Then explain this to me, as I see a grounding connection there.
This is from a Tandberg receiver.
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Evidence from one preamp is not evidence about all cartridges, and there are counterexamples from the world of preamps. You have to show that one leg is always grounded by all cartridges to sustain your claim, and you haven't done so. In fact you can't.
I love how people tend to argue in online blogs.
Can't figure that crap out.
FYI, ...... ALL stereophonic cartridges have FOUR (sometimes three with a common ground) pins, two of which are SIGNAL GROUNDS.
Consumer audio equipment is designed to accept that design.
In all my years of selling consumer audio, and servicing audio, I see nothing but the facts that I have stated.
You've just proven my point. Why do they have four wires if two of them are signal grounds? Why isn't the earth wire from the TT sufficient?
Try addressing the issue.
Try addressing the issue.
Sorry, it seems I mixed up stuff here.
This is a slightly dim memory for me, mixing up personal experiences as a teenager, mostly using din-rca adapter cables, and everything-german-is-better-lore from my father.
The benefit of 5p-din that i remember correctly is that cable screen is not connected to signal ground, like in xlr.
But there is one ground for all signals, the other two connections are record connections, i.e. in the other direction, which it makes sense to ground if not used with a tape.
Regarding the preamplification, maybe my question should have rather been why did it evolve that all the amplifiers had the riaa correction and level compensation integrated instead the turntables?
It does make sense for tube tech and line level motors, but as soon as you have semiconductors and dc motors surely the power supply can be shared, or at least the transformer.
Well. I am not going to buy any new stuff (hope to find the time at some point to reactivate the inherited (nongerman 😉 ) transscriptor and rabco arm instead, which are not in the best shape), so maybe the question is moot.
This is a slightly dim memory for me, mixing up personal experiences as a teenager, mostly using din-rca adapter cables, and everything-german-is-better-lore from my father.
The benefit of 5p-din that i remember correctly is that cable screen is not connected to signal ground, like in xlr.
But there is one ground for all signals, the other two connections are record connections, i.e. in the other direction, which it makes sense to ground if not used with a tape.
Regarding the preamplification, maybe my question should have rather been why did it evolve that all the amplifiers had the riaa correction and level compensation integrated instead the turntables?
It does make sense for tube tech and line level motors, but as soon as you have semiconductors and dc motors surely the power supply can be shared, or at least the transformer.
Well. I am not going to buy any new stuff (hope to find the time at some point to reactivate the inherited (nongerman 😉 ) transscriptor and rabco arm instead, which are not in the best shape), so maybe the question is moot.
What has a receiver got to do with my comments on tonearm wiring? Answer: NOTHING.
You mean like you do? Projecting much?
Wrong. For a start Philips used to make cartridges with 5 pins. Secondly if the only connection to 2 pins is a coil, how is one of those pins ground?
No. Many tonearms have a 5 pin DIN connector on them, just a different size to the DIN connector that hifi used to (and in the case of NAIM still does) use. A better connector than RCA by almost any parameter you might think of other than snakeoilability.
And so it descends into willy waving. Very low grade willy waving...
Another one insisting on disagreeing and argumentive...
"For a start Philips used to make cartridges with 5 pins."
USED to?..... used to?
More silly talk.
This is tiring, I'm done here.
"For a start Philips used to make cartridges with 5 pins."
USED to?..... used to?
More silly talk.
This is tiring, I'm done here.
1) Balanced has nothing to do with having a ground connection or even producing opposite polarity signals wrt gnd.
Balanced only means that both signals have the same (balanced) output impedances.
2)When inputs receiving balanced lines also have the same (balanced) but much higher input impedances, Common Mode pick up in the interconnect lines will be suppressed, that's its whole purpose.
3) Four wires connected to two coils have nothing to do with any gnd reference and are floating as long as they are not connected to gnd as in most MM carts or at the RCA input of the Phono Preamp.
4) A din connection with 5 wires is capable of carrying 4 floating balanced lines from 2 coils plus one line to extend the PE from the Pre Amp chassis into the cable shielding and to the TT Chassis and Arm.
5) connecting a Cart to gnd, could potentially lead to gnd loops when the cable shield carries PE instead of signal gnd.
Hans
Balanced only means that both signals have the same (balanced) output impedances.
2)When inputs receiving balanced lines also have the same (balanced) but much higher input impedances, Common Mode pick up in the interconnect lines will be suppressed, that's its whole purpose.
3) Four wires connected to two coils have nothing to do with any gnd reference and are floating as long as they are not connected to gnd as in most MM carts or at the RCA input of the Phono Preamp.
4) A din connection with 5 wires is capable of carrying 4 floating balanced lines from 2 coils plus one line to extend the PE from the Pre Amp chassis into the cable shielding and to the TT Chassis and Arm.
5) connecting a Cart to gnd, could potentially lead to gnd loops when the cable shield carries PE instead of signal gnd.
Hans
4)...... Is capable yes, but this is not how it´s done the DIN standard way.
The two "cold" are put together at pin-2, and the plug-tube carries the screen/chassis connection.
The two "cold" are put together at pin-2, and the plug-tube carries the screen/chassis connection.
When buying a phono cable with 5pin din connector no connections are made internally that I know off.
All 4 Cart connections are separately led to two RCA connectors and the extra wire with lug connects to the cables shielding and to the Din’s connecector pin 2.
What happens outside the cable is up to the supplier of the TT and the Phono preamp.
The picture is just meant as an example, there are of course much cheaper versions.
Hans
.
All 4 Cart connections are separately led to two RCA connectors and the extra wire with lug connects to the cables shielding and to the Din’s connecector pin 2.
What happens outside the cable is up to the supplier of the TT and the Phono preamp.
The picture is just meant as an example, there are of course much cheaper versions.
Hans
.
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Good.
I've never seen that, any examples of tonearms wired that way? My SME has 3 ground wires, one for each STP run screen and one for the tonearm chassis.
This was really useful, thanks. In particular, I had no idea of the difference between balanced and differential.
I guess a lot of my thoughts about avoiding RCA-type single-ended cabling came from wondering what the phono preamp input stage was doing to the ground signals (the outer conductors of the RCA sockets). But then, I guess good single ended phono preamps will always treat that conductor as audio-gnd-ref, not allow it to pick up noise, etc.
All this now makes me wonder about another idea: what do you think of the idea of using 2-core+shield cables for these connections, and connecting the cable shield to the outer connector of the RCA socket at one end? Something like this: Pseudo-Differential Cable: Connect unbalanced source to balanced input – Neurochrome except that one can use RCA plugs at both ends, and connect the shield to the gnd-ref conductor of the RCA plug at one end. Will this sort of thing help reduce noise pickup?
I have Aesthetix Io Phono stage. It has balanced input and output. I built a pair of balanced phono cable years ago. Personally, I can't hear too much of difference between single-end and balanced. Actually, I prefer single-end slightly over the balanced cable. Here was the way I wired the balanced cable. I would like to hear any suggestions if I should wire the cable differently.
