Full Disclosure: I'm a mechanical engineer and know next to nothing about audio!
I've been tasked with specing an audio system for a racing arcade game we are designing.
The idea is to keep the speakers very close to the rider in the seat headrest like this: https://hunsakerusa.com/products/hunsaker-usa-gaming-chair-with-integrated-speaker-enclosures (but we will design our own seat)
The more localized the audio is to the rider without bleeding out to the spectators, the better.
The idea speaker size would be 3-4".
We definitely want a "premium sound" to it, but budget and long-term supply is a real concern as well.
I guess I will need an amp and a way to plug it into the micro PC onboard as well.
Any help would be very much appreciated!!
I've been tasked with specing an audio system for a racing arcade game we are designing.
The idea is to keep the speakers very close to the rider in the seat headrest like this: https://hunsakerusa.com/products/hunsaker-usa-gaming-chair-with-integrated-speaker-enclosures (but we will design our own seat)
The more localized the audio is to the rider without bleeding out to the spectators, the better.
The idea speaker size would be 3-4".
We definitely want a "premium sound" to it, but budget and long-term supply is a real concern as well.
I guess I will need an amp and a way to plug it into the micro PC onboard as well.
Any help would be very much appreciated!!
In the old days audio power from chip amps was expensive. About 10 watts was the limit. Now you can get ten times the output for the same price going class D. Though drivers to handle it are still just as pricey, you have the option of a 4" that has much more impressive and realistic bottom end. Allowable enclosure volume is usually highly limiting in these headrest type designs. Can you verify what is this the low cutoff in the generated audio? Might be a good place to start. Another angle is to see if you can get them to tell you how much money you have to spend on it. Premium gets almost as good that.
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Sound source is close to listeners ears
So not much power is needed.
3" to 4" drivers 1 to 2mm linear travel.
Dont really need more than 5 to 12 watts
LM1875 still available, easy to design with.
Game supply likely have single supply source.
So single supply operation possible with 1875
Since with single supply needs a output capacitor.
the value can be
smaller cause you could put a slight high pass
filter to the 3" or 4" speakers. around 40 or 60 Hz
So less bass distortion with engine rumble effects etc.
And put a butt thumper
/sub in lower seat for engine rumble/ bass.
Dayton drivers readily available and very cost effective.
Sound quality is very good for the price.
Available at parts express.
For production if large lots are needed.
Peerless has large order packages 300 to 2000 pieces.
Also Visaton a good consideration larger orders through digikey
or small orders through parts express , either really.
Posted those links with search filters already set
for 3" to 4" drivers from that manufacture.
likely Dayton PC83-8 = 3" or PC105-8 =4"
Visaton FR10-8 = 4" or FRS8-8 =3.3"
Peerless TCFD0008 =3" or TG9FD1008 = 3.3"
So not much power is needed.
3" to 4" drivers 1 to 2mm linear travel.
Dont really need more than 5 to 12 watts
LM1875 still available, easy to design with.
Game supply likely have single supply source.
So single supply operation possible with 1875
Since with single supply needs a output capacitor.
the value can be
smaller cause you could put a slight high pass
filter to the 3" or 4" speakers. around 40 or 60 Hz
So less bass distortion with engine rumble effects etc.
And put a butt thumper
/sub in lower seat for engine rumble/ bass.
Dayton drivers readily available and very cost effective.
Sound quality is very good for the price.
Available at parts express.
For production if large lots are needed.
Peerless has large order packages 300 to 2000 pieces.
Also Visaton a good consideration larger orders through digikey
or small orders through parts express , either really.
Posted those links with search filters already set
for 3" to 4" drivers from that manufacture.
likely Dayton PC83-8 = 3" or PC105-8 =4"
Visaton FR10-8 = 4" or FRS8-8 =3.3"
Peerless TCFD0008 =3" or TG9FD1008 = 3.3"
What’s your company and how come they haven’t allocated a budget for a consultant for the loudspeaker design?
There are some mechanical engineers by training eg. @hifijim who have done loudspeaker design, but I’m not certain a forum board is a good modality for this project- you’ll get a lot of responses which may end up confusing you even more.
You may be luck consulting privately with the fellow who’s built this:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...rience-with-ultra-near-field-listening.32837/
Also, the reality-TV singing show The Voice (Germany) have seats with built in speakers for the judging panel- they tasked with listen and judging (but not looking) at the contestants.
This design would have to bespoke product, and it has gone through a few different iterations. Premium sound no doubt. (Musicians/judges are a fussy lot)
Can you get in contact with someone from the US show?
There are some mechanical engineers by training eg. @hifijim who have done loudspeaker design, but I’m not certain a forum board is a good modality for this project- you’ll get a lot of responses which may end up confusing you even more.
You may be luck consulting privately with the fellow who’s built this:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...rience-with-ultra-near-field-listening.32837/
Also, the reality-TV singing show The Voice (Germany) have seats with built in speakers for the judging panel- they tasked with listen and judging (but not looking) at the contestants.
This design would have to bespoke product, and it has gone through a few different iterations. Premium sound no doubt. (Musicians/judges are a fussy lot)
Can you get in contact with someone from the US show?
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Did sound for gambling machine seating.
And lighted back displays.
Not rocket science.
5 to 12 watts for ear level
30 to 40 watts for transducer or sub.
And yes some manufactures want sub and transducer.
Transducer fail in field more often than sub.
But easier to integrate. no enclosure
1 to 2 cubic feet fiberglass for sub
8" or 10". usually 10" cutout adaptor
plate to field service with 8" if needed.
If sound is more considered constant
no need for muting and extra micro controller
integration.
Otherwise class D chips for more micro controller
functions. And error feedback if you want the computer
aware of amplifier status. Overheat/shutdown feedback.
So gambling machines are usually rather over engineered.
And include setup and testing signal generators. yada yada
Arcade game in constant demo/ attraction mode and gameplay.
LM1875 single supply, output cap is easy DC protection
and filter. Its always on. 24 volt fan for cooling.
Should be considered " fan less design" heatsink large
enough if fan fails. Fan is enough assurance for 5 or 7 year warranty.
Power supply 3 years , switch mode.
Class D is common for surface mount mass production.
The end , its garbage cross your fingers for 5 years.
Amplifier boards should be modular. unplug old one
plug in new one. 1875 surface mount passive components.
Chip field serviceable through hole. the power supply
will always die first. amplifier keeps going. no computer/micro controller
turns on,off that's it.
And lighted back displays.
Not rocket science.
5 to 12 watts for ear level
30 to 40 watts for transducer or sub.
And yes some manufactures want sub and transducer.
Transducer fail in field more often than sub.
But easier to integrate. no enclosure
1 to 2 cubic feet fiberglass for sub
8" or 10". usually 10" cutout adaptor
plate to field service with 8" if needed.
If sound is more considered constant
no need for muting and extra micro controller
integration.
Otherwise class D chips for more micro controller
functions. And error feedback if you want the computer
aware of amplifier status. Overheat/shutdown feedback.
So gambling machines are usually rather over engineered.
And include setup and testing signal generators. yada yada
Arcade game in constant demo/ attraction mode and gameplay.
LM1875 single supply, output cap is easy DC protection
and filter. Its always on. 24 volt fan for cooling.
Should be considered " fan less design" heatsink large
enough if fan fails. Fan is enough assurance for 5 or 7 year warranty.
Power supply 3 years , switch mode.
Class D is common for surface mount mass production.
The end , its garbage cross your fingers for 5 years.
Amplifier boards should be modular. unplug old one
plug in new one. 1875 surface mount passive components.
Chip field serviceable through hole. the power supply
will always die first. amplifier keeps going. no computer/micro controller
turns on,off that's it.
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This is what I found on the audio spec:
Realtek 7.1 Surround Sound High Definition Audio CODEC*
- Supports: Jack-detection, Multi-streaming, Front Panel Jack-retasking
- Supports up to 24-Bit/192 kHz playback
- Audio Shielding
- Rear optical S/PDIF out port
- Premium audio capacitors
- Dedicated audio PCB layers
- Audio Cover
For essentially a very nearfield use, small BMR fullrange is probably the best solution. They are used very succesfully in Valve Index VR headsets.
https://www.tectonicaudiolabs.com/audio-components/bmr-speakers/
Think square BM36 or roound BMR35. Larger drivers have worse FR and directivity.
They do not play lower than 120..150 Hz (altough in NF it may be compensated depending on the desired maxSPL), so subwoofer is necessary. Maybe a really small subwoofer right behind the head, so sound leakage and required power is minimised.
Tang Band W5-2053 is probably the best candidate, or W69-1042 if more SPL is desired/more enclosure volume available.
https://loudspeakerdatabase.com/TangBand/W5-2053
https://loudspeakerdatabase.com/TangBand/W69-1042J
Maybe even a dipole sub behind the head (or two, each near the ear below the fullrange) with user head in its nearfield - this will bring bass spillover to literally zero and require no box for the driver.
TPA3255 amplifier pairs greatly with this system - it has 4x100 W channels, so we can bridge two to drive the sub and use other two for fullranges, or 2xTPA3116 boards. Both are plentiful and cheap as ready-made solution on ali, so whole-board replacement repair is trivial in case of failure (they are reliable though).
https://aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=tpa3116
https://aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=tpa3255
https://www.tectonicaudiolabs.com/audio-components/bmr-speakers/
Think square BM36 or roound BMR35. Larger drivers have worse FR and directivity.
They do not play lower than 120..150 Hz (altough in NF it may be compensated depending on the desired maxSPL), so subwoofer is necessary. Maybe a really small subwoofer right behind the head, so sound leakage and required power is minimised.
Tang Band W5-2053 is probably the best candidate, or W69-1042 if more SPL is desired/more enclosure volume available.
https://loudspeakerdatabase.com/TangBand/W5-2053
https://loudspeakerdatabase.com/TangBand/W69-1042J
Maybe even a dipole sub behind the head (or two, each near the ear below the fullrange) with user head in its nearfield - this will bring bass spillover to literally zero and require no box for the driver.
TPA3255 amplifier pairs greatly with this system - it has 4x100 W channels, so we can bridge two to drive the sub and use other two for fullranges, or 2xTPA3116 boards. Both are plentiful and cheap as ready-made solution on ali, so whole-board replacement repair is trivial in case of failure (they are reliable though).
https://aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=tpa3116
https://aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=tpa3255
I used to work in a video arcade, so I know the 'guts' of the machines fairly well
I used to drive a Miata with speakers in the headrest, so I'm very familiar with that type of speaker setup
For an arcade, I really don't think that's ideal:
1) Having speakers right by your head is obnoxious
2) When I worked in an arcade, the quality of sound was a big draw. Basically, if you plan on attracting people to play the game, you don't want some tinny little speakers. We were in the habit of reserving these huge cabinets for the games that performed the best, and the audio playback was a big "draw."
If I were making it, I would use speakers that are directional. So that you can have sound that's focused on the people near the machine, while not bleeding over to the rest of the arcade. A cardioid woofer and a waveguide tweeter is the direction I'd go. An array could work well to, but the problem with an array is that it will add a lot of unwanted complexity. In a nutshell, if you have a woofer break in your arcade machine, it will be pretty obvious. But if you're running an array of twenty drivers and one fails, it likely won't be obvious.
Not really? I was just trying to put "premium" in context. I think it means any of the three affordable drivers suggested earlier would be okay. No need to go audiophile /superfi here. The peerless would probably sound pretty good from 6 inches away.
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Wow, thanks for all of your advice guys.
I'm getting a little confused with some conflicting advice, but I think I'm learning a little
The consensus seems to be adding a woofer would go a long way. Some of the smaller, low powered ones you guys are suggesting are interesting. I am a little concerned about adding complexity and failure points, but maybe if I design them to be easily serviced, it won't be much of an issue.
I hear the concern about putting speakers on the headrest (I find them annoying too), but I'm struggling to find another place to put them. I don't have much real-estate on the dash (maybe I could put 2 3" ones there). I have no space on the display area. So the headrest seemed the only logical place.
When you guys are talking about the "LM1875", are you reffering to THIS? This seems to be EOL.
I'm getting a little confused with some conflicting advice, but I think I'm learning a little
The consensus seems to be adding a woofer would go a long way. Some of the smaller, low powered ones you guys are suggesting are interesting. I am a little concerned about adding complexity and failure points, but maybe if I design them to be easily serviced, it won't be much of an issue.
I hear the concern about putting speakers on the headrest (I find them annoying too), but I'm struggling to find another place to put them. I don't have much real-estate on the dash (maybe I could put 2 3" ones there). I have no space on the display area. So the headrest seemed the only logical place.
When you guys are talking about the "LM1875", are you reffering to THIS? This seems to be EOL.