The thick metal in the rear dash is usually double sheet and is very important in sports cars for proper stability. I recommend not doing any major cuts there. Minor cuts are OK if they don't damage the structure. All the custom bandpass solutions that I have done for people with cars like this only involved making the factory speaker holes slightly bigger (and connecting the ports to the cabin through these holes).
On the other hand, rear speakers reduce sound quality considerably because they are at a different distance and sound considerably different from front speakers resulting in destructive interference. A powerful front system with delays produces the imaging and midbass integrity that you will never get with rear speakers. Once we did a car with heavily reinforced door panels and two 6,5" drivers per door and we used too fool people into thinking that the 15" custom bandpass sub was working when it was in fact disconnected just for fun 😀😀😀
On the other hand, rear speakers reduce sound quality considerably because they are at a different distance and sound considerably different from front speakers resulting in destructive interference. A powerful front system with delays produces the imaging and midbass integrity that you will never get with rear speakers. Once we did a car with heavily reinforced door panels and two 6,5" drivers per door and we used too fool people into thinking that the 15" custom bandpass sub was working when it was in fact disconnected just for fun 😀😀😀
we all keep repeating ourselves here and stating the same things over and over. i think flyin11 will have to either get used to the sound being somewhat muflled and dull or at least start trying some of our tips or saving towards new components or we will be here saying the same things again and again.
but it's all good. experimenting with sound and learning is the fun part. Boy, i can remember some of my friends and my first installs and let me tell you we have all come a long long way and learned a lot too.😎
but it's all good. experimenting with sound and learning is the fun part. Boy, i can remember some of my friends and my first installs and let me tell you we have all come a long long way and learned a lot too.😎
Yes, but I still contend if the 6x9 are moving that much the foam baffles will do nothing. Been there did that. They work great in doors/dashes though, if you don't need much bass.
jol50 said:
in that case he still needs to open a vent for the bass to get in some how. the foam baffles will help clean up the 6x9's sound too but the bass will still be trapped if he doesn't let the pressure into the cabin.
by the way, i have always liked IB installs. i had 2 12's in my thunderbird sc on a baffle like yours and the sound went so deep and clean. i loved it until the car broke down and i had it parked and the system got jacked
i'm thinking of doing 1 10" or 12" ADS sub IB through the ski pass in my BMW 3 series. that trunk is a bass trap for sure!
If it is that insulated yeah, needs to vent. I have an American car, lol, and it just had a plastic panel there. I'm sure the seat foam holds a little back but I'm so over-subbed right now it does not matter. Some of the small holes in the rear deck I just slapped peel and stick over. I've been looking hard at the mach5 mj18 and the maw15 for IB and go to a single or pair but not sure I have time to revamp all this, may just try other 12s.
I used the foam backers from crutchfield, they are just light foam formed in a basket. They will not hold powerful bass back. Maybe you know of others that will. I'm sure they help some, depending on how much of a problem it is.
I love IB; you can get any kind of bass you want and I like it deep. Who has room for large ported boxes, not me.
I used the foam backers from crutchfield, they are just light foam formed in a basket. They will not hold powerful bass back. Maybe you know of others that will. I'm sure they help some, depending on how much of a problem it is.
I love IB; you can get any kind of bass you want and I like it deep. Who has room for large ported boxes, not me.
Tried the polyfill today as I changed back boxes and put the sealed one back in. The sealed has a better bass response when you crank up the volume on some songs as with other songs it will sometimes sound like a flat bass response on the ported box (Not the right size chambers for a ported but a good test). Anyways, it doesn't sound good with the poly...Not as deep and clean of bass in the box. So I hate to keep taking the screws out of the speakers on the box cause some of them just turn in the holes cause I have been screwing and unscrewing the screws but I will probably take the poly out tomorrow. I've tried 2 times with the stuff, and it doesn't work with this enclosure. Didn't get a chance to change out the wire and try to fit the tweeters in today but will hopefully be able to do everything with no problems tomorrow morning. I had too much going on today and had to change the oil in the car.
Conclusion seems to be that a ported box would probably work best for me but a bandpass is still a option as it might give me the bass I want even if the trunk is the way it is, I might try it. I'm probably shooting for the custom ported box though. The ported box gave me a little extra bass response. I'm actually beginning to wonder if my amp when it's around 350-400w is actually enough power for these subs. I know I said the RMS was up to 150w per sub but that's the optimum power handling JL has in their chart area on their site but the RMS power range is listed 50-300w on Crutchfield and JL Audio, they just say up to 300 is in the danger zone and you might gain more SPL of 2db output but that's it and not more than around 150w. So, maybe getting a little bit more powerful amp could be a option. They say to get a amp in the RMS range so maybe the speakers aren't getting what they need. I turned the gain on the amp all the way up and did a test and it didn't blow my ears out. Other than a little distortion, it wasn't any more louder or harder hitting than when I turn it down a little bit to where it was before. Maybe a new set of subs that can handle more power, or another amp is the answer. Not sure. Just something I was thinking about...300w max per sub RMS x 2, 600w max...and I usually would probably be around 350-380w into the 2 subs which is 190w per sub.
If you look at the other side of the trunk...Looking at the back seats in the car...I'm sorry, there is no where to do anything with. If you cut something behind the covering of the rear panel and then put the panel back on, it would cover that hole that you just made, defeating the reasoning for doing it in the first place as it would be covering it and air is trapped again. Venting is not going to be a option...I'm sorry....That is out. I'm entertaining other options and have some other stuff to think about. If I get freakin frustrated enough I might just say screw it and go back to the old factory system. I have invested too much into this to do that though but when I get frustrated, I say that's the end of it.
I'll go through tomorrow and hopefully will be successful with the tweeters and will be able to get my highs to my liking at least so that's top priority. Haven't heard anything back on taxes but hopefully will by Monday. I'll keep you updated and thanks for the advice that was given 😎
Conclusion seems to be that a ported box would probably work best for me but a bandpass is still a option as it might give me the bass I want even if the trunk is the way it is, I might try it. I'm probably shooting for the custom ported box though. The ported box gave me a little extra bass response. I'm actually beginning to wonder if my amp when it's around 350-400w is actually enough power for these subs. I know I said the RMS was up to 150w per sub but that's the optimum power handling JL has in their chart area on their site but the RMS power range is listed 50-300w on Crutchfield and JL Audio, they just say up to 300 is in the danger zone and you might gain more SPL of 2db output but that's it and not more than around 150w. So, maybe getting a little bit more powerful amp could be a option. They say to get a amp in the RMS range so maybe the speakers aren't getting what they need. I turned the gain on the amp all the way up and did a test and it didn't blow my ears out. Other than a little distortion, it wasn't any more louder or harder hitting than when I turn it down a little bit to where it was before. Maybe a new set of subs that can handle more power, or another amp is the answer. Not sure. Just something I was thinking about...300w max per sub RMS x 2, 600w max...and I usually would probably be around 350-380w into the 2 subs which is 190w per sub.
If you look at the other side of the trunk...Looking at the back seats in the car...I'm sorry, there is no where to do anything with. If you cut something behind the covering of the rear panel and then put the panel back on, it would cover that hole that you just made, defeating the reasoning for doing it in the first place as it would be covering it and air is trapped again. Venting is not going to be a option...I'm sorry....That is out. I'm entertaining other options and have some other stuff to think about. If I get freakin frustrated enough I might just say screw it and go back to the old factory system. I have invested too much into this to do that though but when I get frustrated, I say that's the end of it.
I'll go through tomorrow and hopefully will be successful with the tweeters and will be able to get my highs to my liking at least so that's top priority. Haven't heard anything back on taxes but hopefully will by Monday. I'll keep you updated and thanks for the advice that was given 😎
Max power? Just ignore that, RMS is the only ratings that matter. You can over power subs depending on how you use them. If you do and turn the gain all the way up and crank it like that, they will simply blow up. If you don't let the amp clip and are sensible, use the right enclosure and/or crossovers...you can push a lot of power into a lower rated sub. It still might let go some day.
Hmmm, the poly should make it deeper. It sounding different on different songs is often because it is only making certain frequencies and has a poor response....its not tuned right for your use. I have a P5 sony I test with that sounded so-so in my car, but it went loud and got uglier the louder it went. It is in a new sealed box the size they call for but that is just the way it is. Maybe someone who just wants SPL would like that but it was not my game at all.
Hmmm, the poly should make it deeper. It sounding different on different songs is often because it is only making certain frequencies and has a poor response....its not tuned right for your use. I have a P5 sony I test with that sounded so-so in my car, but it went loud and got uglier the louder it went. It is in a new sealed box the size they call for but that is just the way it is. Maybe someone who just wants SPL would like that but it was not my game at all.
Yeah..I know..That's why I was looking at the RMS ratings again on the subs and it is 50-300w...So, that's up to 600w for 2 subs. If I'm only pushing 190w max into each one, I have room for more power to be pushed into them.
get a bigger amp and subs that can handle it if you arent willing to cut metal, remove rear speakers, vent into cabin or remove plastic and foam...
if you get a new ported box it doesnt necessarily mean it will get louder, port placement in the trunk is very important.
your last option is to get an octave eq like an audio control eqt/eqx/eql and cut the frequencies that dont make it through and boost the ones that do...or maybe you can put hinges on your rear seats and fold them up and down...thats what i do.
or tilt the rear backrest forward about 2 inches so the bass can pass through, this works well.
well man, good luck and dont forget you cant get something for nothing.
if you get a new ported box it doesnt necessarily mean it will get louder, port placement in the trunk is very important.
your last option is to get an octave eq like an audio control eqt/eqx/eql and cut the frequencies that dont make it through and boost the ones that do...or maybe you can put hinges on your rear seats and fold them up and down...thats what i do.
or tilt the rear backrest forward about 2 inches so the bass can pass through, this works well.
well man, good luck and dont forget you cant get something for nothing.
I've been looking around at maybe another amp that will push a little more and it's hard to find one (If I do it's going to be a class D this time to help out my elect system) that's around 600w now. Not many if any out there, I found one by MTX put havent decided anything yet. I did find out I will probably be getting a little over $1,000 back from taxes which is pretty good news but then again I tried to wash clothes last night and the dern washer machine is now broken so I have to go out ASAP and get a new one for anywhere from 250-300 doillars and add that to the credit card that already has about 700 on it from all this audio stuff. All the changing around of different setups has cost me a bit, not mention the new headunit. So, I still might go with the custom box and then maybe do something else later down the road towards summer time. I should be getting a yearly raise at my work in April and we have those 600.00 tax break checks coming from the government here in the U.S. around May. Then again, my car personal propety taxes will be due in June as well. Always something. Atleast I'm not left without anything and do still have a system for now so that's a good thing...Will have to use just about all the 1,000.00 I get back to pay off my credit card though...
"Power estimate loss came from Perry's site under the wire section"
No, he's talking about an example case, which is a bit of an extreme (and he mentions that). It serves to prove his point but is not what occurs typically.
(This is not the same thing as impedance matching)
Again, the typical resistance of speaker wire under normal circumstances, with correct gauge wire is less than most handheld DMMs can even measure.
If you don't believe me measure the voltage drop across the wire using a meter set to AC - it'll be negligible.
To get a better feel for it you can try something like this:
Wire Resistance Per Length & Gauge Calculator
The math follows and you can easily prove it all mathematically for an "engineering sanity check."
No, he's talking about an example case, which is a bit of an extreme (and he mentions that). It serves to prove his point but is not what occurs typically.
(This is not the same thing as impedance matching)
Again, the typical resistance of speaker wire under normal circumstances, with correct gauge wire is less than most handheld DMMs can even measure.
If you don't believe me measure the voltage drop across the wire using a meter set to AC - it'll be negligible.
To get a better feel for it you can try something like this:
Wire Resistance Per Length & Gauge Calculator
The math follows and you can easily prove it all mathematically for an "engineering sanity check."
You can find 600-1,000W RMS amps for <$100 easily unless you are stuck on an expensive brand. I sold a 900wrms kenwood class D in near perfect condition for 100 a while ago, that was 1800w peak if it matters. There are alpine/infinity/etc brands 600rms or better that are not junk amps, though I find it hard to nail down the exact quality of newer amps. I never cared much what I used on subs, they work or they don't IMO long as they are not total junk brand (or fail often or will not do rated power/etc). But I do like to swap amps a lot too until I am happy with one.
In fact the knowledgeable people here could tell you some quality amps to look for that go cheaper used. If you want X expensive amp, you can get one later to replace what you have.
I'll sell you a 1Kw amp really, really cheap if you want to come over and lay under my truck and replace a bad brake line... lol 😀 'Always something' is right, get used to working around that stuff it's good training.
In fact the knowledgeable people here could tell you some quality amps to look for that go cheaper used. If you want X expensive amp, you can get one later to replace what you have.
I'll sell you a 1Kw amp really, really cheap if you want to come over and lay under my truck and replace a bad brake line... lol 😀 'Always something' is right, get used to working around that stuff it's good training.
On most the Alpines that I have seen, they have a max insput sensitivity of 4V...My HU is 5V...Unless you want to pay for a $250.00 Alpine that can handle up to 8V input. Other than that, I have never been really sold on Kenwoods and their new line amps are really big in size. I don't like the big bulky amps...Infinity amps are really long as well..
I'm not jumping the gun here or anything so just looking around maybe for the future...
I'm not jumping the gun here or anything so just looking around maybe for the future...
I would not worry about the voltage on HU, you only could get that with it at max volume and you should never do that. Unless you have a really good HU they usually produce distortion at full output. Turn your amps all the way down, turn the HU all the way up (unless it gets real loud), turn the amps up just enough (I do just the high side amp) to hear it at a moderate volume and see if it sounds nice and clear yet. If so I would still never run the HU all the way, if not then turn down until it is clear then turn it down at least a few numbers more, and set the amps to max out there and never turn it higher unless you have a CD that is recorded at a real low level or something. That is the way I like to set up, you don't want to put any distortion into an amp.
That Kenwood had the two big aluminum plates on the top. The inside was pretty full and I have another 1kw that is full inside and larger yet, it is designed a little differently and can do 1 ohm. Some smaller ones I have seen is the newer alpine MRP-Mxxx, the 450/650 (400/600wrms) are not very big but I really don't know how good they are and there are many amps I have not seen up close. I'm sure others here could suggest if you have specific needs like size/price/brand/quality. A smaller amp may dissipate less heat and then run hotter depending....meaning small is not always good.
That is just IMO, I've never spent a lot on sub amps because I could never tell much difference in sound quality....could always find something reasonable that worked fine. The high side is where I look for more quality but then many say new amps all sound good...but I have one that does not work well IMO.
That Kenwood had the two big aluminum plates on the top. The inside was pretty full and I have another 1kw that is full inside and larger yet, it is designed a little differently and can do 1 ohm. Some smaller ones I have seen is the newer alpine MRP-Mxxx, the 450/650 (400/600wrms) are not very big but I really don't know how good they are and there are many amps I have not seen up close. I'm sure others here could suggest if you have specific needs like size/price/brand/quality. A smaller amp may dissipate less heat and then run hotter depending....meaning small is not always good.
That is just IMO, I've never spent a lot on sub amps because I could never tell much difference in sound quality....could always find something reasonable that worked fine. The high side is where I look for more quality but then many say new amps all sound good...but I have one that does not work well IMO.
I can't really go the new amp route with more power...If I do, I will have to upgrade the alternator as it will be too much current. It's not the amp so I might either go the custom ported enclosure route or look into getting some new 12's. I think these JL's are like the bottom of their totem pole, the best bang for the buck even though they cost me about 160-180 dollars for the pair. I should have gotten something else. I was looking on some stats on subs on Crutchfield and I might look into getting a pair of Boston Acoustics G212-4 as the sensitivity rating is almot 3db higher than the JL's I have and the JL 12W3v3's. "The higher the number, the louder the speakers will play. An efficient speaker helps you maximize your available power." Per Crutchfield's explanation so it ould probably provide the extra thump I would need or I could always still go with 1 15" as 1 Kicker CompVR provides 89.1db but 1 12" Boston Acoustic provides 89.6 so if you have a pair of those I would get more bump for 2 12's than 1 15". Again, I'm in no hurry as I'm just waiting to ge the credit card down some more and waying my options. It's still good that I atleast have a pretty decent system at the moment while I contemplate things...
Hmmm....Asked the guy who would be making a custom ported box for me if the ports are on the front, each side on the front, or on the sides of the box. I asked because I told him the box would be facing the back of the trunk. He said:
"The enclosure has one vent to the right side, the subs and the vent fire in the same direction. Running the subs in the same ported chamber gains you one to two more db of output."
My big question about this is...If you have vents on one side, how is that going to effect the amount of bass you feel? Especially on just the right side. I don't like that setup that much. It doesn't seem to work for me for some reason. I want to feel the impact of it more but not just on the right side of me. Anybody had any experience with boxes like that? I mean, I know the ported enclosures that come from Kicker with subs in them have 1 on each side...I never heard of just 1 total on one side of the box. Funky setup....
"The enclosure has one vent to the right side, the subs and the vent fire in the same direction. Running the subs in the same ported chamber gains you one to two more db of output."
My big question about this is...If you have vents on one side, how is that going to effect the amount of bass you feel? Especially on just the right side. I don't like that setup that much. It doesn't seem to work for me for some reason. I want to feel the impact of it more but not just on the right side of me. Anybody had any experience with boxes like that? I mean, I know the ported enclosures that come from Kicker with subs in them have 1 on each side...I never heard of just 1 total on one side of the box. Funky setup....
It is not directional, either the box will work or it will not. Should not matter how many ports so long as they are large enough and properly tuned. What way they point, really should only matter in SPL and depends on the car.
port location is very important in a trunk car, placed in the wrong location will cause cancellation....for example if you have a box with 2 subs and slot port on the same face down the middle, if you stick your head between the sub and port, this is where it is quietest....the output of the sub and port are out of phase with each other.
port on the side for a trunk box 'usually' works better than others.
the side port will couple with the cars body better, just make sure there is room for it to breath.
port on the side for a trunk box 'usually' works better than others.
the side port will couple with the cars body better, just make sure there is room for it to breath.
I guess I'll just let him do what he feels is best. I'm just paying a lot of money for this box and I don't want to get it and try it and have it sound like junk and I would have just blew away all that money again. Here's a attachment of what I was wanting him to do with the ports. It's hard to see the ports on the front of this example so I circled them in Paint. The circles aren't too thick but I don't have any other program here at my work and I don't see any way to change the size of the line. Is this a bad idea for the location of the ports? Like I said before....I want to FEEL the bass as well as have good sound and I still feel that if it's on the right side only (Not front right) of the box it's not going to work out...
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