Crossoverless Speakers
Hi,
The Principle used in Speakers like the Reference 3A is sound.
For those interested in a more serious implementation of such a principle the German "Prometheus" Kit from Bastanis Audio provides a Speaker with no crossover on the Fullrange driver, a single cap for the tweeter plus added active subwoofer and all that with around 100db/W/m sensitivity for around $1,250 Bucks plus lumber and a little work....
A Test of this system including much technical Info was published by Klang & Ton in Germany (and sadly in German, but it has pictures). I have a Kit here waiting for me to rout the baffles.
I choose the Baffles to be made from Ikea stave glued hardwood shelves intended for Kitchens, 124cm X 38cm. Inexpensive, good looking and effective.
Sayonara
Hi,
The Principle used in Speakers like the Reference 3A is sound.
For those interested in a more serious implementation of such a principle the German "Prometheus" Kit from Bastanis Audio provides a Speaker with no crossover on the Fullrange driver, a single cap for the tweeter plus added active subwoofer and all that with around 100db/W/m sensitivity for around $1,250 Bucks plus lumber and a little work....
A Test of this system including much technical Info was published by Klang & Ton in Germany (and sadly in German, but it has pictures). I have a Kit here waiting for me to rout the baffles.
I choose the Baffles to be made from Ikea stave glued hardwood shelves intended for Kitchens, 124cm X 38cm. Inexpensive, good looking and effective.
Sayonara
Re: DEPENDING?
The actual medite brand stuff is high density compared to most -- MDF comes in many quality levels and this would be at the high end.
dave
fdegrove said:
The actual medite brand stuff is high density compared to most -- MDF comes in many quality levels and this would be at the high end.
dave
Medite a "high end" MDF?
http://www.royalplywood.com/Support_Info./PRODUCT_INFO/MDF_MEDITE_FR.pdf
Hmmmmm.....remembering cutting the back panels of the Reference 3As to install the larger binding posts, it didn't seem different than the Home depot MDF that I used to build my earlier Aria 5s.
http://www.royalplywood.com/Support_Info./PRODUCT_INFO/MDF_MEDITE_FR.pdf
Hmmmmm.....remembering cutting the back panels of the Reference 3As to install the larger binding posts, it didn't seem different than the Home depot MDF that I used to build my earlier Aria 5s.
MDF
Hi,
I think in the days of Audio Reference they were one of the first companies to use such a type of wood agglomerate for speaker cabinets.
That created a stirr in audio circles since it was claimed to sound so much better.
Nowadays most speakermanufacturers use MDF of some sort for their cabinets.
It is reported to have good dampening properties.
Cheers,😉
Hi,
I think in the days of Audio Reference they were one of the first companies to use such a type of wood agglomerate for speaker cabinets.
That created a stirr in audio circles since it was claimed to sound so much better.
Nowadays most speakermanufacturers use MDF of some sort for their cabinets.
It is reported to have good dampening properties.
Cheers,😉
Re: MDF
I used to always build my speakers with medite. Now i have moved on to variations on Baltic Birch plywood -- except for budget speakers which are often built using MDF scraps that would normally be headed for the bin.
One of the reasons for using higher quality MDF is that is machines very nicely. Plywood is not as co-operative and is thus harder to finish.
I just posted some pics of my 1st alphaTLs. Simple butt joins of mahogany veneered MDF. The stain where the roundover exposed the bare MDF turned out to be a very nice accent. (these also use the XO scheme in the title of this thread)
dave
fdegrove said:
I used to always build my speakers with medite. Now i have moved on to variations on Baltic Birch plywood -- except for budget speakers which are often built using MDF scraps that would normally be headed for the bin.
One of the reasons for using higher quality MDF is that is machines very nicely. Plywood is not as co-operative and is thus harder to finish.
I just posted some pics of my 1st alphaTLs. Simple butt joins of mahogany veneered MDF. The stain where the roundover exposed the bare MDF turned out to be a very nice accent. (these also use the XO scheme in the title of this thread)
dave
I Just Need Aound Tuit......
If you perfectly impedence compensate each of the drivers (the inductive rising impedence characteristic - paralleled RC network, and resonance compensating network - paralleled series LCR network), then you ought to be able to connect both woofer and tweeter in parallel, and the two drivers will fling energy at each other and sort it out between themselves.
The provisos are that you need to add the paralleled LCR series networks to each driver to resistively dump energy at the frequencies where each of the the drivers is resonant, and the drivers parallel connection must be non inductive.
I have tried the rising inductive impedence compensated driver/non-inductive conductor parallel connection and sonically it worked "sh*t hot".
I did not get a round to fitting appropriate series resonant networks to null the resonance impedence humps of the drivers, but I did compensate both drivers for rising impedence characteristic out to 40 kHxz or so.
The result was the cleanest, most open and live sound that I have ever heard from CD, and at serious and extreme levels for long term until tweeters broke - I fixed them a few times.
The downsides are that if the tweeter resonance is not cancelled then the fine tweeter voice coil connecting wires break due to mechanical resonance excessive excursion fatigue, and this tweeter resonance is of course audible, but you can ignore it during experimentation sessions.
Ditto, if the woofer resonance is not damped (by paralleled series LCR network) extra harmonic energy is flung at the tweeter.
Despite WAY rms rated overdriving (Yamaha NS-20 cabints rated 40W rms, amplifier rated 150W rms driven to regular momentary clip) a pair of thus modified 8" 2 way cabinets, I did not experience thermal overload or burnout, only mechanical breakage of the tweeter thin flex leadwires due to mechanical resonance of the tweeter dome assembly.
Circumstances at the time meant that I did not get to explore the extremes of this notion (fitting the paralleled LCR networks), but the experiments were very, very, very encouraging, except for the tweeter resonance sonics and breakages (this would not be an issue with correct compensation).
At the time I resorted to series capacitor connection of the tweeter, and this result was extremely good also, but just that level below the former result.
Eric, The Lateral Thinker.
Peter Daniel said:
If you perfectly impedence compensate each of the drivers (the inductive rising impedence characteristic - paralleled RC network, and resonance compensating network - paralleled series LCR network), then you ought to be able to connect both woofer and tweeter in parallel, and the two drivers will fling energy at each other and sort it out between themselves.
The provisos are that you need to add the paralleled LCR series networks to each driver to resistively dump energy at the frequencies where each of the the drivers is resonant, and the drivers parallel connection must be non inductive.
I have tried the rising inductive impedence compensated driver/non-inductive conductor parallel connection and sonically it worked "sh*t hot".
I did not get a round to fitting appropriate series resonant networks to null the resonance impedence humps of the drivers, but I did compensate both drivers for rising impedence characteristic out to 40 kHxz or so.
The result was the cleanest, most open and live sound that I have ever heard from CD, and at serious and extreme levels for long term until tweeters broke - I fixed them a few times.
The downsides are that if the tweeter resonance is not cancelled then the fine tweeter voice coil connecting wires break due to mechanical resonance excessive excursion fatigue, and this tweeter resonance is of course audible, but you can ignore it during experimentation sessions.
Ditto, if the woofer resonance is not damped (by paralleled series LCR network) extra harmonic energy is flung at the tweeter.
Despite WAY rms rated overdriving (Yamaha NS-20 cabints rated 40W rms, amplifier rated 150W rms driven to regular momentary clip) a pair of thus modified 8" 2 way cabinets, I did not experience thermal overload or burnout, only mechanical breakage of the tweeter thin flex leadwires due to mechanical resonance of the tweeter dome assembly.
Circumstances at the time meant that I did not get to explore the extremes of this notion (fitting the paralleled LCR networks), but the experiments were very, very, very encouraging, except for the tweeter resonance sonics and breakages (this would not be an issue with correct compensation).
At the time I resorted to series capacitor connection of the tweeter, and this result was extremely good also, but just that level below the former result.
Eric, The Lateral Thinker.
Crossover-Less Speakers
I'm told by a someone at Gallo Acoustics that their TMM monitors (gallo reference) has no crossover of any kind, their proprietary tweeter has some way of passing only the HF band with out any passive devices. I believe their new "Due" are of the same topology.
I'm told by a someone at Gallo Acoustics that their TMM monitors (gallo reference) has no crossover of any kind, their proprietary tweeter has some way of passing only the HF band with out any passive devices. I believe their new "Due" are of the same topology.
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Re: Crossover-Less Speakers
I believe the Gallo's use a piezo tweeter. No crossover required.
kingdaddy said:
I believe the Gallo's use a piezo tweeter. No crossover required.
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