A couple of years ago I build a 200W RMS and now I have my own homemade completed UPS with a load off extra functions added plus working serial interface for PC, but I have a HUGE problem, then I try to debug my UPS it sometimes trip then I plug the amp in with the same UPS line, and I hear a noise on my speakers then it runs on battery power (mains failure), because of my modified sine wave inverter, but my mixer and pc doesn’t make any noises
So is there a way of putting a cap or something in parallel with my amps transformer in the mains line to suppress the noise from my UPS, because it make my inverter tripping or (induction/emf/noise) feedback or something
My amp takes 13Watt on idle
The total is 200W then PC is on + screen + mixer + amp
Inverter is 400W and 800W peak
thx
So is there a way of putting a cap or something in parallel with my amps transformer in the mains line to suppress the noise from my UPS, because it make my inverter tripping or (induction/emf/noise) feedback or something
My amp takes 13Watt on idle
The total is 200W then PC is on + screen + mixer + amp
Inverter is 400W and 800W peak
thx
AndrewT said:
then I try to debug my UPS it sometimes trip then I plug the amp in with the same UPS line, and I hear a noise on my speakers then it runs on battery power (mains failure), because of my modified sine wave inverter, but my mixer and pc doesn’t make any noises
the noise does come from the speakers indeed and a little but from the amp's transformer
Basically my amp is the reason why my inverter keeps on tripping, most of the times, so I assumed it a noise or something that causes my inverter to trip, it give a red light, red light means low batt, high temp and overload, but this only accurse 70% of all times that the thing trips itself.
So can it be that my amp has a high rush in current then I switch it on, but that delay is only ~3 millisecond long, then it takes for my UPS to switch from mains to battery power, so this is extremely weird for me
So can it be that my amp has a high rush in current then I switch it on, but that delay is only ~3 millisecond long, then it takes for my UPS to switch from mains to battery power, so this is extremely weird for me
take the amp off the inverter. Save the standby power for what needs to be kept running until a planned shutdown can be accomplished.
I already unplugged the amp 3 days ago, and plugged it in the normal mains plug, because the risk is to high then its plug in with the UPS, but everything else work 100%, only the map causes the tripping.
But having my amp plugged in like the old days just before I rebuilded my UPS is cool then you have 7 (140 Ah) hours of backup power and “almost a hybrid system with a wind turbine connected to the UPS battery bank”
But having my amp plugged in like the old days just before I rebuilded my UPS is cool then you have 7 (140 Ah) hours of backup power and “almost a hybrid system with a wind turbine connected to the UPS battery bank”
Ah,
green energy to power your bad habits!
It may be an amplifier start up problem that is causing the delayed trip.
Build in a temporary Power Thermistor to the transformer primary of the amplifier and test for clean start up.
If this helps then design/copy a resistor+relay bypass with 555 timer (about 300ms) for the amplifier.
The other problem may be that the high current charging spikes are upsetting the inverter which wants to deliver modified square waves to the loads, rather than short period spikes. A smaller first stage capacitance followed by a large inductor with higher value second stage capacitance will reduce the current spike.
As for interference suppression, use the standard IEC socket with the built in suppressor. Is the inverter inside a Faraday cage?
green energy to power your bad habits!
It may be an amplifier start up problem that is causing the delayed trip.
Build in a temporary Power Thermistor to the transformer primary of the amplifier and test for clean start up.
If this helps then design/copy a resistor+relay bypass with 555 timer (about 300ms) for the amplifier.
The other problem may be that the high current charging spikes are upsetting the inverter which wants to deliver modified square waves to the loads, rather than short period spikes. A smaller first stage capacitance followed by a large inductor with higher value second stage capacitance will reduce the current spike.
As for interference suppression, use the standard IEC socket with the built in suppressor. Is the inverter inside a Faraday cage?
The Faraday cage is made of aluminum like a car amp shape and form
And I think that feedback spike from my amp causes my inverter to trip, damn if mains was only DC I would just put a diode in parallel with the line to short out any negative voltages, but AC doesn’t role like that.
But I still don’t understand why a short delay that is ~3/25 or less of a second long can make a spike that trips my inverter
And I think that feedback spike from my amp causes my inverter to trip, damn if mains was only DC I would just put a diode in parallel with the line to short out any negative voltages, but AC doesn’t role like that.
But I still don’t understand why a short delay that is ~3/25 or less of a second long can make a spike that trips my inverter
Hi,
at start up, a toroid can have zero or reverse flux in it's core relative to the momentary waveform of the supply.
The worst case current spike is Vpk/pri Re. This can approach 250Apk for a 1kVA transformer. That is some inverter, if it allows this without collapsing.
at start up, a toroid can have zero or reverse flux in it's core relative to the momentary waveform of the supply.
The worst case current spike is Vpk/pri Re. This can approach 250Apk for a 1kVA transformer. That is some inverter, if it allows this without collapsing.
ý think you are using with UPS and you are hearing noise, but when you are using with normally system and you are not hearing noise, is it correct? if it is correcet , ý think the square wave use at UPS and the sinus wave use at normally system, and the transformer premeditated for sinus wave and your UPS have square wave, ý think the reason for it, you can use a resistor and capacitor 56 Ohm and 470nF for convert square to sinus
Adnancoskun said:
You mean a resister in series with a capacitor.
0-----/\/\/\-----| |-------0
I understand that square wave will make noise because its square wave “the specs says, its modified sine wave for my inverter”, but my amps trips my inverter, that the only problem I have
How about putting a Suppression Cap in parallel with my amps transformer “mains line”
http://www.fort777.co.za/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=269_456_469_501
Amps have a kind of a cap connected to its 250v terminal in parallel that goes into the transformer input line, what it that for?
Tripping UPS
Hi,
If the amp is drawing too much inrush current because of the squarewave, and this is tripping the UPS, possibly smoothing the waveform to more resemble a sin wave would help.,
A series inductor would tend smooth it.
The equivalent to a cap for DC may be viewed as an inductor for AC, in that they both store energy. A cap stores it in the form of charge, an inductor stores it in the form of a magnetic field.
Actually, I believe there are inductors sold for this very application.
Oh yes, here is a specification.
And a handy current selection chart.
An auto-transformer might do a good job too if you've got one laying around.
Something to think about.
Roy.
PS, did you notice this?
Disclaimer: I've never used any of their products, and have no relationship with them.
Hi,
If the amp is drawing too much inrush current because of the squarewave, and this is tripping the UPS, possibly smoothing the waveform to more resemble a sin wave would help.,
A series inductor would tend smooth it.
The equivalent to a cap for DC may be viewed as an inductor for AC, in that they both store energy. A cap stores it in the form of charge, an inductor stores it in the form of a magnetic field.
Actually, I believe there are inductors sold for this very application.
Oh yes, here is a specification.
And a handy current selection chart.
An auto-transformer might do a good job too if you've got one laying around.
Something to think about.
Roy.
PS, did you notice this?
Disclaimer: I've never used any of their products, and have no relationship with them.
All I can say is, most amps have a cap or something that looks like a cap connected to its mains line that goes into the transformer primary, and I also want to do that with my amp, I think it might solve my problem; the inrush current can’t be high because the power dip is only a split second, and my caps doesn’t discharge that fast. My amp can play 12 sec after I pull the power plug on it.
Does the UPS output square waves.
If yes, do not connect any electronics that has a mains transformer. as the transformer will get overheated and damaged.
Gajanan phadte
If yes, do not connect any electronics that has a mains transformer. as the transformer will get overheated and damaged.
Gajanan phadte
Well, what do u mean by mains transformer, like in a step down transformer, all electronics have them, my ups is hooked up to my pc + screen + mixer and it works well without tripping the inveter, “and my mixer doesn’t even heats up, but or regulator mains it does”
My inverter is modified sine wave on it label but looks more like square wave, because of the low quantity of parts in that section, it’s a flip flop ic connected to 4 IRF mosfets and uses 250v dc stored in a cap, that is supplied with a high frequency step up transformer, that takes 12dc and makes it 250 dc
Here is my UPS:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=111165&goto=newpost
Works like a dream, my proud; it has been running for more than 80 hours without blowing something
My inverter is modified sine wave on it label but looks more like square wave, because of the low quantity of parts in that section, it’s a flip flop ic connected to 4 IRF mosfets and uses 250v dc stored in a cap, that is supplied with a high frequency step up transformer, that takes 12dc and makes it 250 dc
Here is my UPS:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=111165&goto=newpost
Works like a dream, my proud; it has been running for more than 80 hours without blowing something
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