There's another face of the same coin.Those big companies sent all their designers to cost-down courses where they learn how to adjust various practical implementation of a project for a given price tag limit.Even if you try improving a certain design by changing the op-amps is not enough cause you'd need to change the whole concept: pcb design, power supply performance , decoupling, thermal management, etc...
You can compare specs all day long.
They buy these things on reels of 3000 units.
Unit cost on a Reel of 4558 is .12 to .18 cents
High Performance Op Amp like 2134 is 1.00 per unit on a reel.
Since the amplifier that powers the speaker has the same sound with .18 cent or 6.00 dollar opamp
Why would you pay 3000 dollars for 3000 units
when you can pay 3000 dollars for 18,000 units
they use 40 year old ancient opamp, because sounds the same, DIRT cheap
They buy these things on reels of 3000 units.
Unit cost on a Reel of 4558 is .12 to .18 cents
High Performance Op Amp like 2134 is 1.00 per unit on a reel.
Since the amplifier that powers the speaker has the same sound with .18 cent or 6.00 dollar opamp
Why would you pay 3000 dollars for 3000 units
when you can pay 3000 dollars for 18,000 units
they use 40 year old ancient opamp, because sounds the same, DIRT cheap
In the mean time JRC has created a very solid contendent of the ol series of medium quality op-amps with NJM8080 , which a really good cheap soundcard like my audient id22 is full of... When I bought mine in 2017 it was cheaper than it is today, but it was hailed widely by a whole recording world as an optimum product offering just enough quality for a smal to medium recording studio.I thought in the beginning that i'd make it better by changing trhe op-amp with some lm4562 but analysing the whole concept i realized i'd have to change lot more than just the op-amps to get a little bit more quality. Unfortunately the way marketing is done today for a new company that wants to be seen by using the same "Sony ratio" of component cost/final product on te shelf cost of 1/10 is not working miracles for us...In the mean time SONY's cost for a given product dropped to 1/50 due to high volume component and work force purchasing while small companies have to struggle to get same quality for 10 times more production costs while looking for better quality to make a difference... https://www.njr.com/electronic_device/PDF/NJM8080_E.pdf
Last edited:
That would be associated with my comment about design and testing in a laboratory.
Of course everything that was ever written on diyaudio should be associated with your holly work!
Why not? I'm sure you're the wisest and oldest member of this forum.We're all much younger .We must have seen anything we wrote here somewhere in the past, maybe it was written in the Almanac of Azarqueil...
You're being silly, I suppose because you're younger?
And it seems you have issues with someone older, with decades of experience?
Perhaps it's some jealousy?
To my mind, that's being childish.
Where do you pull all those nonsense numbers from?
Clearly you have no clue about Production costs, direct and indirect, Factory setup costs, machinery and equipment, getting/training workers, meeting State and local Tax, environmental demands, storage, distribution, marketing, Bank loan interest and repayment, and the myriad costs and liabilities associated with Manufacturing.
Not forgetting the Design and Technology aspects, these are not generic Commodities such as soybeans or oil.
You seem to compare raw parts cost (and only on a few of them) as if that were the main factor, and even so got the numbers wrong.
Your "Math" sounds similar to:
😉 😉 😉
Well, since you're continual and already boring snarkiness doesn't seem to stop, how about I simply add you to my "IGNORE" list with some others that annoy me?
I don't need your frikkin attitude.
Done.
Odd you get quite descriptive about the nationality and previous profession. Don’t really see much of that on this thread. I came here to get some good info about possibly upgrading the opamp in a HS8. To find, to me, a rather racist comment about a Jew. Have you talked to the clients? Are they generally happy? If so then please provide detailed sources. As it seems you are into this kinda thing.
I commonly lurk here. Make some ignorant comments trying to get info. I did spend over 20 years in high end consumer audio training my ears. As such I can only speak to sound. Not a persons nationality and previous profession (pilots generally have a degree and many in engineering. So there is that..). Seriously came here for opamps and found obvious racism. I guess the two are related in some alternate reality. So I’ll close this with
Enjoy! (Being a racist)
@Pricedlx
I read NareshBrd's comment and don't find anything "obviously racist" about it.
It describes someone's country location and abilities.
As far as I see it, it makes no mention of the guy as being of any nationality, just his location.
Of course, assuming things is no different than speculation.
In fact, there are several members that I know of on here, that are not currently living in their "native" countries.
I read NareshBrd's comment and don't find anything "obviously racist" about it.
It describes someone's country location and abilities.
As far as I see it, it makes no mention of the guy as being of any nationality, just his location.
Of course, assuming things is no different than speculation.
In fact, there are several members that I know of on here, that are not currently living in their "native" countries.
All I said that it was a convincing, and deceitful way of selling, in this case an upgrade / restoration / repair / whatever as a service.
I did not mention anything personal, it does not matter whether the person is male / female / other, nor does race, religion, height, weight or whatever affect the fact that the person is not fully honest.
Person may be agnostic, he is still not trustworthy.
If you say 4558 should be replaced with 2134, fine, but I think you need to modify the circuit, it is not a direct replacement.
Then you should put better (faster?) transistors as well, there are much improved versions after TIP 31 / 41.
The person insisted on metal tab TIPs, which are hard to find, that is acceptable, but a contradiction, keeping the old type transistors with a faster pre-amp section.
So, ultimately, a hollow act.
Bear in mind that many recording studios still have 4558 and 5532 in their consoles, so you are going to play back music recorded with a particular level of performance, so in rush hour you are still going slow, no matter whether your car is fast or slow....the recording has to be played back faithfully.
In fact, the old ST data sheets for the TDA series said that op amps should have a slew rate of less than 20V/uS, or the circuit will be unstable.
The 2134 goes above 40, not really needed in audio, as the output and speakers have to match the faster device as well.
So you made a hot rod with a better intake manifold, the engine, tires and suspension are not changed....big deal, and a waste of effort. The overall performance change will not be much.
If you boast about that, I have nothing to say.
Discussing digital enhancement and so on is not part of this post.
I did not mention anything personal, it does not matter whether the person is male / female / other, nor does race, religion, height, weight or whatever affect the fact that the person is not fully honest.
Person may be agnostic, he is still not trustworthy.
If you say 4558 should be replaced with 2134, fine, but I think you need to modify the circuit, it is not a direct replacement.
Then you should put better (faster?) transistors as well, there are much improved versions after TIP 31 / 41.
The person insisted on metal tab TIPs, which are hard to find, that is acceptable, but a contradiction, keeping the old type transistors with a faster pre-amp section.
So, ultimately, a hollow act.
Bear in mind that many recording studios still have 4558 and 5532 in their consoles, so you are going to play back music recorded with a particular level of performance, so in rush hour you are still going slow, no matter whether your car is fast or slow....the recording has to be played back faithfully.
In fact, the old ST data sheets for the TDA series said that op amps should have a slew rate of less than 20V/uS, or the circuit will be unstable.
The 2134 goes above 40, not really needed in audio, as the output and speakers have to match the faster device as well.
So you made a hot rod with a better intake manifold, the engine, tires and suspension are not changed....big deal, and a waste of effort. The overall performance change will not be much.
If you boast about that, I have nothing to say.
Discussing digital enhancement and so on is not part of this post.
In India, you need to pass / graduate high school to start flight school, and after going solo as a private pilot, and minimum hours, you can train for multi engine and commercial licenses.
The Air Force here has a college, trainees get a basic college degree and of course basic training, then are sent to fighter / helicopter / transport training as per their skill sets and choice.
As far as we Indians are concerned, a higher education has nothing to do with flying skills, look at the WWII fighter pilots, colonel by 30 in many cases.
Their education? Look it up. They were mostly NOT engineers.
The Air Force here has a college, trainees get a basic college degree and of course basic training, then are sent to fighter / helicopter / transport training as per their skill sets and choice.
As far as we Indians are concerned, a higher education has nothing to do with flying skills, look at the WWII fighter pilots, colonel by 30 in many cases.
Their education? Look it up. They were mostly NOT engineers.
I don't want to stretch but it's funny that you're saying this to an indian (second home of jews people).
Best regards