alright I've built speakers before, and for the most part I've been satisfied with them, for the most part (never satisfied with cosmetics). the last set I built was 10+ years ago and now I want to build a better set for surround sound 5.1. I already bought some speakers. after a lot of reading and researching. I think I may have bought the wrong speakers.
my original goal was to use focal 130a1's for mids and highs use the crossover for those but convert it to a 3way and add 2 8" woofer for the front and center and single 8s for the rears, might be a bit large for some but that's what I want. anyway the problem started when i became aware of my limited knowledge of speaker building. the other speakers I built in the past I use all off the shelf parts crossovers and drivers all bought from radioshack, I still like the way they sound but I want to do better this time.
anyway my thought originally was to use dayton audio rs225's or silver flute w20rc38's both available in 4 and 8 ohms so ending up with 5 4 ohm cabinets would be passable and thats when I started to learn I have no idea what I'm doing.
anyway in short the goal is to use the focals that I already own if possible as I have 4 sets of them and to make 5 compatible speakers that are 3way any insight would be helpful thanks
my original goal was to use focal 130a1's for mids and highs use the crossover for those but convert it to a 3way and add 2 8" woofer for the front and center and single 8s for the rears, might be a bit large for some but that's what I want. anyway the problem started when i became aware of my limited knowledge of speaker building. the other speakers I built in the past I use all off the shelf parts crossovers and drivers all bought from radioshack, I still like the way they sound but I want to do better this time.
anyway my thought originally was to use dayton audio rs225's or silver flute w20rc38's both available in 4 and 8 ohms so ending up with 5 4 ohm cabinets would be passable and thats when I started to learn I have no idea what I'm doing.
anyway in short the goal is to use the focals that I already own if possible as I have 4 sets of them and to make 5 compatible speakers that are 3way any insight would be helpful thanks
Looks like the Focal's are typically used in autos/cars - yes?
Did you consider something like this? A very popular kit from PE:
Overnight Sensations MT Speaker Pair Kit | 300-706
Did you consider something like this? A very popular kit from PE:
Overnight Sensations MT Speaker Pair Kit | 300-706
Last edited:
2g60s, now you'll want to be careful with passive xo's - sure lots of designs out there, on-line calculators, several programs that you can load parameters and then have a good place to start, you'll still have to go back and tweak them, more parts, more money, very time consuming.
Go with Kits!!
However, I see you have an interest in a 8" silver flute, here's a xo for the 8ohm model.
It was okay, gave up on it pretty fast and used really nice crossover "parts".
I think the biggest issue was the box size, needed to be much larger - recommended by other forum folks.
**Still using the tweeter in other setup - it's okay, works fine for HT.
Go with Kits!!
However, I see you have an interest in a 8" silver flute, here's a xo for the 8ohm model.
It was okay, gave up on it pretty fast and used really nice crossover "parts".
I think the biggest issue was the box size, needed to be much larger - recommended by other forum folks.
**Still using the tweeter in other setup - it's okay, works fine for HT.
Attachments
Last edited:
the focals are car speakers and a bit better quality than the drivers in that kit, and I'm looking for larger 3way. and kits to me arnt much of a diy I plan on making my own cabinets from scratch, box design isnt difficult that part of the ts parameters I can understand, its the spl and crossover design that has my think I'm a little out of my league
I think the Focals are better also, but don't know if they work in a HT speaker, could find out with a test box and/or look for a design on line.
The 8" SF is out, it just doesn't go very low, I'm sure you would disappointed.
So the plan is? Focal 2-way(s) with a woofer, what three?
The 8" SF is out, it just doesn't go very low, I'm sure you would disappointed.
So the plan is? Focal 2-way(s) with a woofer, what three?
You could do a prototype box and then buy a design from Madisound for a crossover designed with LEAP. I have not done so, but I believe they have a library of enough drivers they can do something for you without you doing the in-box measurements.
Crossover design is the real magic. Magic in results. It is engineering in execution. If you can MEASURE the impedance and acoustic output you can then use CAD tools like PSDLite to design the crossover.
Have you read all the papers on TrueAudio? (easy to understand) Read about speaker design on Linkwitz? (real engineering speak)
Notice the term "MEASUREMENT" Just like carpentry, measure twice.... You can't design speakers without being able to measure what you are doing. With a PC and some cheap DIY stuff you can do now what cost hundreds of thousands of dollars when I started in this hobby. It is a good day to build speakers.
PS: Glad to see someone want to do a real full range monkey coffin again. Just like the good old days. A nice big floor stander three way can be truly full range, 30 Hz up. You don't have to ask too much from the mid-base like we keep trying to do in bookshelf speakers.
Crossover design is the real magic. Magic in results. It is engineering in execution. If you can MEASURE the impedance and acoustic output you can then use CAD tools like PSDLite to design the crossover.
Have you read all the papers on TrueAudio? (easy to understand) Read about speaker design on Linkwitz? (real engineering speak)
Notice the term "MEASUREMENT" Just like carpentry, measure twice.... You can't design speakers without being able to measure what you are doing. With a PC and some cheap DIY stuff you can do now what cost hundreds of thousands of dollars when I started in this hobby. It is a good day to build speakers.
PS: Glad to see someone want to do a real full range monkey coffin again. Just like the good old days. A nice big floor stander three way can be truly full range, 30 Hz up. You don't have to ask too much from the mid-base like we keep trying to do in bookshelf speakers.
When good desings go bad
Us diy-ers need to stick together; here's a box full of xo boards that sounded good for a while then simply gave me a headache after about 2 weeks.
I think there was about 30 xo/designs/boxes in a couple of years, only two designs remain and really enjoying them.
Point being, it is tricky, mostly engineering, some black magic and finding speakers that work nicely together.
Us diy-ers need to stick together; here's a box full of xo boards that sounded good for a while then simply gave me a headache after about 2 weeks.
I think there was about 30 xo/designs/boxes in a couple of years, only two designs remain and really enjoying them.
Point being, it is tricky, mostly engineering, some black magic and finding speakers that work nicely together.
Attachments
Last edited:
Just to be clear - you have 4 sets of the Focals which include a 5 1/4" mid/woofer, tweeter and the xo for them?
If that's the case and you want to build a 5.1 system, you don't really have to make them 3-ways when the suggested F3 of the mid/woofer is 65Hz. Cross over to the sub(s) around 80 Hz and you'll be all set. Much easier, although there's a chance the existing 2-way xo may not be optimal for baffle step losses when mounted in a cabinet vs mounted in a car door, which would be a little bit more like an infinite baffle.
Now if you really want to turn a 2-way into a 3-way, it's a little bit more complicated. Read these:
DIY FAQ's
2-ways into 3-ways
I think in either case, you are going to have to post the existing xo schematic as a starting point for any chance of success (if that is the case).
If that's the case and you want to build a 5.1 system, you don't really have to make them 3-ways when the suggested F3 of the mid/woofer is 65Hz. Cross over to the sub(s) around 80 Hz and you'll be all set. Much easier, although there's a chance the existing 2-way xo may not be optimal for baffle step losses when mounted in a cabinet vs mounted in a car door, which would be a little bit more like an infinite baffle.
Now if you really want to turn a 2-way into a 3-way, it's a little bit more complicated. Read these:
DIY FAQ's
2-ways into 3-ways
I think in either case, you are going to have to post the existing xo schematic as a starting point for any chance of success (if that is the case).
the initial thought was add some 8in woofers build a simple 2way crossover around 1khz put them in a box call it a day, well a little more in depth then that but that was the jist of it. then it got complicated when I wanted to do dual 8s up front and singles in the back then I started to realize the myriad of problems. you guys have pointed me in some good directions. unfortunately when I look at impedance gaffs my eyes glass over and I get the deer in the headlights look. however I'm nowhere near close to giving up I dont have any test equipment which makes it harder, and i want to double duty the fronts for music so the need for a larger driver is there and I like the look of towers (so does the wife and she likes music as loud or louder than me) (shes a keeper)
ok I"m going to try one problem at a time, or one aspect at a time. using 2 woofers doubles or halfs your impedance, (I understand nominal impedance and wiring) doubles box volume, and adds 3db. does it affect anything else? crossover frequencies etc? I used to be into car audio back in the day that may be hurting me now
That's right. Thinking there is some question what you want to do.
Is this it? [sketch]
There has been success with 2 - 8" SF's in a 3ft3 box, but I didn't like that the SF's 8'' cone is very, very thin.
As mentioned, best to whip up some test boxes to see if the Focal's have potential indoors. Do you have parameters on the 5.25 woofer?
The reason I keep going back to this; pushing buttons in car displays (stores) none ever jump out at me as interesting.
Is this it? [sketch]
There has been success with 2 - 8" SF's in a 3ft3 box, but I didn't like that the SF's 8'' cone is very, very thin.
As mentioned, best to whip up some test boxes to see if the Focal's have potential indoors. Do you have parameters on the 5.25 woofer?
The reason I keep going back to this; pushing buttons in car displays (stores) none ever jump out at me as interesting.
Attachments
with exception of a rear firing port and the thought of mid on top yes
spec sheet on focals
http://www.focal-america.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/130A1.pdf
center speaker would be horizontal with the mid and tweeter in the center
spec sheet on focals
http://www.focal-america.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/130A1.pdf
center speaker would be horizontal with the mid and tweeter in the center
Well its wip-y but doable I guess. WinISD defaulted to a 16.5l box with a small port.
[most small drivers model nicely; smooth, straight line, with gradual roll]
Might be a good idea to make separate "sub bottoms". A lot of DIY-er's are building them; looks nice and gives you a lot of flexibility.
[most small drivers model nicely; smooth, straight line, with gradual roll]
Might be a good idea to make separate "sub bottoms". A lot of DIY-er's are building them; looks nice and gives you a lot of flexibility.
Attachments
I had debated on a sub bottom, but wanting a matching center speaker took that option out. a .58cf ported box is easily doable for a cabinet in a cabinet.
pardon my ignorance but graphs are a language I have not grasped yet so I'm not sure if that is good or bad
pardon my ignorance but graphs are a language I have not grasped yet so I'm not sure if that is good or bad
for the rears, the more I think about it just a simple 2way is probably better/easier than trying to do a smaller 3way
That's bad....lol
Not much to it, its simple enough, the good new is the speaker will go down to 50hz in a smallish box - I'd be running to the bank with that one.
I'm a little worried that the car speakers will sound a bit thin or cold inside a house.
Not much to it, its simple enough, the good new is the speaker will go down to 50hz in a smallish box - I'd be running to the bank with that one.
I'm a little worried that the car speakers will sound a bit thin or cold inside a house.
oddly I did not see that.
a 1cf bod does seem a bit large to stuff in a cabinet.
I think I'm going to try the .58cf ported and see what they sound like. however I'm starting to realize I may have flubbed up with the focals
that will be a weekend project I think.
as for if they do end up sounding good, or at least to my liking....
well let me see how they sound first....
a 1cf bod does seem a bit large to stuff in a cabinet.
I think I'm going to try the .58cf ported and see what they sound like. however I'm starting to realize I may have flubbed up with the focals
that will be a weekend project I think.
as for if they do end up sounding good, or at least to my liking....
well let me see how they sound first....
2g60s - had a thought about the "woofers" what about the worlds most popular woofer 😛 this thing has been around for years.
Massive magnets and very reasonably priced if you want to double up and not spend an arm and a leg:
MCM Audio Select 8'' High Excursion Woofer - 120W RMS 4ohm | 55-2421 (552421) | MCM Audio Select
I would not use them above 100hz, they start to peak and have a dreadful mid-range sound to them above that.
btw, what amplifier(s) are you using?
Massive magnets and very reasonably priced if you want to double up and not spend an arm and a leg:
MCM Audio Select 8'' High Excursion Woofer - 120W RMS 4ohm | 55-2421 (552421) | MCM Audio Select
I would not use them above 100hz, they start to peak and have a dreadful mid-range sound to them above that.
btw, what amplifier(s) are you using?
i had been kind of looking at the cast goldwoods
https://www.parts-express.com/goldwood-gw-8pc-8-8-heavy-duty-woofer-8-ohm--290-314
but still not sure. as for an amp? I currently have an older pioneer receiver, that I plan on upgrading in the near future
https://www.parts-express.com/goldwood-gw-8pc-8-8-heavy-duty-woofer-8-ohm--290-314
but still not sure. as for an amp? I currently have an older pioneer receiver, that I plan on upgrading in the near future
- Status
- Not open for further replies.