amps that were higher in Power (wattage) sold for more $$, and likewise, the smaller ones sold for less. The A-5 you have is smaller in that, Sansui also made the A-7 and A-9, and thru the 80's they basically sold them with similar model #'s such as A-910/710/510, A-909/707/505...
So... the upshot is that while these "A" models are decent, they really dont have much $ value, and you can verify that if you were to see what they sell for on Ebay, which isnt much, maybe 50 bucks give or take. (Some early models which were more robust in design like the A-80, could sell for more, I saw one on Ebay sell for $179 recently).
With this in mind, it doesnt make sense at all to invest any money in repairing it, unless you have the skills the fiddle around with it yourself. From a financial perspective, its much more cost effective, to simply buy another model, or similar on Ebay, that already works fine and costs next to nothing to buy.
The same goes for the equalizer: Sansui made alot of them, very plastic construction, they might be decent, but worth 20 bucks at most. If you want to see/hear what some of the better quality products that Sansui made, then check out an SE-9 on Ebay, which can be had for not much $$.
As for amps, lets say integrateds, check out a Sansui AU-717 (made 1977-78). I am sure if you had one, and compared it side by side with the A-5, you would see and hear a substantial difference that would make you appreciate what a superb amp the AU-717 is. There are other models as well, but in my opinion, the 717 is the overall best value in terms of quality, price, and availability.
The A-5 you have dates to the early 80's. There are two ways to verify that. One is: the brochure I have shows the rack system with a turntable, thus, it was made before the era of when CD players came along. The other way is to check the serial # in the back to get the manufacturing date:
For Sansui the "code" is the third, fourth and fifth digits in the serial #: for example: if you see a s/n of: 211083726, then you focus on the 108, since they are the third thru fifth digits. The third digit represents the Year of manufacture, thus a 1 would be 198->1, (1981), and the fourth & fifth represents the Month, thus, 08 is the eight month, August.
Of course, a 108 could be August 1971 or 1991, but its clear from how different the models are, which separate decades they're from.
Regards,
B/F
allow me to have
another opinion .....
i totally agree that the AU 717 was by far a better model but even the particular one is not much behind with a small minor improvement will sound the same as good as the 717 of course some less power ....
on the other hand the point i totally dont agree with you is that any Ebay amp of the same age will suffer the same exact problems and even if it works properly as you said that will not last for a long time
you may be very good in sansui history but electrolytic caps for starts have by far a diferent opinion .....
even if one of these amps was in stock for 29 years and never played before still the elctros inside are expected to be dead ...
this is what common practice says
if you follow the manual and if our not laying your hand farther than your reach then this will cost 50 dollars and 3 days of work for an ammature to upgrade
to me will take a couple of hours
regards sakis
another opinion .....
i totally agree that the AU 717 was by far a better model but even the particular one is not much behind with a small minor improvement will sound the same as good as the 717 of course some less power ....
on the other hand the point i totally dont agree with you is that any Ebay amp of the same age will suffer the same exact problems and even if it works properly as you said that will not last for a long time
you may be very good in sansui history but electrolytic caps for starts have by far a diferent opinion .....
even if one of these amps was in stock for 29 years and never played before still the elctros inside are expected to be dead ...
this is what common practice says
if you follow the manual and if our not laying your hand farther than your reach then this will cost 50 dollars and 3 days of work for an ammature to upgrade
to me will take a couple of hours
regards sakis
Sakis:
I have a degree in E.E. and that is my profession as well, so I dont consider myself to be just a Sansui 'historian', I am already aware of issues having to do with old electrolytic caps in vintage amplifiers. But I didnt see the need to go into a whole theoretical discussion about it in answering GazG's question.
He asked if this particular Sansui model was worth fixing, so I simply explained to him the difference in quality between what he had, and the better products that Sansui made over the years. I wanted to make him aware of the difference so that he doesnt get taken advantage of by someone who will overcharge him to repair it because he doesnt realize the A-5 doesnt have much $ value to begin with (unlike an AU-717, for example).
Unless this particular amp has some sentimental family value to him, I dont see how it makes any sense to spend more to fix it than the small $ amount its worth, unless the problem is an easy inexpensive fix done by a honest tech/repairman. But usually its the case that a tech will have a standard hourly rate for his work, so even if just a bulb was out and had to be replaced, it would cost a certain amount of money for the tech's time to do that, especially if he has to go thru a hassle of disassembling the front panel just to get access to the bulb. So my point was, if an amp is only worth $25 or so, it makes no sense to invest alot of money to fix it, when you can spend only 25 bucks to buy an already working one on Ebay, or similar. Of course, its possible the other one might have some caps showing their age, but the amp could still play and sound ok, and this should be sufficient for a modest amp like the A-5. I think if someone wants to have a good Sansui amp, and go through the time and expense to upgrade many of the components, etc.., its much better to do that on a model that was already built with much better quality, such as the AU-717.
Speaking of the 717, for those folks who are into the repair/upgrade aspect of this amp, here is a site that may be of interest:
http://www.geocities.com/cdkands/AU717-1
I have a degree in E.E. and that is my profession as well, so I dont consider myself to be just a Sansui 'historian', I am already aware of issues having to do with old electrolytic caps in vintage amplifiers. But I didnt see the need to go into a whole theoretical discussion about it in answering GazG's question.
He asked if this particular Sansui model was worth fixing, so I simply explained to him the difference in quality between what he had, and the better products that Sansui made over the years. I wanted to make him aware of the difference so that he doesnt get taken advantage of by someone who will overcharge him to repair it because he doesnt realize the A-5 doesnt have much $ value to begin with (unlike an AU-717, for example).
Unless this particular amp has some sentimental family value to him, I dont see how it makes any sense to spend more to fix it than the small $ amount its worth, unless the problem is an easy inexpensive fix done by a honest tech/repairman. But usually its the case that a tech will have a standard hourly rate for his work, so even if just a bulb was out and had to be replaced, it would cost a certain amount of money for the tech's time to do that, especially if he has to go thru a hassle of disassembling the front panel just to get access to the bulb. So my point was, if an amp is only worth $25 or so, it makes no sense to invest alot of money to fix it, when you can spend only 25 bucks to buy an already working one on Ebay, or similar. Of course, its possible the other one might have some caps showing their age, but the amp could still play and sound ok, and this should be sufficient for a modest amp like the A-5. I think if someone wants to have a good Sansui amp, and go through the time and expense to upgrade many of the components, etc.., its much better to do that on a model that was already built with much better quality, such as the AU-717.
Speaking of the 717, for those folks who are into the repair/upgrade aspect of this amp, here is a site that may be of interest:
http://www.geocities.com/cdkands/AU717-1
sorry ....
i still dont agree with you
you said it your shelf
----amplifier from ebay of the same age will suffer more or less from the same problems
----even if it is cheap tag what is the point since the expectancy is so low
and the point that i dont agree most is that the Ebay amp will sound fairly ok even with aged caps ....
well it seems to me that you havent realy evaluate this "fairly ok" cause if you did the next motion is to advice the OP to trush the amp and get a sony boombox to listen from
so where is the diy spirit here ????
if you simply
----recap the unit ( all unit )
---- add decoupling and bypass where needed
----make shure that resistors are still in original value
----if not replace some ( given the chance metal film will be an upgrade )
----take care of "mechano" soldering, cooling , new thermopaste , cleaning and all that
---replace with multiturn trimmer and tune up
--- beef up the idle up to a safe margin
--- see if you can rewire and/or skip some cables ( speaker switch and excesive wiring that goes with it )
----relocate/rewire zobel
---- use good material to do that
this list will cost much less than 50 usd and when you are done with it if you mark in quality the 717 with 10 expect the repaired unit to hit easily number 8 !!!
i stated my point and i rest my case here
thank you for your atention
i still dont agree with you
you said it your shelf
----amplifier from ebay of the same age will suffer more or less from the same problems
----even if it is cheap tag what is the point since the expectancy is so low
and the point that i dont agree most is that the Ebay amp will sound fairly ok even with aged caps ....
well it seems to me that you havent realy evaluate this "fairly ok" cause if you did the next motion is to advice the OP to trush the amp and get a sony boombox to listen from
so where is the diy spirit here ????
if you simply
----recap the unit ( all unit )
---- add decoupling and bypass where needed
----make shure that resistors are still in original value
----if not replace some ( given the chance metal film will be an upgrade )
----take care of "mechano" soldering, cooling , new thermopaste , cleaning and all that
---replace with multiturn trimmer and tune up
--- beef up the idle up to a safe margin
--- see if you can rewire and/or skip some cables ( speaker switch and excesive wiring that goes with it )
----relocate/rewire zobel
---- use good material to do that
this list will cost much less than 50 usd and when you are done with it if you mark in quality the 717 with 10 expect the repaired unit to hit easily number 8 !!!
i stated my point and i rest my case here
thank you for your atention
That hiss may be normal. Is it audible over music? If hiss is due to some fault, it would most likely occur on only one channel, not both. (I had a transistor turn noisy on a Hafler preamp...) If it ain't broke...
If your goal is sonic excellence, trolling yard sales, flea markets, recycling yards, etc could turn up newer and better receivers or amps for less money. I pulled an NAD 705 receiver out of a scrap metal dumpster a few days ago, and it appears to be in working order except for a panel lamp. People who've "upgraded" to surround sound are literally throwing away perfectly good if not great stereo gear.
If your goal is sonic excellence, trolling yard sales, flea markets, recycling yards, etc could turn up newer and better receivers or amps for less money. I pulled an NAD 705 receiver out of a scrap metal dumpster a few days ago, and it appears to be in working order except for a panel lamp. People who've "upgraded" to surround sound are literally throwing away perfectly good if not great stereo gear.
I didn't notice BeatleFred's post the other night (too much to drink), so I thought I'd add a bit more to the story.
BeatleFred was correct in that these two items are part of a complete set, and pretty much described it 100%. It used to be housed in a "wooden" (chipboard with a vinyl woodgrain overlay) cabinet, with glass doors. There was a turntable, tuner and cassette tape deck as well as the amp and equaliser, and they have grooves on top that match the feet so you can stack the units on top of each other. The speakers (which I also still have) are not Sansui, they are branded "Acculab" (which I guess could just be a rebadged Sansui perhaps?).
I'm considering now whether I find someone who can do a decent job repairing it, or purchase new gear. I really would like to see that equaliser unit light up (does anyone know what it does?)
Anyways, if I were to get new stuff would I be able to get the same quality for less money?
Once again, thanks for the advice and insight.
BeatleFred was correct in that these two items are part of a complete set, and pretty much described it 100%. It used to be housed in a "wooden" (chipboard with a vinyl woodgrain overlay) cabinet, with glass doors. There was a turntable, tuner and cassette tape deck as well as the amp and equaliser, and they have grooves on top that match the feet so you can stack the units on top of each other. The speakers (which I also still have) are not Sansui, they are branded "Acculab" (which I guess could just be a rebadged Sansui perhaps?).
I'm considering now whether I find someone who can do a decent job repairing it, or purchase new gear. I really would like to see that equaliser unit light up (does anyone know what it does?)
Anyways, if I were to get new stuff would I be able to get the same quality for less money?
Once again, thanks for the advice and insight.
Sakis, I dont understand why you seem to feel the need to disagree with my opinion that the A-5 amp is not worth comparing compared to a much better amp like the AU-717, when I just found that you-yourself already praised the 717 in a message 2/14/08:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=114760&perpage=25&highlight=&pagenumber=2
once i was Post #37
priviliged to be able to restore from scratch a sansui AU 717
TALK ABOUT AMPLIFIER ......
no matter how much you pay no amplfier this day is made like that
__________________
SERVICE Ç×ÇÔÉÊÙÍ - ÉÁÐÙÍÉÊÙÍ ÌÇ×ÁÍÇÌÁÔÙÍ Ç×ÏÕ www.eastelectronics.gr
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=114760&perpage=25&highlight=&pagenumber=2
once i was Post #37
priviliged to be able to restore from scratch a sansui AU 717
TALK ABOUT AMPLIFIER ......
no matter how much you pay no amplfier this day is made like that
__________________
SERVICE Ç×ÇÔÉÊÙÍ - ÉÁÐÙÍÉÊÙÍ ÌÇ×ÁÍÇÌÁÔÙÍ Ç×ÏÕ www.eastelectronics.gr
well
it seems that you didnt get the point ....
-----i am totaly against buing this kind of amps from e bay ...or else sinse the amplifier will suffer more or less from the same problems ...might work but not for full power not for long time
----then again i will go for an upgrade of any japanese amplifier ... we both sare the same opinion that AU 717 is by far better than a5 .... ok then ... no probs
best regards sakis
BeatleFred said:
it seems that you didnt get the point ....
-----i am totaly against buing this kind of amps from e bay ...or else sinse the amplifier will suffer more or less from the same problems ...might work but not for full power not for long time
----then again i will go for an upgrade of any japanese amplifier ... we both sare the same opinion that AU 717 is by far better than a5 .... ok then ... no probs
best regards sakis
dangus said:
"If it ain't broke, fix it until it is" -- if the Sansui has a working power transformer and the case isn't beat to death, then you are already ahead of the game.
I've retrofitted Pioneer and Yamaha gear from the late 1970's with modern drivers and everything from Lateral MOSFET, Darlington and MJ15003/4 output stages using the national semi driver chips. my favorite mod is the pioneer receiver with an LM4702 driver board and lateral MOSFETs -- I had it sitting on the floor of the living room and cranked it up for an audiophile friend -- he was staggered by how good a 1970's receiver could sound.
If you search a bit, PansonHK has some driver boards which use these national chips -- they don't take up a lot of space.
I picked up another Pioneer receiver in the Millburn Town Dump 2 weeks ago...
how old are you ????
i am 43 ....not that old ....i think ....but still i find the sonics produced from a very well repaired or upgraded amplifier like the above simply unbeatable.... compaired to many "modern" amps .... twice as match if compaired to french fry or chip if you like ....
is this a question of opinion ....???? well not exactly.... i would say its a question of readings .... of 40khz square wave easily delivered at full power in a resistive load from an old AU717 ....
to me that says a lot ....
jackinnj said:
i am 43 ....not that old ....i think ....but still i find the sonics produced from a very well repaired or upgraded amplifier like the above simply unbeatable.... compaired to many "modern" amps .... twice as match if compaired to french fry or chip if you like ....
is this a question of opinion ....???? well not exactly.... i would say its a question of readings .... of 40khz square wave easily delivered at full power in a resistive load from an old AU717 ....
to me that says a lot ....
Hello
I have just found two vintage receivers, a Sansui 500A tube receiver, and a Pioneer SX-828 receiver.
I founded the Sansui 500A schematic, and I will look for the schematic for the Pioneer. I will check both of them, fix and recap them.
They are both built like a tank, very fine workmanship.
Anybody did eard those receiver ?
Thank
Bye
Gaetan
I have just found two vintage receivers, a Sansui 500A tube receiver, and a Pioneer SX-828 receiver.
I founded the Sansui 500A schematic, and I will look for the schematic for the Pioneer. I will check both of them, fix and recap them.
They are both built like a tank, very fine workmanship.
Anybody did eard those receiver ?
Thank
Bye
Gaetan
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