dracul said:
Hahahaha. Yes, Dracul it is indeed.
As stated on page one, the goal here is to learn from prior technologies by building a CRT HDTV magnified unit with an enclosed case for direct viewing with the magnification lense.
Then as more knowledge is gathered from the initial project, a step up to creating LCD units using this same premise will be implemented.
Turning a 27" HDTV (which can be purchased for as low $449 from Advent) into a 42"-60" HDTV for just about $100 more is a pretty nice leap forward would'nt you say?
60" HDTV for $549 = Major Breakthrough.
Projecto7 said:
that my friend is a fresnel
if you are loking for larger than 38" ones do a search for "solar ovens" i have seen them as large as 60"
you may think you are moving ahead, but you are just looking behind you while walking backwards...
Yeah, I tried this just for fun. I had a left over fresnel from a broken big screen. I took a 27" Wega and used this fresnel to make it 55" diagonal. I brings new meaning to the term pixelization.
cowanrg said:
I cannot help feeling the same thing ...
screen magnifier is as old as TV itself (and color filters to turn b&w tv into colored one 😀 ). it might work for an old 13" TV viewed by single person. But for a HDTV, it could degrad quality to ordinary ones, if not worse.
the idea of rear projection has been existing since DIY projection started. but it is hard to find a good screen material at a DIY level price.
But keep ideas coming! We might find some solutions here.
18wheeler said:
Thanks wheels.
That's exactly the spirit on which I proposed this project. This whole forum is about finding solutions.
Remember guys, there is ALWAYS a way.
Think of how many people thought you were nuts when you told them you were going to build your own LCD projector........ Then you did it.
i agree 100%, anything can be done. however, by what cost?
i gaurentee you that i could build a HDTV rear or front projector, but it would cost me the same (or more likely) more than what i could buy one for.
this is why i quit this project 1.5 years ago. i built an lcd projector, it worked, then i got a job at an AV store, and realized how crappy it was (even though it was the envy of the forum at the time). i tried to improve upon it, and realized it couldnt be done without sizeable monetary investment.
i gaurentee you that i could build a HDTV rear or front projector, but it would cost me the same (or more likely) more than what i could buy one for.
this is why i quit this project 1.5 years ago. i built an lcd projector, it worked, then i got a job at an AV store, and realized how crappy it was (even though it was the envy of the forum at the time). i tried to improve upon it, and realized it couldnt be done without sizeable monetary investment.
using standard OH, and lcd monitor...
I've seen quite a bit of progress in the LCD/Overhead dept here.
At first I thought people were crazy for tearing apart an monitor, but after looking at YWH's success, and Cruzer's also I'd say HDTV quality is very possible
If I just used my standard FXL Overhead bulb, LCD screen and real screen material, I think that easily qualifies as a better option so for 250 you get a benq lcd, and for 100 a dukane OH
and 50-100 for real screen, thats 500 for HDTV bigscreen
Add a digital cable box for 15 a month, and you're ahead of the curve.
I think magnifiers are a novel thought, but there's a reason why Sony, and the other big screen companies don't use them, they test their new ideas with regular people to decide whether or not it's acceptable to the general public
I was also looking into why Lifter went to CRT, and from the specs I'm seeing you would need at least 1000 for a good working crt(i'd rather just pay the 2000 for a 55" hdtv myself)😉
I've seen quite a bit of progress in the LCD/Overhead dept here.
At first I thought people were crazy for tearing apart an monitor, but after looking at YWH's success, and Cruzer's also I'd say HDTV quality is very possible
If I just used my standard FXL Overhead bulb, LCD screen and real screen material, I think that easily qualifies as a better option so for 250 you get a benq lcd, and for 100 a dukane OH
and 50-100 for real screen, thats 500 for HDTV bigscreen
Add a digital cable box for 15 a month, and you're ahead of the curve.
I think magnifiers are a novel thought, but there's a reason why Sony, and the other big screen companies don't use them, they test their new ideas with regular people to decide whether or not it's acceptable to the general public
I was also looking into why Lifter went to CRT, and from the specs I'm seeing you would need at least 1000 for a good working crt(i'd rather just pay the 2000 for a 55" hdtv myself)😉
Hey Greg,
Nice insights there, I agree with you on many of them including the very real ability to do HD.
I'd also like to add another perspective:
Companies like Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic, etc. are all large faceless corporations with one intent in mind..... To make A LOT of money.
No matter what type of market research these companies do, even if people liked the magnifiers uses and were willing to buy it, these companies still would not put them out. You know why? Becuase they won't make any money on them. Think about it, why would a Major corporation give up $1,500+ on a unit to sell a magnifier for $35? These companies would'nt even put the product in the public eye because people would indeed find a use for it and people like you and me would find a way to improve on it and then the Big Screen sector of the industry is kaput.
They are'nt going to allow this to happen.
Then think about this...... The average person does'nt even know what HDTV is yet (believe it or not) nor do MANY people have one yet. We're talking a very low percentage. A lot of people don't even care about HDTV, they just want to watch TV. Still, many of these same people would LOVE to be able to have a theater experience at home and pay little for it. Just image if more people than you and I and the rest here knew about building their own projection big screen TV for next to nothing? The big screen sector would be in for major losses. Part of that realization comes seeing companies like Maxtheater and how much they are making off of their crap, and they would sell even more if their product was actually any good. Imagine if the public at large knew what we know? It would create a dent in the big screen market. I'm not saying it would be the end, but there would definitely be a dent.
Regarding the projects I proposed, one of the ideas is to create a shielded enclosing widescreen magnifying device that fits in front and over an HDTV with 16:9 switch capability (Advent 27" HDTV, $449).
The total cost for this project would'nt even exceed $600 and it is possible to do. The roadblock is finding the right material to make it happen and that's where I am with the research because this lense is going to have to be specially cut and fitted.
If it fails, it fails. But if it succeeds, we're on to something that's going to save us quite a bit of money.
Nice insights there, I agree with you on many of them including the very real ability to do HD.
I'd also like to add another perspective:
Companies like Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic, etc. are all large faceless corporations with one intent in mind..... To make A LOT of money.
No matter what type of market research these companies do, even if people liked the magnifiers uses and were willing to buy it, these companies still would not put them out. You know why? Becuase they won't make any money on them. Think about it, why would a Major corporation give up $1,500+ on a unit to sell a magnifier for $35? These companies would'nt even put the product in the public eye because people would indeed find a use for it and people like you and me would find a way to improve on it and then the Big Screen sector of the industry is kaput.
They are'nt going to allow this to happen.
Then think about this...... The average person does'nt even know what HDTV is yet (believe it or not) nor do MANY people have one yet. We're talking a very low percentage. A lot of people don't even care about HDTV, they just want to watch TV. Still, many of these same people would LOVE to be able to have a theater experience at home and pay little for it. Just image if more people than you and I and the rest here knew about building their own projection big screen TV for next to nothing? The big screen sector would be in for major losses. Part of that realization comes seeing companies like Maxtheater and how much they are making off of their crap, and they would sell even more if their product was actually any good. Imagine if the public at large knew what we know? It would create a dent in the big screen market. I'm not saying it would be the end, but there would definitely be a dent.
Regarding the projects I proposed, one of the ideas is to create a shielded enclosing widescreen magnifying device that fits in front and over an HDTV with 16:9 switch capability (Advent 27" HDTV, $449).
The total cost for this project would'nt even exceed $600 and it is possible to do. The roadblock is finding the right material to make it happen and that's where I am with the research because this lense is going to have to be specially cut and fitted.
If it fails, it fails. But if it succeeds, we're on to something that's going to save us quite a bit of money.
The best thing with that plan is that even if it doesn't work you're still left with a working 27" HDTV.
No matter what type of market research these companies do, even if people liked the magnifiers uses and were willing to buy it, these companies still would not put them out. You know why? Becuase they won't make any money on them. Think about it, why would a Major corporation give up $1,500+ on a unit to sell a magnifier for $35? These companies would'nt even put the product in the public eye because people would indeed find a use for it and people like you and me would find a way to improve on it and then the Big Screen sector of the industry is kaput.
I disagree with Projecto7 's statement . It is such a competitive market out there and if there was a cheap alternative and a company like ie Sony does not put it on the market , their competion will.
And if their competion does not do it, there are thousands of small
Korean or Taiwanese companies that will do so.
You cannot suppress a good idea , if it does exist.
You might as well try and build the 100 MPG carburator.
I disagree with Projecto7 's statement . It is such a competitive market out there and if there was a cheap alternative and a company like ie Sony does not put it on the market , their competion will.
And if their competion does not do it, there are thousands of small
Korean or Taiwanese companies that will do so.
You cannot suppress a good idea , if it does exist.
You might as well try and build the 100 MPG carburator.
Corwes,
Do you actually believe that Sony or any of these major corporations would sell a magnifier for $35 and lose out on $1,500+ on per sale?
If this product did infact work, Sony or any of these companies would'nt even consider selling it because of how much money they would lose out on.
Basically it comes down to this:
A. Make $1,500+ per sale and maintain an extremely wealthy corporation
OR
B. Make $35 per sale of a lense and lose out on a potential of billions?
Which would you choose?
Do you actually believe that Sony or any of these major corporations would sell a magnifier for $35 and lose out on $1,500+ on per sale?
If this product did infact work, Sony or any of these companies would'nt even consider selling it because of how much money they would lose out on.
Basically it comes down to this:
A. Make $1,500+ per sale and maintain an extremely wealthy corporation
OR
B. Make $35 per sale of a lense and lose out on a potential of billions?
Which would you choose?
Look at anything it all over priced, an example, phillips cdm-t bulb cost phillips anbout $10 to make, that includes materials, man labour and machine matenece, the wholesaler buys it for $15 sells to a shop for 25 and the shop normally charges double, there is the wonderful price of $50 for the consumer, as for all of this new idea stuff id be carful about putting too much in here, maybe some big company is in here reading away for new ideas, and i can garentee u that there are ideas around that sony and the rest dont know about, but there are also manny they know that we couldnt posibly know as they are fully ahead with the tech more than the average person, there is tech out there now for the future that u and i dont know, scientists do and big companies like sony, an example is a car manufacturer and this is a fact, car manufacturers design the new models of cars 10 years ahead before they are actually produced, sony and the rest are like this, they have the tech, the money and the science, however they canot think in everything like the rest of the people in the world can as they are a limited number as in new developments, we are the world we are not limited to this but to the money, science and materials, ive got new ideas and probally they are ahead of sony and the rest, we all have but do we have the cash to buy and produce all of this? i certainly dont and i doubt u would either, the only way possible would be the people of this forum to be dedicated to this and to fund it to get a decent funding and science dept going, but how manny in here are so comited? i am are u? putting that aside i think this thread is good and i can see what others are trying to acheive, trying to make somthing out of somthing else designed for a different purpose on the cheap and realy in my eyes that is a science in its own.
Keep up the good work guy's
Trev
Keep up the good work guy's
Trev
Projecto 7
Yes , I do beleive that if this concept worked (which it doesn't)
one of the big TV manufacters with the smallest market share would have incorparated the lens in one of their units and flooded the market with $1000 units (not $35 you still need a to buy a HDTV.) Not only will they get the biggest market share their units will also be cheap to produce ie. MEGA PROFITS ! Similar things did happen in the computer industry.
The unscrupolous love to prey on wishfull thinking logic .
That is why you still see so many 100" TV scams on e-bay and elsewhere.( i know that is not what you are trying to build)
Screen magnifiers has been around for more than 3 decades and why do we not see it in every store? Because the results are crap.
That is the only reason why Sony does not produce it.
This thread had potential but you are going in the totally wrong direction.
Yes , I do beleive that if this concept worked (which it doesn't)
one of the big TV manufacters with the smallest market share would have incorparated the lens in one of their units and flooded the market with $1000 units (not $35 you still need a to buy a HDTV.) Not only will they get the biggest market share their units will also be cheap to produce ie. MEGA PROFITS ! Similar things did happen in the computer industry.
The unscrupolous love to prey on wishfull thinking logic .
That is why you still see so many 100" TV scams on e-bay and elsewhere.( i know that is not what you are trying to build)
Screen magnifiers has been around for more than 3 decades and why do we not see it in every store? Because the results are crap.
That is the only reason why Sony does not produce it.
This thread had potential but you are going in the totally wrong direction.
Gosh Corwes, can't you turn down the gloom meter for just a second?
My idea is NOT just about a screen magnifier, there is more to it. The screen magnification project is being used as a learning tool, not the means to the end.
And the ultimate project DOES work because we are doing it every day. The idea is to be able to project at a short range and conceal the projection like the TV's on the market but for much cheaper, that's the ultimate goal. Once again, the screen magnification is just a side project that will be used as a learning tool.
Every intention for this project can be found on the first page just in case anyone missed it.
Also, I'm sorry Corwes but I just don't agree at all. There is no way any of these companies would be able to get away with selling a screen magnifier for a high price with the knowledge of them on the market. The only way that could ever happen is if no one on planet earth had never heard of a screen magnifier before. Since these objects are known of and known to be very cheap in price there is no way any corporation would risk a controversy by selling one for a ridiculously high price.
Not to mention the fact that A/V corporations like to maintain a certain image quality that selling a screen magnifier would certainly compromise. Unless that magnifier was made of a material that did something that the standard magnifier couldn't there is no way it would fly. That's why screen magnifiers aren't available in stores everywhere.
Could Sony, Toshiba etc perfect it and find ways to sell very low cost big screen TV's? Sure they could. But will they? Absolutely not. Their image quality would be at stake. To reiterate, ONLY if they were able to produce a magnifier that revolutionized the way they were made and could justify the higher price would we ever see them sold by these companies. Otherwise, it's never going to happen.
Comparing the Cardboard TV scam to the screen magnifier "market" if you will, is not a fair comparison. A screen magnifier does what it is meant to do, the cardboard TV scam hypes WAY more than it delivers. Plus, I think people are more willing to part with $22 for a scam like the Maxtheater program because there is a lower risk involved, that's why Maxtheater is so big right now.
My idea is NOT just about a screen magnifier, there is more to it. The screen magnification project is being used as a learning tool, not the means to the end.
And the ultimate project DOES work because we are doing it every day. The idea is to be able to project at a short range and conceal the projection like the TV's on the market but for much cheaper, that's the ultimate goal. Once again, the screen magnification is just a side project that will be used as a learning tool.
Every intention for this project can be found on the first page just in case anyone missed it.
Also, I'm sorry Corwes but I just don't agree at all. There is no way any of these companies would be able to get away with selling a screen magnifier for a high price with the knowledge of them on the market. The only way that could ever happen is if no one on planet earth had never heard of a screen magnifier before. Since these objects are known of and known to be very cheap in price there is no way any corporation would risk a controversy by selling one for a ridiculously high price.
Not to mention the fact that A/V corporations like to maintain a certain image quality that selling a screen magnifier would certainly compromise. Unless that magnifier was made of a material that did something that the standard magnifier couldn't there is no way it would fly. That's why screen magnifiers aren't available in stores everywhere.
Could Sony, Toshiba etc perfect it and find ways to sell very low cost big screen TV's? Sure they could. But will they? Absolutely not. Their image quality would be at stake. To reiterate, ONLY if they were able to produce a magnifier that revolutionized the way they were made and could justify the higher price would we ever see them sold by these companies. Otherwise, it's never going to happen.
Comparing the Cardboard TV scam to the screen magnifier "market" if you will, is not a fair comparison. A screen magnifier does what it is meant to do, the cardboard TV scam hypes WAY more than it delivers. Plus, I think people are more willing to part with $22 for a scam like the Maxtheater program because there is a lower risk involved, that's why Maxtheater is so big right now.
The proposed ideas you have in mind Projecto7 are way beyond the scope of this board. Large lcd hdtv screens over 40" have already been created and CRT is a very old invention nearinng it's end. And even if you wanted to build those things you would need a multimillion dollar fab plant and research lab to have the equipment and the proper environment to build it, you'd also probably need a phd or equivelent to even figure out how to do it. Unless you are talking about Video Walls wich have also been invented and mentioned on one of the previous posts, then all you can do now is dream about it.
i recon wait 10yrs the tech of today will be laughed at and nothing will be under 40" and thicker than toast
trev
trev
Projecto 7
I did try to say that they will sell a TV plus magnifier for a $ 1000
and not just the magnifier , but I can see that we will not be able to convince each other .
Yes maybe my "GLOOM" is against the spirit of a brain storming exercise . One is supposed write down all the ideas and not make any comments until you have enough ideas on the table . This will encourage a free flow of ideas. Once you have enough ideas one can argue about the merits of each.
I did try to say that they will sell a TV plus magnifier for a $ 1000
and not just the magnifier , but I can see that we will not be able to convince each other .
Yes maybe my "GLOOM" is against the spirit of a brain storming exercise . One is supposed write down all the ideas and not make any comments until you have enough ideas on the table . This will encourage a free flow of ideas. Once you have enough ideas one can argue about the merits of each.
I remember there was a guy/gal who made a big screen (maybe 27-60 inches) using the "100tv" idea but modified.Some one posted the link here... a WHILE ago ,it showed a CRT projected on a desktop table i think the person was using mirrors or something, but it looked NICE it was a LARGE screen which looked relatively easy to do by our standards and cheap as well, using optics i think we CAN make HDTV 40 inched screens and higher, but will take more space that the lcd route...this is a GREAT idea...but its not for everyone I'll stick to my LCD route,LCd projectors are better(IMO) but they suck in video games...I only use them to watch tv..
I dont think million dollar labs should even be mentioned...if anything involving such HIGH$$$ they shouldnt even be considered...lol
If anyone can find that desktop projector link that'd be great 🙂
ND!
oh yeah, also you said 449$ or 600$ for that price you can just buy a CRT proj or a used big screen.I know someone who paid 200$ for a 2500x5000 CRT on ebay, since CRTs last 10,000 (typical) its better to use a CRT prj thena CRT HDTV tv ..in theory..
I dont think million dollar labs should even be mentioned...if anything involving such HIGH$$$ they shouldnt even be considered...lol
If anyone can find that desktop projector link that'd be great 🙂
ND!
oh yeah, also you said 449$ or 600$ for that price you can just buy a CRT proj or a used big screen.I know someone who paid 200$ for a 2500x5000 CRT on ebay, since CRTs last 10,000 (typical) its better to use a CRT prj thena CRT HDTV tv ..in theory..
- Status
- Not open for further replies.