A friend of mine had a few thousand feet of surplus high quality microphone wire. I've read posts here and elsewhere that say this can be the basis for high quality speaker cables, since mic wire has very good shielding. My friend did the 6 wire DIY braiding method and gave me a couple 8 foot lengths of completed cable, which I finished with some excellent banana connectors, some woven poly sheaths, and heat shrink to tie it all together.
The problem: I've noticed that speakers hooked up with this wire demonstrate some odd effects. It's hard to describe but it's like an intermittent clicking or popping. I have a failed volume control on an old preamp that starts injecting a similar noise when I go past one-third on the dial. It's very short duration and almost subliminal, but once I notice it then it doesn't go away. There's no pattern to it but I think it's related to transients in the music because it's usually at the attack side of a given sound and not the decay. It's almost like tiny bursts of DC are getting injected into the sound.
I'd hate to waste this cable. Is there any kind of test I can run to find out whats happening here, and is there anything I can try doing that might help the sound?
The problem: I've noticed that speakers hooked up with this wire demonstrate some odd effects. It's hard to describe but it's like an intermittent clicking or popping. I have a failed volume control on an old preamp that starts injecting a similar noise when I go past one-third on the dial. It's very short duration and almost subliminal, but once I notice it then it doesn't go away. There's no pattern to it but I think it's related to transients in the music because it's usually at the attack side of a given sound and not the decay. It's almost like tiny bursts of DC are getting injected into the sound.
I'd hate to waste this cable. Is there any kind of test I can run to find out whats happening here, and is there anything I can try doing that might help the sound?
Measure the capacitance. Braiding increases the capacitance and it could be causing the amplifier to oscillate. But then 8 feet isn't very long, even with the extra capacitance of braiding.
You say the cable has six wires - what's the size (AWG) of each wire? How exactly are they connected at each end? What exactly is the "6 wire DIY braiding method?" Telling us the model amplifier and speakers may help as well.
You say the cable has six wires - what's the size (AWG) of each wire? How exactly are they connected at each end? What exactly is the "6 wire DIY braiding method?" Telling us the model amplifier and speakers may help as well.
I don't know the AWG of the wires. They're connected to banana plugs. Here's the "6 wire DIY braiding method":
https://www.diyaudioprojects.com/Power/DIY-Braided-Speaker-Cables/
I tried measuring the capacitance using a Peak Tools capacitor checker, and also a B&K model 815, no value returned. I'm sure I'm doing it wrong. Is there a "proper" way to do it?
Equipment tried:
NAD 1240 preamp, 2150 amplifier
Carver C-1 preamp, M4.0t amplifier
Klipsch KG2, Polk Monitor 7b, Magnepan MG-12 speakers.
The clicking with the Magnepans was so pronounced that I thought the panels had severe de-lamination. The sound is like broken glass in my forebrain.
https://www.diyaudioprojects.com/Power/DIY-Braided-Speaker-Cables/
I tried measuring the capacitance using a Peak Tools capacitor checker, and also a B&K model 815, no value returned. I'm sure I'm doing it wrong. Is there a "proper" way to do it?
Equipment tried:
NAD 1240 preamp, 2150 amplifier
Carver C-1 preamp, M4.0t amplifier
Klipsch KG2, Polk Monitor 7b, Magnepan MG-12 speakers.
The clicking with the Magnepans was so pronounced that I thought the panels had severe de-lamination. The sound is like broken glass in my forebrain.
This could be your amplifier's current limiting circuits being triggered.
Possibly caused by intermittent shorting between the conductors and/or at the connectors.
If this continues, the amplifier could be damaged.
Possibly caused by intermittent shorting between the conductors and/or at the connectors.
If this continues, the amplifier could be damaged.
First turn off the amplifier and disconnect the wires at the amplifier end.
Leave the other end of the wire connected to the speaker system.
Connect your DVM (set to ohms or diode function) to the wire, one channel at a time.
Watch the DVM as you move the cable around and flex it throughout its length.
If the DVM suddenly or briefly reads lower than the woofer DC resistance, there's your problem.
If no problem, reverse the wire so the original amplifier end is now connected to the speaker,
and repeat the above.
If these wires are enamel coated, the short could be anywhere.
If they have plastic insulation, it's more likely that the problem is at one of the connectors.
Leave the other end of the wire connected to the speaker system.
Connect your DVM (set to ohms or diode function) to the wire, one channel at a time.
Watch the DVM as you move the cable around and flex it throughout its length.
If the DVM suddenly or briefly reads lower than the woofer DC resistance, there's your problem.
If no problem, reverse the wire so the original amplifier end is now connected to the speaker,
and repeat the above.
If these wires are enamel coated, the short could be anywhere.
If they have plastic insulation, it's more likely that the problem is at one of the connectors.
I've heard of amps having a meltdown when connected to the old multi twisted pair CAT5 cable recipe.
jeff
jeff
Many ss amplifiers have limited stability with a capacitive load.
If the speaker wires do not seem to have intermittent shorts, you may have to assume
that your amplifier cannot drive their load capacitance.
I do find the claim of only 1pF per foot capacitance for these wires rather difficult to believe.
The weaving does cancel some of their inductance, but it magnifies their capacitance.
If the speaker wires do not seem to have intermittent shorts, you may have to assume
that your amplifier cannot drive their load capacitance.
I do find the claim of only 1pF per foot capacitance for these wires rather difficult to believe.
The weaving does cancel some of their inductance, but it magnifies their capacitance.
Go to your local hardware store or Home Depot and buy some 10 or 12 gauge speaker wire. Even 14 gauge would be fine.
Get rid of all that unnecessary and detrimental capacitance with all those twisted pairs, which do nothing to improve the sound quality but cause problems instead.
Yes it was! But it was a pro installer using it for PA-style speakers in a beauty salon whole-shop sound install, not running it to some Wilsons off a Krell amp or anything special. The speakers were 8 inch in-celing gizmos with the transformer on the back.
Still, I just kept shaking my head and holding the ladder for the guy, my friend who got me started in hifi four decades ago.
Still, I just kept shaking my head and holding the ladder for the guy, my friend who got me started in hifi four decades ago.
At what point did the multi-braids fall out of favor? I read about them 5 years ago and it seemed like they were the "in thing for the now crowd". I don't follow trends but I do like to try things. But I'm just happy with 30 year old Monster cable 1.2, I don't need anything special.
When the Polk Audio Cobra Cables blew up people's amplifiers back in the 70s.
Said to have capacitance of about 1500pF per meter.
Of course, some of the problems could have been shorts between conductors,
which can happen with rough handling, or from walking on them.
But the ss amplifier designers back then didn't know much about stability into a capacitive load.
Said to have capacitance of about 1500pF per meter.
Of course, some of the problems could have been shorts between conductors,
which can happen with rough handling, or from walking on them.
But the ss amplifier designers back then didn't know much about stability into a capacitive load.
I had a few extra minutes so I tried your DMM test. Hooked to one Klipsch KG2 I started at the amp end (disconnected from the amp and hooked to the DMM) started bending the cable, moving towards the center. By the time I got to the middle I was seeing jumps and dips of about 1.5 ohms. It got worse the closer I got to the speaker.
Then I pulled the speaker end and hooked the DMM up to the connectors at each end for half the wire. It barely moved 1/10 of an ohm. So I need to replace the jacks on the KG2, but I'd already planned to refurb it. Yet thats not the trouble - with better premade cables hooked to that speaker I don't get the clicking broken glass sound.
I'll experiment more with this later, after dinner.
Then I pulled the speaker end and hooked the DMM up to the connectors at each end for half the wire. It barely moved 1/10 of an ohm. So I need to replace the jacks on the KG2, but I'd already planned to refurb it. Yet thats not the trouble - with better premade cables hooked to that speaker I don't get the clicking broken glass sound.
I'll experiment more with this later, after dinner.
What's the point of running heavy gage wire for speakers that might be consuming a watt or two?
jeff
I get it, but it was still a real wrenching thing to see, when I was used to that heavy gauge wire. At the time (25 years ago) I didn't understand PA at all. Those transformers were a mystery, and 70V or whatever it was just didn't compute.