Today I stumbled across an advert from a hifi retailer, which has left me amused and somewhat speechless.
QUOTE:
“We have specially purchased a Nordost VIDAR cable burn in machine to offer this service on its cables. We all know that it can take time before your new cable begins to perform at its best. Nordost have developed the VIDAR burn in machine, which helps new and old cables on their way to optimum performance. We can burn in RCA, XLR and BNC interconnects and digital links as well as spade and/or banana terminated speaker cables. We can also burn in DIN to RCA tone arm cables, which normally take a lot longer to get to their very best. We also can revitalise your favourite cable with a burn-in.”
Maybe it’s just me that’s missing out, as I have not formally burnt in my cables and connectors, or had them re-burnt to restore them to optimum performance.
Hmmm - I wonder if a naked flame would do the same trick
GV
QUOTE:
“We have specially purchased a Nordost VIDAR cable burn in machine to offer this service on its cables. We all know that it can take time before your new cable begins to perform at its best. Nordost have developed the VIDAR burn in machine, which helps new and old cables on their way to optimum performance. We can burn in RCA, XLR and BNC interconnects and digital links as well as spade and/or banana terminated speaker cables. We can also burn in DIN to RCA tone arm cables, which normally take a lot longer to get to their very best. We also can revitalise your favourite cable with a burn-in.”
Maybe it’s just me that’s missing out, as I have not formally burnt in my cables and connectors, or had them re-burnt to restore them to optimum performance.
Hmmm - I wonder if a naked flame would do the same trick
GV
I don't know about cable connects, but credit cards can benefit tremendously from such treatment. I will be happy to provide an address if there is sufficient interest from members here. Any card, from any issuer, can be custom burned by me, my wife, and children at literally thousands of locations around the globe, from luxury resorts and top notch restaurants, to the finest in entertainment and shopping from Buenos Aires to Beijing! YOU never have to leave your home!!
Maybe audiogon with their unquestionable: "no criticism of ludicrous claims permitted policy" is closer to the ideal of one who considers such questioning apparently outright trolling.
I had thought that this forum was at one time a domain were "voodoo" claims had very little chance to exist.
But over the last few month I had noticed a slide into the religion of the "undoubted efficay of any tweaks".
Sad to see the demise of scepticism.
This is one of those subjects that can be poked at!
However, I wonder about this. In electrical wiring for a house let's say, If you use 14 AWG wiring (15 amps) and just for the sake of an argument, you have no breaker. Then you draw 20 amps through it. Eventually you have to change the wire (if you don't burn it first) because it actually goes through physical changes. I have also seen old 14 gauge wire that is 50 years old and used contstantly need to be changed.
So maybe at a smaller level physical changes do occur on our audio cables too. Probably nothing measureable (yet) but very possible. When electrons change from atom to atom or molecule to molecule for a long time, who knows what subtle changes may occur. I wouldn't doubt that the cables get less brassy. Hey Caps burn in, resistors burn in, tubes burn in, why not high quality cables?
Don't beat this to death, I just think this may be a possibility.
Hi Sy, what are you doing for your next amp festival? (referring to another thread like this) I hope all is well!
Regards//Keith
However, I wonder about this. In electrical wiring for a house let's say, If you use 14 AWG wiring (15 amps) and just for the sake of an argument, you have no breaker. Then you draw 20 amps through it. Eventually you have to change the wire (if you don't burn it first) because it actually goes through physical changes. I have also seen old 14 gauge wire that is 50 years old and used contstantly need to be changed.
So maybe at a smaller level physical changes do occur on our audio cables too. Probably nothing measureable (yet) but very possible. When electrons change from atom to atom or molecule to molecule for a long time, who knows what subtle changes may occur. I wouldn't doubt that the cables get less brassy. Hey Caps burn in, resistors burn in, tubes burn in, why not high quality cables?
Don't beat this to death, I just think this may be a possibility.
Hi Sy, what are you doing for your next amp festival? (referring to another thread like this) I hope all is well!
Regards//Keith
Back on topic: it actually makes no sense to talk about electrons going from one atom or molecule to the other. That's completely unphysical. If I could burn every high school textbook that shows little nucleus-electron solar systems, I would- that has caused more fundamental misunderstanding than just about anything else in popular science.
One out of three, anyway.
One out of three, anyway.
I do have to admit the creativity around here when it comes to jokes, far surpasses the creativity when presenting facts!
And that makes these entertaining regardless of my perspective.
Sy, just don't burn my science teachers please, most of them were good guys (keyword being most).
Well Sy, I have some good news and some bad news. I think this forum should settle the Cable issue and the Amp issue at the next Amp festival. Now the bad news, I suggested this on the thread that running like wildfire "Do all audio amplifiers really sound the same?"
It seemss like your amp festival may just be hijacked! Tell your friend to pick a different weekend! LOL
Back on track here... So why would a cap change after burning in and not resistors, tubes and maybe even wires. They all have a common material running through them, metal. Also, why can't there be any physical change in metal after running current through it, even if small, affecting the performance ever so slightly? I really want to understand this!
I am not trying to ask stupid questions, but has anything like this been studied from this angle? I really would like to understand why this phenomenon has been lingering for so long. It can't just be marketing only! I heard a difference several times with cables. And recently, my cheap copper Interconnects sounded better than my cousin's expensive silver ones. We both heard it the same time and could finish sentences for each other. Maybe that is what I wanted, but certainly not what he wanted. So.....???
Or should I just face the fact that a device for burning in wires should also be good for roasting marshmallows so it at least has one good purpose?
Regards//Keith
And that makes these entertaining regardless of my perspective.
Sy, just don't burn my science teachers please, most of them were good guys (keyword being most).
Well Sy, I have some good news and some bad news. I think this forum should settle the Cable issue and the Amp issue at the next Amp festival. Now the bad news, I suggested this on the thread that running like wildfire "Do all audio amplifiers really sound the same?"
It seemss like your amp festival may just be hijacked! Tell your friend to pick a different weekend! LOL
Back on track here... So why would a cap change after burning in and not resistors, tubes and maybe even wires. They all have a common material running through them, metal. Also, why can't there be any physical change in metal after running current through it, even if small, affecting the performance ever so slightly? I really want to understand this!
I am not trying to ask stupid questions, but has anything like this been studied from this angle? I really would like to understand why this phenomenon has been lingering for so long. It can't just be marketing only! I heard a difference several times with cables. And recently, my cheap copper Interconnects sounded better than my cousin's expensive silver ones. We both heard it the same time and could finish sentences for each other. Maybe that is what I wanted, but certainly not what he wanted. So.....???
Or should I just face the fact that a device for burning in wires should also be good for roasting marshmallows so it at least has one good purpose?
Regards//Keith
KP11520 said:
Keith,
When Sy said `Well, one of three anyhow`, he was referring to the vacuum tube. It contains a system that will undergo change as the cathode chemistry matures with use, the vacuum atmosphere stabilizes as the impurities remaining in the anode and other parts continue to boil off the metals under the heat of operation. A new output tube in a fixed bias circuit that is criticasl will often need to be rebiased several times in the first 50 hours, and maybe at 100-200 hours before it really settles in for the long run because of this `burn in`. Components like R`s and C`s do not `burn in`with the exception that wet chemical electrolytic caps can undergo an improvement of oxide insulation layer with DC bias applied after sitting on the shelf, a process known correctly as re-forming.
For the life of me I can't remember all the details but back in 1970 or the early part of '71 I was discussing the postgraduate thesis of a guy doing Mathermatics at Melbourne Uni. He was explaining his reseach and it was something to do with something electrical flowing through copper wire and the effect that cavities/voids in the wire had on the subsequent speed of transmission. (I am uncertain whether to say "charge" "current" or something else. I am being deliberately cautious here as it is not my area of expertise and I don't want to make life more complicated by asserting things that are not true or that I am not certain about.)
But, I CAN disticntly remember him saying that to their surprise the shape of the cavity altered the speed of transmission and that it was similar to the way differnt shapes impede (or easy) the flow of fluids in a tube in the discipline of fluid dynamics. I.e. a tear drop shape with a length/width ratio of 4:1, familar, from classical "streamlining" was less obstructive (if that is the word I want) than a cube, for instance.
Anyway, I accept in advance, any criticism of vagueness on my part and I have no idea of the size of the cavities being tested but this brief conversation has stuck in my mind and always made me a little cautious of pinning my life saving on the assertion that all coppers were equal regardless of temperature/purity/orientation etc. Now, as a general rule, I like my science "hard" rather than the voodoo/black magic variety but there just may be things going on that still need to be explored. I'm going down there in August to see the kids (and watch Essendon play) so I might try and dig up his original paper.
But, I CAN disticntly remember him saying that to their surprise the shape of the cavity altered the speed of transmission and that it was similar to the way differnt shapes impede (or easy) the flow of fluids in a tube in the discipline of fluid dynamics. I.e. a tear drop shape with a length/width ratio of 4:1, familar, from classical "streamlining" was less obstructive (if that is the word I want) than a cube, for instance.
Anyway, I accept in advance, any criticism of vagueness on my part and I have no idea of the size of the cavities being tested but this brief conversation has stuck in my mind and always made me a little cautious of pinning my life saving on the assertion that all coppers were equal regardless of temperature/purity/orientation etc. Now, as a general rule, I like my science "hard" rather than the voodoo/black magic variety but there just may be things going on that still need to be explored. I'm going down there in August to see the kids (and watch Essendon play) so I might try and dig up his original paper.
I picked up a pair of Snell K speakers at the thrift store true
they were a little f***ed up needing a replacement woffer.
Well when I did a google for m21w6-00 (a Vifa woffer) the only
hit I came up with was.
Registered sex offenders in Lombard, Illionois
www.city-data.com/so-Lombard-Illionois.html
they were a little f***ed up needing a replacement woffer.
Well when I did a google for m21w6-00 (a Vifa woffer) the only
hit I came up with was.
Registered sex offenders in Lombard, Illionois
www.city-data.com/so-Lombard-Illionois.html
Jonathan Bright said:
Awesome. thanks. I get new stuff so very little these days. To me, this was a very important little bit of info, it proves my point in a new emergent area of audio cables/conduction I patented recently. It fits 100% with all my other findings. Just another brick in a wall of perfect and supportive data. But the totality is what creates the ring of truth, not the isolated bits.
There are far too many blind folks fondling bits of the elephant preaching they 'know it all' from the one fondled area. If they'd take their blindfolds off and start looking at the elephant in totality, they might actually learn something, heaven forbid.
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