Well ok,i thought of using my iphone in order to avoid all the mess with cd players dacs cables etc.
Didn't know that the output was too low.
Anyway, I can hear the bass at low volumes but something is missing in the sound, I guess from the midrange, tweeter is ok.
The speakers sound great with rock music (Hendrix, AC DC,Doors etc but not the same with '80s Heavy Metal.
Is there any way for some improvement ?
Should i start another thread just for the speakers?
Cheers
Didn't know that the output was too low.
Anyway, I can hear the bass at low volumes but something is missing in the sound, I guess from the midrange, tweeter is ok.
The speakers sound great with rock music (Hendrix, AC DC,Doors etc but not the same with '80s Heavy Metal.
Is there any way for some improvement ?
Should i start another thread just for the speakers?
Cheers
Listening with loudness on?
Then there's a few hope for you Dude...you system is really bad.
Or you hand the system...or.....😱
See this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO0uvdJG06E
regards,
Carlos
Then there's a few hope for you Dude...you system is really bad.
Or you hand the system...or.....😱
See this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO0uvdJG06E
regards,
Carlos
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The speaker's lower roll-off of 50Hz is probably fine in the role of studio monitor but in the home, you probably miss the deeper bass of more recent music recordings. You can easily evaluate what's happening or not with bass by patching-in the subwoofer from your HT system - assuming it is a self powered type or I guess you could use a signal output lead connect to the HT receiver and amplify that.
'No need to overblow with bass. You only need subwoofer (sub 50 Hz) frequencies and at almost subliminal levels to add some realism and depth to the audio. It's a simple experiment and you may learn something more about audio and perception without spending anything. Take note of phase though, you may have to switch this at the sub to reinforcement rather than cancellation and set the crossover point appropriately etc.
'No need to overblow with bass. You only need subwoofer (sub 50 Hz) frequencies and at almost subliminal levels to add some realism and depth to the audio. It's a simple experiment and you may learn something more about audio and perception without spending anything. Take note of phase though, you may have to switch this at the sub to reinforcement rather than cancellation and set the crossover point appropriately etc.
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An "iphone"
is about as lo-fi a source as you could possibly use. Everything is wrong with it. MP3/MP4 files may be fine and dandy for a crappy boombox, but even a mediocre mid-fi system wil highlight the shortcomings of such a horrible source in a huge way. Please try your system with a halfway decent CD player and see what the speakers can really cound like.I've had kids tell me that an MP3 source is "perfect." (Some people think CDs are "perfect" too.) I guess if that's all you ever heard, you might think that. I'm old and deaf and even I can clearly hear the severe shortcomings of such a source.
There is nothing wrong with MP3 or MP4/AAC files with a decent bit rate. 128Kbps MP3 is crap. 320Kbps is not.
The iPhone on the other hand is a lousy source... nasty little Class D amp in there designed to drive headphones.
The iPhone on the other hand is a lousy source... nasty little Class D amp in there designed to drive headphones.
Right, you have a good point here "you probably miss the deeper bass of more recent music recordings".
I'm missing a deeper thing, may bass would enhance it.
Cos as I said it is very strange that the sound from '70s recordings is awesome but as I play some modern tunes i'm not satisfied at all.
Let me try them with my AV receiver and i'll let you know
Cheers
To be honest I'm not up to speed on digital source; it is my next frontier. I went to engineering school in the 70s and we built logic circuits using op amps. The only op amps with any promise for audio were the 709 and 318, both expensive and terribly cranky. Then the CA3130/3140 came along which were better, but with their own long list of caveats. But I digress...
I have noticed that some MP4 files sound pretty good on my computer sound system (a compact stereo), but I have never hooked an MP3/4 source up to any of my hi-fi systems. Most MP3/MP4 sources sound terrible even on my computer sound system.
Like I said, it is my next frontier and I think it will be rewarding.
That does sound nasty.
You won't find much program material below 60 Hz on older recordings. It does not always translate very well to vinyl. 😉 There are exceptions, like some Pink Floyd, which we all thought was really groovy back then. (I still do.)
Eddie, bit rate is the key, low bit rates give small files but cut out more information so they sound like s**t. I never go for anything less than 256Kbps on MP3, preferably the max 320Kbps. Likewise, MP4 I like as high a bitrate as possible.
As for your computer, these days they only have onboard audio.. some are OK, some are awful. A decent sound card or an external DAC is the key there.
As for your computer, these days they only have onboard audio.. some are OK, some are awful. A decent sound card or an external DAC is the key there.
I'm aware of this. What I don't know is the "nuts and bolts" that an engineer should know.
I don't have one
It's on my short list. 🙂
Thanks a bunch. I need a "DACS for dummies" tutorial.
Not quite sure what you mean here ?
No one does any more 🙂 On board sound chips are variable. Some are full of noise thats radiated from the rest of the PC's bus activity. They are usually run from the 5V line and capacitively coupled. Some include built in amps for driving headphones that are suspect quality.
Pretty much any external DAC will be an improvement, mainly because they are run from a clean, non-switchmode supply. There's plenty out there as hifi products, kit products or somewhere in between. I'm working on rolling my own as part of a separate pre-amp project.
lol, reading this thread is hilarious if a little depressing...
I don't know what happened to misfits, but what the hell, so he liked the sound more and then complained about it? is he listening with his eyes, his head or his ears?
Eddie - No idea how you kept patience for all those answers, but they were superb!
Jaycee - do you mind if I ask why you say high-bitrate mp3s are ok? my understanding was they're still compressing the data, therefore information is lost. FLAC content makes sense to me...
I have a 'subjective' listening room available for research at the uni, maybe I should set up some reference amps/speakers and we can compare different combinations?
I'd be interested to establish the best digital source format, if there's ANY difference between onboard digital and a dedicated sound card (atm I think there isn't)
And of course compare some dacs for the hell of it. Wonder what the english - based DIYers would think?
I don't know what happened to misfits, but what the hell, so he liked the sound more and then complained about it? is he listening with his eyes, his head or his ears?
Eddie - No idea how you kept patience for all those answers, but they were superb!
Jaycee - do you mind if I ask why you say high-bitrate mp3s are ok? my understanding was they're still compressing the data, therefore information is lost. FLAC content makes sense to me...
I have a 'subjective' listening room available for research at the uni, maybe I should set up some reference amps/speakers and we can compare different combinations?
I'd be interested to establish the best digital source format, if there's ANY difference between onboard digital and a dedicated sound card (atm I think there isn't)
And of course compare some dacs for the hell of it. Wonder what the english - based DIYers would think?
What I mean is that I don't have the knowledge to roll my own. I know linear circuits.
No one does any moreOn board sound chips are variable. Some are full of noise thats radiated from the rest of the PC's bus activity. They are usually run from the 5V line and capacitively coupled. Some include built in amps for driving headphones that are suspect quality.
I know.
I understand this very well. I guess what I meant is that I need a "DACS from Scratch for Dummies 101." However, a tip on a good bang for the buck DAC board that I could include in some of my projects would be cool. 🙂
Like so many consumers, he drank the "tone controls aren't hifi" kool aid. He read it in an uber-fi (snake oil) article and thinks that some talking head knows what he likes better than he does. He thought there was something wrong with his equipment because it needed a little tone tweaking. You see the same mindset here every week.
What value does politically correct hi-fi have if you don't enjoy it? Set it up the way you like it and enjoy listening.
Why thank you. I hope our friend understands his setup a little better. Then my efforts are not wasted.
Most people don't understand sound reinforcement at all. I can do the math in my head. I would like to see consumers understand the equipment the use, unlike the manufacturers that prey on the ignorant.
There is no consumer format that is not compressed. Of course less compression is better if your system can handle it. Many (most) can't.
I am sure there is a way to make an improved dedicated sound card. I am not convinced either that uber-fi sound cards are all they're claimed to be. External has to be better.
I do know that I can get an OEM replacement sound card for my Dell for $9.00 right down the street, so there can't be that much to it.
You're right there. There are thousands of sound cards that, to the extent of demands likely in consumer audio, will sound just fine and even provide all the HT channel feeds or digital interfaces necessary.
When it comes to ultimate fidelity and similar utopian audio dreams we have, the noise levels and earthing issues inside a typical PC usually become a greater concern than sound quality per se and the best easy way of killing the noise is to bypass the PC's card and use an external DAC, optically coupled for galvanic isolation or as I find sufficient, USB connected.
These come in anything from a cheap little $30 plastic box to a very good Chinese aluminium cased, line powered board with fancy DAC chipset of your choice for about $140 all up cost via Epay. Or...some high-end extravagence in a full rack case for thousands of bucks. There are also some nice intermediate Hi-fi products that throw in direct and wireless internet radio, audio streaming etc. if you have the space and the inclination to play for hours with those sources and costs.
They all work great and it's fun for the cost to mess with various resolution digital formats -"up-sampled" ones too. There are many cheap sources of flac (24 bit) audio files that complement MP3 sources - just browse i-tunes even, for a sanitized, mass-market source.
For my eyesight, I've decided to leave the design and build of the PCBs to others, so I buy a kit or whatever and plug everything together and hey, I'm really impressed, right from the get-go. That's the fun part we all like! 🙂.
It's a fact that there are components of an audio waveform that cant be detected by the human ear. That's what lossy compression takes advantage of. However, push the bitrate down too far and it starts removing things you CAN hear. To my own ears, I cannot hear the difference between 256Kbps+ AAC, and the CD from which the original audio came.
If you don't want to risk this, then formats like FLAC are the answer 🙂
I wouldn't agree that most systems cannot handle high bitrate files. I have played 320KBps MP3 files and 200KBps AAC files on a Pentium 3 with no issue. I used to manage 256Kbps MP3 with maybe 1% CPU usage back on a AMD K6-II machine too 🙂
Onboard audio Vs soundcards - depends greatly on how the onboard audio is implemented and how the soundcard is built. Onboard audio is typically built to produce sound cheaply, likewise so are cheap sound cards. Usually this is done with an all in one chip of some kind and very little attention paid to seperating the analogue and digital sides clearly.
However, take a look at a card such as the M-Audio 2496, compared to a 5 buck soundcard. You will see how seperate D/A and A/D converters are used, how there is clear seperation between the analogue and digital sides, an onboard linear regulator is used to get a clean(er) analogue supply, etc...
Digital output... still depends on implementation. SPDIF is very vulnerable to distortion caused by clock jitter. I've seen some awful SPDIF waveforms generated by computers and even some cd players. Low jitter is the key.
If you don't want to risk this, then formats like FLAC are the answer 🙂
I wouldn't agree that most systems cannot handle high bitrate files. I have played 320KBps MP3 files and 200KBps AAC files on a Pentium 3 with no issue. I used to manage 256Kbps MP3 with maybe 1% CPU usage back on a AMD K6-II machine too 🙂
Onboard audio Vs soundcards - depends greatly on how the onboard audio is implemented and how the soundcard is built. Onboard audio is typically built to produce sound cheaply, likewise so are cheap sound cards. Usually this is done with an all in one chip of some kind and very little attention paid to seperating the analogue and digital sides clearly.
However, take a look at a card such as the M-Audio 2496, compared to a 5 buck soundcard. You will see how seperate D/A and A/D converters are used, how there is clear seperation between the analogue and digital sides, an onboard linear regulator is used to get a clean(er) analogue supply, etc...
Digital output... still depends on implementation. SPDIF is very vulnerable to distortion caused by clock jitter. I've seen some awful SPDIF waveforms generated by computers and even some cd players. Low jitter is the key.
My eyesight is going too. I have to wear two pairs of glasses and use a magnifying glass to construct my circuits. My knowledge and ability has increased a thousand fold since college, but my eyesight is 10% of what it once was (I am legally blind in one eye, and can't see out of the other.)
By the way, thanks for the tips. 🙂
I'm referring to the speaker/amplifier combo. 3 dB increase in dynamic range means you need double the power. It adds up fast.
I can slap bigger memory cards and uber-motherboards in just as well as anybody else can. Been there, done that, built a free computer from stuff I found in the alley. 🙂 I did have to pony up for a new monitor, though.
This much I understand quite clearly.
This is what I need to understand better.
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