Urban sprawl pollution is not a reason to ban all internal combustion engines. Some of us don't live in cities oddly enough! I'm all for clean air zones, but not for ill thought out nany state policies.
University of Karlsruhe are close to developing a fluoride battery which they claim can have densities up to 10 times of today`s best Li-ion technology. I think they even have a testbed to show, look up their website. I think VW would be the most happy of all if a diesel-electric comes into play - they`d put a bare Golf diesel engine and install some software to tell service equipment its actually diesel-electric 😀
The vast majority of people do live in cities, and this is where the pollution issue is concentrated, I was merely pointing out the reality of fume breathing for these people. I still don't see where Porsche's catalytic converter fits in here
"During the first three months of 2017, "zero emission" vehicles (electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids) added up to 4.8 percent of all new vehicles registered in California, the highest market share ever recorded."
Legislation:
The ZEV Program Timeline:
1990 California embarked on a plan to reduce vehicle emissions to zero through the introduction of the Zero Emission Vehicle (ZEV) Program. At that time, the Board required that in 1998, 2% of the vehicles that large manufacturers produced for sale in California had to be ZEVs, increasing to 5% in 2001 and 10% in 2003.
1996 The ZEV mandate was adjusted to eliminate the “ramp up” years but left in place the 10% ZEV requirement for 2003, and again in 1998 to allow partial ZEV (PZEV) credits for extremely clean vehicles that were not pure ZEVs. The underlying goal, however, never changed. California remained committed to seeing increasing numbers of ZEVs in the vehicle fleet. The challenge was determining how to reach this goal.
2001 The challenge at this time was to maintain progress towards commercialization of ZEVs, while recognizing constraints due to cost, lead-time, and technical challenges. The 2001 modifications allowed large manufacturers to meet their ZEV requirement with 2% pure ZEVs, 2% Advanced Technology PZEVS and 6% PZEVs.
2002 Due to a lawsuit filed against the Board, a federal district judge issued a preliminary injunction that prohibited the Board from enforcing the 2001 ZEV amendments with respect to the sale of new motor vehicles in model years 2003 or 2004. Once the Board adopted the 2003 Amendments to the ZEV regulation, the parties to the lawsuits agreed to end the litigation.
2003 In order to address the preliminary injunction and better align the program requirements with the status of technology development, staff proposed additional modifications to the ZEV regulation in March 2003. The reasons and benefits are described above.
Legislation:
The ZEV Program Timeline:
1990 California embarked on a plan to reduce vehicle emissions to zero through the introduction of the Zero Emission Vehicle (ZEV) Program. At that time, the Board required that in 1998, 2% of the vehicles that large manufacturers produced for sale in California had to be ZEVs, increasing to 5% in 2001 and 10% in 2003.
1996 The ZEV mandate was adjusted to eliminate the “ramp up” years but left in place the 10% ZEV requirement for 2003, and again in 1998 to allow partial ZEV (PZEV) credits for extremely clean vehicles that were not pure ZEVs. The underlying goal, however, never changed. California remained committed to seeing increasing numbers of ZEVs in the vehicle fleet. The challenge was determining how to reach this goal.
2001 The challenge at this time was to maintain progress towards commercialization of ZEVs, while recognizing constraints due to cost, lead-time, and technical challenges. The 2001 modifications allowed large manufacturers to meet their ZEV requirement with 2% pure ZEVs, 2% Advanced Technology PZEVS and 6% PZEVs.
2002 Due to a lawsuit filed against the Board, a federal district judge issued a preliminary injunction that prohibited the Board from enforcing the 2001 ZEV amendments with respect to the sale of new motor vehicles in model years 2003 or 2004. Once the Board adopted the 2003 Amendments to the ZEV regulation, the parties to the lawsuits agreed to end the litigation.
2003 In order to address the preliminary injunction and better align the program requirements with the status of technology development, staff proposed additional modifications to the ZEV regulation in March 2003. The reasons and benefits are described above.
Whatever happened to the highly touted hydrogen powered vehicles that were going appear in the showrooms, last year and now? We were told that the issues had been worked out, and that practical cars would be available by the present time.
Do the laws of physics supersede the “laws” created by our governing bodies?
The basic problem is energy storage. Which contains more energy, a gallon of liquid hydrogen, or a gallon of gasoline? Research it and you might be quite surprised.
The same issue confronts battery powered vehicles. The amount of energy stored in a one cubic foot battery, is far less than is stored in one cubic foot of gasoline. Diesel fuel contains even more energy than gasoline, which is why it’s more expensive, and some of the reason why diesel vehicles seemingly produce better fuel mileage than their gas counterparts.
There are some batteries produced in laboratories that do much better with energy storage than do the types in use today. Most are not at all practical for production due to costs, stability (some are downright dangerous), useful life, and other reasons of practicality. I’ve been reading about “battery breakthroughs”, for at least the last 40 years,
The day will probably come, eventually, when other fuels will supersede our present ones.
However the change will be industry and consumer driven, not driven by government "experts".
We will likely be “filling up” at the pump for a long, long time.
Do the laws of physics supersede the “laws” created by our governing bodies?
The basic problem is energy storage. Which contains more energy, a gallon of liquid hydrogen, or a gallon of gasoline? Research it and you might be quite surprised.
The same issue confronts battery powered vehicles. The amount of energy stored in a one cubic foot battery, is far less than is stored in one cubic foot of gasoline. Diesel fuel contains even more energy than gasoline, which is why it’s more expensive, and some of the reason why diesel vehicles seemingly produce better fuel mileage than their gas counterparts.
There are some batteries produced in laboratories that do much better with energy storage than do the types in use today. Most are not at all practical for production due to costs, stability (some are downright dangerous), useful life, and other reasons of practicality. I’ve been reading about “battery breakthroughs”, for at least the last 40 years,
The day will probably come, eventually, when other fuels will supersede our present ones.
However the change will be industry and consumer driven, not driven by government "experts".
We will likely be “filling up” at the pump for a long, long time.
My guess is awesome LiveLeak videos, perhaps enough to dethrone Russian drivers.
or sign up now for one of these, and have the best of both worlds?
Jaguar's I-Pace revealed on the road ahead of 2018 launch | Daily Mail Online
Maybe Bose will develop a compact speaker system that emulates the throaty growl of the V12
My son and daughter each have one of the cute little BMW I3s, and while they're certainly a practical short range run about, and they are dangerously quiet - particularly when surrounded by other vehicles in a crowded parking lots, or at crosswalks with pedestrians distracted by their phones / earbuds more than most drivers.
Personally, I'm waiting for "Mr Fusion" reactor - all the free clean power you could possibly want, but you lose on the composting for your kale greenhouse
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I have heard these stories every year since I graduated. Sodium sulpher was the big one in 1990, if only it didn't have to be kept at 300C! Lithium tech was the last big breakthrough. We need a dense energy storage that is easy to move about and quick to get into the vehicle. Nothing beats liquid fuels at the moment. but i hope
@Chris: back in the 80s when lotus had their active noise cancellation gig going, they had a demo astra where you could chose, silent, V8, V12 or flat 6! I think one of the current audis has a speaker in the dash to give more engine noise as well!
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Ok, so the problem is polluted cities. Always has been. Most of us don't remember the pea soup fogs in london from coal luckily. However the solution to a problem that occurs in 5% of uk land area is not to ban all petrol cars. Its to stop polluting in the cities. Hybrids will do that. Most city journeys are under 10 miles of stop go traffic. perfect for a hybrid.
Here in reading the busses run on CNG. Big improvement in air quality without all those stinky diesels. Beats the hybrid routemasters in london.
In urban areas the public transport is the most important thing. stop people wanting to use cars in the first place.
The porsche point is that there is a range of measures to be used. Catalytic radiators on buses would be a good extra help. More Plane trees also helps etc. Platanus x acerifolia - Wikipedia
Unfortunately most people don't take this kind of thing seriously unless it becomes law, particularly in a world where the strong are encouraged to exploit the weak
This has been known for as long as I can remember. How do you suggest the major polluters are encouraged to abandon their hard earned freedoms and rights?
An interesting article by people who really understand electricity
http://fes.nationalgrid.com/media/1221/forecourt-thoughts-v10.pdf
http://fes.nationalgrid.com/media/1221/forecourt-thoughts-v10.pdf
Trying to do the exact same things as before, which had been developed for the last 100 years based on very cheap and very high energy density fossil fuels won´t work; we need to do a lot of re-designing, and I do not only mean at the technical level, but also at the Human end, meaning Society, Urbanism, type of work, etc.
"Suburbia", specially California style, where people sleep at widely scattered homes, where you can get nothing locally but have to drive anywhere, even to get a pack of cigarettes or send kids to School, is doomed.
People will need to go back to City living , where they live closer together; if a Big City they can use Public Transport, if a smaller one they can shop, have school, Doctors, entertainment, etc. all within walking distance, or at worst within a short ride. (think electric car range 😉 )
Think life up to the 40`s or so, but with far more advanced Technology (communictions and such).
If you have some spare time, watch this sobering video about the end of the cheap plentiful oil era, or at least listen to it in the background while you do something else.
The End Of The American Dream - Suburbs - YouTube
Oh, endure the first 3 or 5 minutes; I almost turned the video off, it looks cheesy dated .... precisely because they want you to get in the mind set of people who moved to Suburbs in the 40`s and 50`s ... thinking they had found Heaven on Earth.
"Suburbia", specially California style, where people sleep at widely scattered homes, where you can get nothing locally but have to drive anywhere, even to get a pack of cigarettes or send kids to School, is doomed.
People will need to go back to City living , where they live closer together; if a Big City they can use Public Transport, if a smaller one they can shop, have school, Doctors, entertainment, etc. all within walking distance, or at worst within a short ride. (think electric car range 😉 )
Think life up to the 40`s or so, but with far more advanced Technology (communictions and such).
If you have some spare time, watch this sobering video about the end of the cheap plentiful oil era, or at least listen to it in the background while you do something else.
The End Of The American Dream - Suburbs - YouTube
Oh, endure the first 3 or 5 minutes; I almost turned the video off, it looks cheesy dated .... precisely because they want you to get in the mind set of people who moved to Suburbs in the 40`s and 50`s ... thinking they had found Heaven on Earth.
Current Tesla car emission (from driving) is 135g/km. Not very poor, but not really great.
Producing the Tesla is also far from green, but we have a dream. Meantime we feel good increasing our carbon emission by buying EV's
Producing the Tesla is also far from green, but we have a dream. Meantime we feel good increasing our carbon emission by buying EV's
ScottJoplin: I am not sure if you are being extreme to keep the debate running or just bitter and cynical with no faith in the human race. Now personally I am lucky enough to be able to cycle to work but I use public transport regularly as it is quicker and less than the parking charge to go into town.
I personally have an issue with leaving it to politicians to legislate, after all they were the lot who recommended we all drove diesels and are now backtracking on that when the blindingly obvious is pointed out to them. They are also the mob who came up with a scrappage scheme for old cars to prop up the motor industry.
I do however have some faith that as a whole we will do things to improve matters without turning into mindless drones. Time will tell.
I personally have an issue with leaving it to politicians to legislate, after all they were the lot who recommended we all drove diesels and are now backtracking on that when the blindingly obvious is pointed out to them. They are also the mob who came up with a scrappage scheme for old cars to prop up the motor industry.
I do however have some faith that as a whole we will do things to improve matters without turning into mindless drones. Time will tell.
Neither. There are other options available. I just asked a question about how people can be encouraged not to pollute so much when they know what they are doing but seem not to care. Am I wrong? They do care really but are powerless?
Encouragement starts with making the facts available to them in a way they can understand rather than picking one thing 'diesel is bad, VW is worse'.
Now personally the best thing we could do is stop migration to the south of uk. This may require the city of london* to be raised to the ground, but I'd be game for that. When the govt cuts funding for electrification of rail lines but signs off 40bn for crossrail2 that irks me. This is not being politcal per se as all the uk parties are just as bad and I dislike them equally!
*note to the confused, the city of london is the square mile of the financial district and has its own lord mayor own police own laws etc. It survives due to money as far as I can tell.
Now personally the best thing we could do is stop migration to the south of uk. This may require the city of london* to be raised to the ground, but I'd be game for that. When the govt cuts funding for electrification of rail lines but signs off 40bn for crossrail2 that irks me. This is not being politcal per se as all the uk parties are just as bad and I dislike them equally!
*note to the confused, the city of london is the square mile of the financial district and has its own lord mayor own police own laws etc. It survives due to money as far as I can tell.
Same on this side of the pond. Both parties are loathsome panderers to corporate donors. Us peons exist only to fund their shenanigans.
Haha, and you accuse me of being cynical 😉. I merely speak from my own experience, and I'm afraid I don't have a huge amount of faith in (collective?) human nature, now on an individual basis, maybe. Public transport, I believe is never going to appeal to the majority of people who can afford the alternative. So, the alternative is either made ridiculously expensive so only the very wealthy can afford it (which they would love) or there is some kind of legislation, I honestly do not see an alternative. The debate about public transport has been going on for so long and gets no-where
Sorry for the overuse of the word alternative...but I couldn't think of an.........another word
Sorry for the overuse of the word alternative...but I couldn't think of an.........another word
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