OK...So What The heck Should I Do With These?

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I'm an incurable lurker on here who really hasn't learned enough yet. I spend A LOT of time reading about other people's experiments with different driver's and enclosures while I haven't finished my first set of speakers (Solo 103s with a pair of Fostex 107Es I got on clearance at Madisound).

Anywaaaaayyy...wifey sits and pretends she can tolerate listening to a lot of my obsessive audio related blah blah blah and is sweet enough to buy me a gift certificate to Madisound for Xmas and some Aurasound speakers they had on clearance that I was sort of ranting about.

Unfortunately the ones I had read about ( NS4-255-8A and NS4-194-8A) that others were talking of experimenting with in the Frugalhorn MK3 or other designs were sold out already. So Madisound said they would send her something similar.

I ended up with 8 of these:

https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8993

I'm posting here since these speakers are technically listed and sold as full range drivers.

It doesn't make sense to send them back. Soooo...even though I can't design speakers and barely understand anything about T/S parameters, I think any of the BLH enclosures I was interested in experimenting with are not applicable here. Mainly because the T/S parameters of the speaker used in those designs appear to be completely different from these speakers.

My original plan was that I would eventually build a few sets of full range speakers that I could eventually use to experiment with a Home Theatre system...I'm still living with a stereo system and it gave me an excuse to build more than one set of speakers ;) I thought the Solos I'm building might be flipped on their sides and used as a center channel along with some horn enclosures for the 206Es I have waiting on a shelf, and something different for the rear speakers (maybe Vampyrs, Frugals or who knows what). The idea was to start small and work up to the bigger more complex designs.

My first impression of these little speakers is that they might be nice used for a smaller set of HT speakers. Something that might migrate from the living room to the bedroom eventually? Maybe paired two per cabinet, if that is even possible? But perhaps they need a tweeter since the data sheet says they're only really good up to 10kHz if I understand it correctly?

I like the sound of the MTM type cabinets that are incorporated into my old KEF 104/2s very much. Mimicking that design might be interesting if these little drivers would be lacking by themselves in some kind of HT system.

I did a simple check on the HIFi Speaker Design website. They have a calculator that recommends enclosure types based on Fs and Qes data and the calculator there says these speakers are better suited for a vented enclosure. Having to vent the enclosure might make it difficult to maintain a perfectly symetrical design which I hoped might be possible so that a fifth speaker could be flipped on its side as a center channel.

I am not sure pursuing an MTM is advisable since I thought I read somewhere on Zaph's website or elsewhere that flipping an MTM on its side for HT use wasn't a good idea, maybe because the tweeter in his design was offset from the center line of the speaker? I can't remember now, or find the reference again.

I might have to come up with something else for a center channel anyway as I don't have a fifth pair of these right now. I have already eyed a cheap 8" driver for a band pass subwoofer box on sale if I do decide to go ahead with a HT system with these.

So how about it? Feedback, suggestions, designs? Happy Holidays!!!
 
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LOL...yeah, it took me like four trys to get it right...just kept putting in a reason since I thought the moderators wanted one. It wasn't allowing me to just cut and paste the page info from my browser without messing the link up with quotation marks and the like.

Yeah, I wasn't expecting any bass from these really. The data sheet didn"t seem similar at all to some of the Fostex drivers that tend to work well in the BLH designs I've spent time reading about even to my completely inexperienced eyes and mind.

Why would they work much better four to a cabinet rather than just two? It would be nicer to come up with a way to get the four cabinets out of the total of eight drivers I got so I could play with the HT idea as I mentioned.

Thanks for the feedback.

P.S. Are you thinking along the lines of a small line array?
 
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6L6

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You could use 2 per box. It would also be 8ohm! About .2ft sealed. I suggested 4 in a box to keep the amount of woodworking down and the efficiency up... :)

If you do use 4 in a box, making a 'square' of drivers will have far less combing problems than a row. A row of 4 on it's side is about the worst arrangement.

2 in a box right next to each other is a good way to proceed.
 
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Wow...that is a wonderful looking design. It makes me want to try and get enough drivers to be able to do an entire HT system with all the speakers like that.

It does seem like they go through a lot of expense and time to get it to work right with the crossover network though. I wonder what kind of results I could expect with these cheap little drivers without being able to afford anything other than moderately priced components for a passive network?

Another question I have is why would you recommend reversing the cabinet design so the mids are open baffle and the sub sealed?

I noticed there's no specific recommendation of enclosure type on the Madisound site or the data sheet I was able to get.

Any recommendations for a tweeter to match these if I did go this route with these?
 

6L6

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The way the mids are arranged on that DNA speaker are similar to how I would put 4 in a box... Probably not that far apart, however. Get them close, use a small tweeter if you happen to have something at hand (or not) and call it a day.
 
"Another question I have is why would you recommend reversing the cabinet design so the mids are open baffle and the sub sealed?"

once you will hear good open baffle midrange, you will not want to listen to boxy sound
no matter how you construct the box, rear wave will bounce back and affect the membrane again smearing the sound, especially if the rear wall is so close
frankly I do not see why they did not make it open baffle mids in a first place when they went to the trouble making it open baffle bass
to achieve deep open baffle bass is not easy...possible, but not easy hence I recommend to you start with open baffle on mids, since you only need 200 Hz and go for closed box on bass
read everything there is on dick olsher pages about basszilla
and when it comes to the tweeter, there are limitless possibilities
good luck
 
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The way the mids are arranged on that DNA speaker are similar to how I would put 4 in a box... Probably not that far apart, however. Get them close, use a small tweeter if you happen to have something at hand (or not) and call it a day.

What is the science to the actual arrangement on the DNA speakers? The mids are obviously positioned around the tweeter as a center point, yet they are not stacked over each other or laid out in a symmetrical diamond pattern. Does this also help with the combing issue that was mentioned? or does it address something else?

I have some Vifa DX25 tweeters lying around that were purchased in the event that my KEF speakers required replacements. That's about it.

I was trying to figure out how to calculate the efficiency of the speakers I have using the reference efficiency calculator on the HiFi Speaker site. I'm not sure I am using the right type of calculator or entering the correct data. I used the RMS(Pe) data of 20 watts for the first field and came up with .19 as a reference efficiency for these Aurasound speakers. Is this the correct figure when one refers to the speaker's efficiency?
 

6L6

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It's probably a mechanical way to smooth the response, as each mid is a different distance from the respective edges... Symmetry has it's (rather minor, but they exist) problems in baffle response, and the asymmetric layout might have been found to help smooth something out.
 
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Ahhh...yes, I remember reading about speaker placement on the baffle when I was trying to learn more about the use of supra baffles and wave launch recently...I was curious about how the designs I had seen using supra baffles were determining the proper size and shape to use and what they hoped to accomplish with them.

I sort of feel like my questions are evolving here, and I am not quite sure the full range forum is still the place to be asking them...but I can't figure exactly where I would request this thread would be moved to. I guess I will try to stay focused on the Aurasound drivers in question and the fact that I am simply interested in figuring out the best way to try using them.

In my previous post I had also asked about determining the Efficiency of these speakers. I think it is something I need to understand better in order to consider whether I should go through the trouble/expense of a design that adds a properly matched tweeter to these. I read a little bit more about the subject, but I'm not sure it has helped me.

The Sensitivity of the Aurasound speaker is 85dB measured for 1 watt at 1 meter. I found a data sheet for the Vifa DX25s I have lying around and it states a sensitivity of 93.5dB measured the same way, 1W/1m. My understanding of this information is that the tweeter will have a higher output or be a bit louder than the full range Aurasound given the same power input and distance of the listener...and therefore these speakers would not be a good match?

However, neither data sheet tells me what frequency those measurements were taken at and I don't know if that has an affect on my reasoning. I don't even know if that is important or if figuring the Reference Efficiency would be the right thing to do. I find the Reference Efficiency calculator to be associated mainly with webpages discussing subwoofers, and therefore I have no idea if it is the correct tool to evaluate these speakers or how Reference Efficiency differs from talking about Efficiency.

Sorry if this is out of place here. If there is another resource or forum that I should be turning to to deal with these questions, please push me in the right direction.
 

6L6

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This is a fine place to get information...

Tweeters are usually much more efficient than most drivers, so they almost always have a resistor placed in series to reduce the output. The tweeter you have is much more efficient, and will sound extremely bright compared to the aurasound drivers. It will need a resistor.

You ask for the 'best' way to use a driver of this type - it's rather a subjective question, but the most interesting way, IMO, and the one that would give you the most interesting/best sound would just be a big-honkin open baffle. Take a 4'x4' (yes, feet) piece of ply or MDF, stick 4 of the drivers in it, repeat for stereo, and have a listen. It will sound very amazing for what it is. However, the WAF is not just zero, it's negative.

So then we should think about a 'normal' box...

These drivers will never have any bass. So you could use them in a non-critical position... put two in a box, make 4 of them, and you now have a neat array of rear surround speakers for a 7.1 style system.

Put one in a (rather tiny) box, repeat 5 or 7 times, add a good sub, and now you will have a surround system that (because it's tiny) has incredible WAF!

You could put all 8 into a box with 1 of your tweeters and make a big center channel. That might be cool...

If you want the best whack at a hi-fi system make a .5ft^3 box and lay 4 of the drivers out kinda like the DNA speaker (I personally would make them closer) and the tweeter in the center, start the Aurasounds down 1st order at about 4k, let the tweeter up at about 5k, and see what happens.

That said, in order to test them and get a handle on their sound, make some kind of open baffle (a sheet of ply with a hole or 4 in it) and just listen to them for awhile. If they are good, then do something with them. If they are not that good, and you still want to do something, then make some surrounds.
 
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Hi,

They are difficult drivers to use effectively and efficiently except perhaps
in a custom car audio environment where they might suit extremely well.

TBH with cheap drivers they have to suit what you are doing or you will
be essentially wasting your time putting square pegs into round holes.

And that is where the problems arise, not really enough bass for FR,
abd parameters like most car speakers, suited to baffles, not boxes.

I'd suggest 4 a side tall thin 2.5 way towers with a tweeter and separate
bass boxes, possibly passive, or active bass to mid, but such a project is
far from simple, and not worth building if you don't actually want something
like that in the first place.

rgds, sreten.
 
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I am actually intrigued by the idea of utilizing these small "full range" drivers in this proposed manner.

The one thing this seems to have in common with what I began to experiment with is the idea that it attempts to mimic sound being reproduced from a single point source by clustering the drivers together. Not exactly the same as the full range Fostex drivers I am working with, but interesting none the less.

The simplicity is also a great benefit and I would also have the experience of hearing an open baffle design in something other than a car audio system.

I am going to start as suggested by making up two baffles with four drivers each and leave enough room in the center of the Aura drivers for the possibility of integrating a tweeter, maybe even the Vifa DX25s for experimentation, as I understand that multiplying the number of these Aura drivers effectively increases the efficiency of their output which would help bring it more in line with the very efficient output of the Vifas?

I will have to resolve how these baffles would be integrated into a system and how they should be driven. I currently have a choice of either a Counterpoint SA12 hybrid which is about 80 watts per channel or a pair of Quicksilver Horn Monos which is a push/pull design rated at 25 watts. I have a pair of ASL Wave 8s I bought to experiment with, but I have never been able to solve a problem of noise coming from one of them since I have had them.

I'm not sure how to pull off the experiment with the tweeter...the only crossover equipment I have lying around is an old 3 way active crossover that I never used for a car audio system.

A separate subwoofer system has been in the back of my mind for a while now. I just don't have the money for most of the drivers that appear to be used in the more popular designs I have found on here. Madisound does have an 8" Aura woofer on sale for only $20 that I was looking at. It is supposed to work well in vented cabs and a band pass...I'm just not sure it would really do the job of a subwoofer properly even if I tried to find a design that might use multiple drivers.
 
do not even attempt to run it without tweeter, waste of time
in that arrangement its not meant to work with fullrangers
start with tweeter in the middle, surround it as closely as possible with four mids,
use one cap for tweeter, you can run mids without crossover at first, later maybe one inductor
if you want to later run it from 200Hz up as satellite, with subwoofer, use high pass active or appropriate cap for passive
do not speculate too much, just do it, it will work
good luck!
 
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Hi,

FWIW though more complicated slim 2.5 way towers + subs are somewhat
easier than than a 4 driver OB, and more flexible, generally speaking.

good choice : https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=153&products_id=8352

The Aura 8" seems a good choice, and FWIW would ~ suit one 8" a side
with 4 drivers in a 2.5 way configuration with a low bass/mid point, the
latter is not going to be that cheap in c/o components, though it might
be if you you go for a combination series (mainly) parallel (for BSC) c/o.

The 3 types of drivers indicate to me a passive 3 way with separate
sealed towers, separate bass cubes per channel and a good tweeter.

YMMV but IMO my suggestion is the best use of said cheap drivers.

The fact is only the most skilled designers are good at using cheap drivers.

In this case for reasons that don't make a lot of sense, but they do
given the low cost of the 4 driver midrange array drivers. Personally
I'd use use 4 drivers a side in a 2.5 way to match the 8" Aura, as
OB is going to get a lot more complicated, suiting better drivers.

rgds, sreten.
 
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Hi.

I've got my numbers wrong in the last post, c'est la vie.
I've completely got some things the wrong way round.

However I like the Aura bass unit and the Vifa tweeter.

What I said in the last post needs active or more efficient bass.

rgds, sreten.
 
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Chromenuts, hope you can forgive me for this… but this would be my proposals to the task ahead of you.
It is an important task but fun.


I get the feeling that these speakers are bought with love (boy can I be wrong here, hope not) and that she is disappointed (maybe not showing) as the speakers is not the one she was wished for, my wife did/experienced the same thing some years ago and after a while I did sense her disappointment.


I asked her why she felt that way and it was mainly two reasons,
1. Wrong speakers, and in this case not there fault.
2. I did not seem “very happy” about them.


And the result of this is that she is now only buying “soft” Christmas gifts to me.


I almost forgot.
Have FUN with these speakers, build anything soon (asap so to say) show that you are enjoying this, that was my mistake.

Anyway that is my philosophy of DIY

Come on! Get to the DIY part sometime.
Well, in next post they are…
 
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