Hi there. I previously owned a Chinese tube amp (a Yaqin MC10L) and I really enjoyed it, and am wanting to own another tube amp. My last post here was 12 years ago when I first bought it. I initially was looking at the newer model of the MC10L and went down a rabbit hole. I am currently going back and forth between wanting to build my own, and just getting a replacement.
One of the biggest things I don’t understand is the wildly varying prices. Even sometimes the same brand and retailer will have significantly different prices between similar models. I do understand part of it is the tubes, but in most cases there isn’t nearly as big of a delta as there is in the difference in tube prices. I have also been looking at various kits, but they also seem to be much more expensive than the cost of the components.
I would really like to take either a kit or a design and pick out a chassis that pleases me (there are dozens on AliExpress) and some knobs and switches I like and put it together. My skills are basic but I can follow directions.
I would like to get a better understanding of what is driving the pricing. I don’t mind spending extra where it counts, and since I am not working at scale, spending an extra $20 on better caps makes more sense than it would when making 20K units.
I am not in a hurry and if this takes six months that is fine. I am sure this will be my first of many more and I don’t know if that first one will be a self build, a kit, or just a purchase. I have also been reading up a lot on building my own speakers and would like to do that as well. As I learn more, and get more confident, I can worry about designing circuits. I have been doing nothing but reading and watching stuff on how tubes work, and what makes a good amp and am enjoying that.
Really at this juncture the most important thing to figure out, no matter what I do, is what my needs are. The Yaqin had 45 watts per channel, and while significantly less than my HT amp (120), it never had any problem driving my speakers. I keep reading about single ended amps and although the outputs are normally under 10 watts, they seem to suffice in many instances. Right now, I would be driving a pair of Focal towers (Chorus 716V- 91.5db), which seems to be enough. As a stopgap I am using a 20W Lepai, and I don’t turn it up past a quarter turn most of the time.
The Willsenton R8 seems to be extremely popular right now, and although it is supposedly a great bargain, it is currently more than I am willing to spend for a bedroom amp. I saw on a popular tube retailer site, that they posted the schematic for it, but I don’t have enough skill to back engineer a schematic (yet). I previously had EL34 power tubes in the Yaqin and the KT-88s are supposed to be a little more output and have a better lower end. I listen to a lot of EDM so I do want it to be able to get loud enough and with a good amount of bass, although I am currently in an apartment and can’t turn it up very loud. I do also listen to classical and Jazz and would like the rich nuanced mid range that tubes can offer. I really like the idea of being able to flip a switch and change tubes and a switch to go from triode to ultra linear (I think the R8 has both of these options). And to me the most fun part of having a tube amp, would be tube rolling. I would like to experiment with different tubes. That might entail different builds but some seem to be better suited to this than others.
I see that the Oddwatts are pretty popular, and he has a KT-88 kit, but it is a bit out of my range and I don’t understand why it would be so expensive. I am sure there are reasons but my idea for at least this build would be as little as possible, with maybe a $500 or so limit (which is around what I would spend on the Yaqin).
Aesthetics are very important to me and I plan on building a case or bookshelf around it just because they are so darn beautiful. My plan would be to get an aluminum chassis and some nice buttons and switches that I like (I am big into the burled aluminum knob with a nice feel and velvet action). Aesthetically, I really like the look of torrid transformers, but apparently they can cause a lot of interference? I would love to have the tubes on top and a big (possibly wound by me) couple of toroidal transformers in back). I saw a really beautiful amp (Cayin CS-150A) with these incredible KT-150s (aesthetically) but it was $6000. Again I can’t figure out how it would cost so much, other than it being “audiophile” gear.. The tubes, while expensive, are under $100 each. I also saw a few tubes that glow blue, and not from LEDs or anything but from fluorescence, but I don’t know how applicable these tubes would be (I read about the Leslie 145 and 147) in an application like this. I am sure many of you can relate that the more exotic looking a tube is, the more it interests me. I love the coke bottle shapes and the pretty logos like Gold Lion. I also have a bit of a fascination with Russian goods and history and would like to experiment with some of that. Having anything strictly vintage isn’t important beyond the aesthetic value. I know my dad has a big cache of tubes from my grandfather and it might be worth designing at least partially around these.
TL’DR
I would like to have a relatively inexpensive tube amp that looks and sounds somewhat like my old MC10L but preferably with more of the features that I would like. I am trying to find out how many watts I need, what topology would be best for me, and what tubes I would like to start with. I am trying to decide on a kit, or a design someone has done previously with easy to follow instructions, or just purchasing another inexpensive amp from China.
One of the biggest things I don’t understand is the wildly varying prices. Even sometimes the same brand and retailer will have significantly different prices between similar models. I do understand part of it is the tubes, but in most cases there isn’t nearly as big of a delta as there is in the difference in tube prices. I have also been looking at various kits, but they also seem to be much more expensive than the cost of the components.
I would really like to take either a kit or a design and pick out a chassis that pleases me (there are dozens on AliExpress) and some knobs and switches I like and put it together. My skills are basic but I can follow directions.
I would like to get a better understanding of what is driving the pricing. I don’t mind spending extra where it counts, and since I am not working at scale, spending an extra $20 on better caps makes more sense than it would when making 20K units.
I am not in a hurry and if this takes six months that is fine. I am sure this will be my first of many more and I don’t know if that first one will be a self build, a kit, or just a purchase. I have also been reading up a lot on building my own speakers and would like to do that as well. As I learn more, and get more confident, I can worry about designing circuits. I have been doing nothing but reading and watching stuff on how tubes work, and what makes a good amp and am enjoying that.
Really at this juncture the most important thing to figure out, no matter what I do, is what my needs are. The Yaqin had 45 watts per channel, and while significantly less than my HT amp (120), it never had any problem driving my speakers. I keep reading about single ended amps and although the outputs are normally under 10 watts, they seem to suffice in many instances. Right now, I would be driving a pair of Focal towers (Chorus 716V- 91.5db), which seems to be enough. As a stopgap I am using a 20W Lepai, and I don’t turn it up past a quarter turn most of the time.
The Willsenton R8 seems to be extremely popular right now, and although it is supposedly a great bargain, it is currently more than I am willing to spend for a bedroom amp. I saw on a popular tube retailer site, that they posted the schematic for it, but I don’t have enough skill to back engineer a schematic (yet). I previously had EL34 power tubes in the Yaqin and the KT-88s are supposed to be a little more output and have a better lower end. I listen to a lot of EDM so I do want it to be able to get loud enough and with a good amount of bass, although I am currently in an apartment and can’t turn it up very loud. I do also listen to classical and Jazz and would like the rich nuanced mid range that tubes can offer. I really like the idea of being able to flip a switch and change tubes and a switch to go from triode to ultra linear (I think the R8 has both of these options). And to me the most fun part of having a tube amp, would be tube rolling. I would like to experiment with different tubes. That might entail different builds but some seem to be better suited to this than others.
I see that the Oddwatts are pretty popular, and he has a KT-88 kit, but it is a bit out of my range and I don’t understand why it would be so expensive. I am sure there are reasons but my idea for at least this build would be as little as possible, with maybe a $500 or so limit (which is around what I would spend on the Yaqin).
Aesthetics are very important to me and I plan on building a case or bookshelf around it just because they are so darn beautiful. My plan would be to get an aluminum chassis and some nice buttons and switches that I like (I am big into the burled aluminum knob with a nice feel and velvet action). Aesthetically, I really like the look of torrid transformers, but apparently they can cause a lot of interference? I would love to have the tubes on top and a big (possibly wound by me) couple of toroidal transformers in back). I saw a really beautiful amp (Cayin CS-150A) with these incredible KT-150s (aesthetically) but it was $6000. Again I can’t figure out how it would cost so much, other than it being “audiophile” gear.. The tubes, while expensive, are under $100 each. I also saw a few tubes that glow blue, and not from LEDs or anything but from fluorescence, but I don’t know how applicable these tubes would be (I read about the Leslie 145 and 147) in an application like this. I am sure many of you can relate that the more exotic looking a tube is, the more it interests me. I love the coke bottle shapes and the pretty logos like Gold Lion. I also have a bit of a fascination with Russian goods and history and would like to experiment with some of that. Having anything strictly vintage isn’t important beyond the aesthetic value. I know my dad has a big cache of tubes from my grandfather and it might be worth designing at least partially around these.
TL’DR
I would like to have a relatively inexpensive tube amp that looks and sounds somewhat like my old MC10L but preferably with more of the features that I would like. I am trying to find out how many watts I need, what topology would be best for me, and what tubes I would like to start with. I am trying to decide on a kit, or a design someone has done previously with easy to follow instructions, or just purchasing another inexpensive amp from China.
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I make a design that might do for you...
I call it the MA-1 modular amplifier.
Here's the main link. There are many tube choices and the coils are affordable.
It can be blank boards, boards with parts (kits) or complete assembled boards. You pick the chassis and layout.
MA-1 Modular amplifier.
Koda
I call it the MA-1 modular amplifier.
Here's the main link. There are many tube choices and the coils are affordable.
It can be blank boards, boards with parts (kits) or complete assembled boards. You pick the chassis and layout.
MA-1 Modular amplifier.
Koda
That is part of my question really. At first I figured I would need to have a push/pull topology but I am not so sure I need that much power. I have been trying to determine that. Having more than enough seems better than not enough, but this 20W Lepai seems to drive them just fine. It would be nice to think about what I might need in the future. With a design like yours, it looks like I could try several combinations to get different output levels?
My designs are push pull. Easier, cheaper, more power, and less THD.
If you need lower power, my Little Miracle might also work. 10W in triode, up to 25W in pentode/UL with the right tubes/coils...
The Little Miracle PCB
If you need lower power, my Little Miracle might also work. 10W in triode, up to 25W in pentode/UL with the right tubes/coils...
The Little Miracle PCB
No. Not at the moment. I'm just word of mouth at the moment, and only on here.
Eventually, I'll make a site at kodasonic.com and perhaps sell on eBay.
I like to keep costs down and margins low so having a proper site would make my stuff more expensive. Shipping from Canada already sucks to be honest. It costs me 10$ to ship an empty box to USA, and 15$ to ROW
What's your level of expertise though? Some boards in a flat envelope can probably pass as letter mail to USA.
Eventually, I'll make a site at kodasonic.com and perhaps sell on eBay.
I like to keep costs down and margins low so having a proper site would make my stuff more expensive. Shipping from Canada already sucks to be honest. It costs me 10$ to ship an empty box to USA, and 15$ to ROW
What's your level of expertise though? Some boards in a flat envelope can probably pass as letter mail to USA.
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I can get by soldering, but I could use some improvement. I definitely can do wiring to a turret and I can passably solder something to a pcb but it would take some practice to make joins good enough to keep.
My technical knowledge of electronics is also somewhat limited but I am all about learning new skills. I was looking for a good book to read on tube amplifiers. I have made some simple projects and a fair amount of simple repairs to audio gear, but not much beyond that. I can fumble through a schematic but I don't know enough to just look at one and be able to build from it. I can certainly put together a kit if there are instructions beyond just a schematic.
My technical knowledge of electronics is also somewhat limited but I am all about learning new skills. I was looking for a good book to read on tube amplifiers. I have made some simple projects and a fair amount of simple repairs to audio gear, but not much beyond that. I can fumble through a schematic but I don't know enough to just look at one and be able to build from it. I can certainly put together a kit if there are instructions beyond just a schematic.
We would remind the members of rule #8. If you want to post here, you must post according to the You might want to check out the Skunkie Designs videos on YouTube.
There are several cool projects ranging from DIY scratch builds to mods of popular Chinese amps. These are some of the most detailed, step by step, explanations of the process you're likely to find anywhere. They're very much oriented towards people like yourself who are interested but inexperienced.
Skunkie Designs Electronics - YouTube
1) If you do not have the education and tools to build and test a tube amplifier then don't. You are working with lethal voltages and there are always issues that needs to be resolved.
Secondly a homebuilt piece of equipment does not get a premium price when trying to sell it.
2) I've had numerous Chinese built amplifiers directly bought from Hong Kong / China and none stayed very long. (too busy to design / build my own) Spend the extra money and get a brand name well regarded amplifier. Check resale values of said brand name, that will give you a decent indication. Enough said.
Oh yeah I have seen a ton of her videos. And I think she posted in the gallery thread. Good stuff! The oddwatts too has very detailed instructions.
Hi there. I don't have the education (yet) but I am working on it and that is why I am here. I have some tools (multimeter, soldering stuff ect) but I don’t have a tube tester or oscilloscope (yet). You have to start somewhere. Why would you discourage someone from getting into this hobby on a DIY forum?
I understand about lethal voltages and know enough to be careful and I know how to check and dissipate capacitors. It has been many years, but I built a fairly big tesla coil in high school for my semester project and that was extremely high voltage.
I don’t know what you mean by getting a premium price for a piece of home built equipment. I am only interested in learning about and building tube amps for myself.
I had pretty good luck with my Yaqin and I think the general consensus is that they are pretty well built and there are certainly some very well built Chinese brands out there, like the Cayin I mentioned earlier.The only reason I am looking for another is because my old one was lost. If I did buy new (and I am probably going to build one) I would for sure buy a Chinese amp. Even some of the high end brands that aren't technically Chinese, like Prima Luna, have everything built over there and I don't think there is any shortage of craftsmanship.
A good public domain book:
https://www.pearl-hifi.com/06_Lit_A...Vol_16/Sec_51/4420_The_Art_of_Electronics.pdf
Thanks! I don't mind purchasing as well if you have any good recommendations. I have a fair understanding of basic electronics and I have been gobbling up everything valve related I can get my hands on.
General electronics theory is very important, or you will be limited to what others have done and made public.
The Art of Electronics 2nd is excellent. When you master that, get the third edition, which is much more advanced.
Just because a tube circuit is in a book, doesn't mean it is a good design, or will even work.
For more tube theory and practice, see this site. No need to buy any new books, it'a all been done.
Don't get confused by books on guitar amplifiers, they aren't relevant to audio.
tubebooks.org - Vintage info from the age of vacuum tubes
The Art of Electronics 2nd is excellent. When you master that, get the third edition, which is much more advanced.
Just because a tube circuit is in a book, doesn't mean it is a good design, or will even work.
For more tube theory and practice, see this site. No need to buy any new books, it'a all been done.
Don't get confused by books on guitar amplifiers, they aren't relevant to audio.
tubebooks.org - Vintage info from the age of vacuum tubes
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