New to the forums, im James from Perth, Western Australia and the following may make some people shudder.. haha
I picked up a pair of B&W CWM800's and being in-wall / cieling speakers I was determined to use them even though I didnt have the option to mount them as such.
So outcame a pair of cabinets and the shoe-horning began.
I dont have access to any special measuring equipment so it's impossible for me to accurately tell you how bad they sounded but im sure you can imagain..
My mistake was assuming they sat in a sealed wall not thi king that american houses are plasterboard etc so the void in tje walls would be nothing like a speaker box / aussie wall.
If I EQ the bass down (-10) they actually start to sound really really good.. but where to from here?
Chop the back panel out of the cabinet
? Remove the side panels?
This is a project / learning exercise so open to anh suggestions or just laugh ..
I picked up a pair of B&W CWM800's and being in-wall / cieling speakers I was determined to use them even though I didnt have the option to mount them as such.
So outcame a pair of cabinets and the shoe-horning began.
I dont have access to any special measuring equipment so it's impossible for me to accurately tell you how bad they sounded but im sure you can imagain..
My mistake was assuming they sat in a sealed wall not thi king that american houses are plasterboard etc so the void in tje walls would be nothing like a speaker box / aussie wall.
If I EQ the bass down (-10) they actually start to sound really really good.. but where to from here?
Chop the back panel out of the cabinet
? Remove the side panels?
This is a project / learning exercise so open to anh suggestions or just laugh ..
Greetings James.
Couldn't find much info on these. They want a cavity larger than 0.5 cu ft. that's about it.
If you do what you suggest above you won't have a cabinet left...why not? It's called open baffle 😉 given their non-descript requirements it might work. You won't have any bass though unless you make the baffle huge 😀
Yeah, I agree- I think they want a much bigger space, which is probably why you had to turn down the bass so much, the vent was tuned too high by the space leading to a big bump. They would, as mentioned, also be tuned without baffle step correction, so you'd want to consider further EQ to correct for that.
Measurement would be very helpful.
Measurement would be very helpful.
Cheers guys appriciate the replys,
but admittedly im still completely lost.. clearly they need more space.. yeh? so do I try and gain some improvement by removing the back panel off the cabinet?
the piece to the puzzle im missing is the optional back box that you can get for them, but this only further confuses me as the way im looking at it the back box would close them in even further? basically putting them in a bookshelf sized sealed box? wouldnt that give them even MORE bass?
So confused, not expecting miracles without the knowledge or equipment but if I could atleast know im going in the right direction I would feel better, lol. do they need more space? cut the boxes? less?
heres a link to the back box, and the info on them
https://www.wilbert.nl/inbouwluidsprekers/bowers-wilkins-b-w-bb-w8-backbox-
http://www.hifigear.co.uk/media/uploads/ENG_FP29653_CWM652_brochure.pdf
again the replys and advice in invaluable, cheers guys
but admittedly im still completely lost.. clearly they need more space.. yeh? so do I try and gain some improvement by removing the back panel off the cabinet?
the piece to the puzzle im missing is the optional back box that you can get for them, but this only further confuses me as the way im looking at it the back box would close them in even further? basically putting them in a bookshelf sized sealed box? wouldnt that give them even MORE bass?
So confused, not expecting miracles without the knowledge or equipment but if I could atleast know im going in the right direction I would feel better, lol. do they need more space? cut the boxes? less?
heres a link to the back box, and the info on them
https://www.wilbert.nl/inbouwluidsprekers/bowers-wilkins-b-w-bb-w8-backbox-
http://www.hifigear.co.uk/media/uploads/ENG_FP29653_CWM652_brochure.pdf
again the replys and advice in invaluable, cheers guys
found this one to have more info for anyone keen to have a look
http://bwgroupsupport.com/downloads/manuals/bw/CWM500-650-800-OM.pdf
http://bwgroupsupport.com/downloads/manuals/bw/CWM500-650-800-OM.pdf
Woofers for open back use sometimes have smaller magnets. Their natural resonance at the low end has less electrical control (damping). The bass response at this point can be higher in level than the rest of the band. This can be OK to a point, depending where it is and how much of a peak there is, but putting it in a small box will push this resonance higher in frequency and higher in level.
What constitutes 'more bass' needs to consider this peak. Extending the response down in frequency is a good thing but the peak changes in the process. With some (most) woofers this means the bass lowers in level below the rest of the band. Therefore there is a best range for it for a given woofer.
What constitutes 'more bass' needs to consider this peak. Extending the response down in frequency is a good thing but the peak changes in the process. With some (most) woofers this means the bass lowers in level below the rest of the band. Therefore there is a best range for it for a given woofer.
Well im glad we cleared that up..
Honestly im more confused than ever.
Ive started to try and learn about crossovers and baffles etc now. Am I right in assuming the major difference between in wall speakers and standard floor standers is the curve in the crossover?
Ive packed the ports on the cabinets and I dont want to speak to soon but hooked up to my NAD 2ch they are startijg to sound pretty bloody good!!!
Honestly im more confused than ever.
Ive started to try and learn about crossovers and baffles etc now. Am I right in assuming the major difference between in wall speakers and standard floor standers is the curve in the crossover?
Ive packed the ports on the cabinets and I dont want to speak to soon but hooked up to my NAD 2ch they are startijg to sound pretty bloody good!!!
In wall speakers effectively have an infinitely large baffle which means there's no requirement for baffle step correction in the crossover
The size of the baffle and the size of the box are two different things with different effects. I don't see the point in the back box other than to protect the speakers from what might be a hostile environment and to possibly ease mounting.
Apparently it greatly improves the sound. They cant be infinite baffle if they go in american walls? Arnt they like Gyprock?
Ah, I see I've confused you I think..... You are right infinite baffle is often taken to mean a sealed box. I meant that the baffle itself (ie the flat surface the speaker is mounted on) is effectively infinitely large because it's the wall.
Ah got ya, sorry mate information overload haha
Ive been advised to fill the boxes with cotton buds and ive sealed them up completely.
I knew this wouldnt just work but wow what a learning curve. Secretly loving it inbetween fits of ripping my hair out 🙂
Ive been advised to fill the boxes with cotton buds and ive sealed them up completely.
I knew this wouldnt just work but wow what a learning curve. Secretly loving it inbetween fits of ripping my hair out 🙂
oh good more confusion
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/19907/Bowers-And-Wilkins-Cwm-Ds8.html?page=6
jeesus I didnt realise these things where so expensive..
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/19907/Bowers-And-Wilkins-Cwm-Ds8.html?page=6
jeesus I didnt realise these things where so expensive..
FWIW, today's basic in-wall space is ~92.625" x 14.5" x 3.5" = ~2.72 ft^3 and not real well sealed, so would be what I'd try in a tower [MLTL] alignment, tuned to ~40-42 Hz and go up/down in tuning if sealed didn't provide enough bass for you.
GM
GM
As AllenB pointed out, in too small a cab these types of drivers will have a 'booming' mid-bass, so need room to 'breathe' and if in a vented cab, such high Qt drivers need to be tuned below its Fs to roll off this 'boom', extend the bass response a bit lower.
GM
GM
so lower the bass more? Im so glad I posted here.. they have gone from unusable to enjoyable and theres still more to do tomorrow when the shops open 🙂
they are at the point now where certain songs are really starting to highlight the potential.
(alpha blondie - wish you were here) if you dont know it go and get acquainted 10/10
Im pretty certain now they can sound good with more fine tuning and messing about, I was leaning towards the conclusion that the crossovers would have to be modified or something but even now I can tell they are so close to being mint.
actually kinda scary, they could end up being better quality than my D.A.S speakers.. they are my pride and joy and was pretty certain I would never own anything that surpassed them.
so...much...to...learn!!!
they are at the point now where certain songs are really starting to highlight the potential.
(alpha blondie - wish you were here) if you dont know it go and get acquainted 10/10
Im pretty certain now they can sound good with more fine tuning and messing about, I was leaning towards the conclusion that the crossovers would have to be modified or something but even now I can tell they are so close to being mint.
actually kinda scary, they could end up being better quality than my D.A.S speakers.. they are my pride and joy and was pretty certain I would never own anything that surpassed them.
so...much...to...learn!!!
- Status
- Not open for further replies.