Hi,
I couldn't really find an answer to this...
https://www.parts-express.com/Wavecor-WF168WA02-6-1-2-Paper-Cone-Mid-Woofer-8-Ohm-298-1190
Q&A section: "BassBox sees over excursion starting about 120 Hz"
So does this mean that at 120w of power you'll start to hear distortion at 120Hz and damage the driver if you go much lower at full power?
To go lower than 120Hz you have to send less watts, "weakening" the bass?
Achieving 60Hz you need use a lot less watts?
With the 120w 120Hz example above adding a second identical driver allows you to put 60w into each driver to give you much less excursion for the same 120Hz bass output, therefore you can go lower Hz with more powerful bass?
I'm struggling with all the abbreviations (like FS, FB, and F3) so please explain it like I'm 5.
I need to look at modelling, is there an easier, more beginner software to use, preferably with a Mac version and either free or under say $50?
Like most of my hobbies I'll be more jack of all trades with this.
Thanks.
Richard
I couldn't really find an answer to this...
https://www.parts-express.com/Wavecor-WF168WA02-6-1-2-Paper-Cone-Mid-Woofer-8-Ohm-298-1190
Q&A section: "BassBox sees over excursion starting about 120 Hz"
So does this mean that at 120w of power you'll start to hear distortion at 120Hz and damage the driver if you go much lower at full power?
To go lower than 120Hz you have to send less watts, "weakening" the bass?
Achieving 60Hz you need use a lot less watts?
With the 120w 120Hz example above adding a second identical driver allows you to put 60w into each driver to give you much less excursion for the same 120Hz bass output, therefore you can go lower Hz with more powerful bass?
I'm struggling with all the abbreviations (like FS, FB, and F3) so please explain it like I'm 5.
I need to look at modelling, is there an easier, more beginner software to use, preferably with a Mac version and either free or under say $50?
Like most of my hobbies I'll be more jack of all trades with this.
Thanks.
Richard
Power figures in driver specs is practically a meaningless value.
Your drive unit will be fried sooner than you'd guess.
Beware, there is no warranty for that.
edit: assume your driver can endure 10kW of power dissipation for 1 femtosecond.
Your drive unit will be fried sooner than you'd guess.
Beware, there is no warranty for that.
edit: assume your driver can endure 10kW of power dissipation for 1 femtosecond.
Last edited:
Thanks, forget the manufacturer power figure then, how is over excursion measured/tested, is it at a specified power level then?
Unknown on Mac software, but WinISD is free and relatively simple to use. You will need to read up on the various terms though. Really no way around that. Just make sure you're using the correct units when you plug stuff in.
Short version on this particular driver: if you model this thing in their recommended box, and push 60w RMS into it, you'll hit 3mm of excursion at 115hz (at least according to winisd). So I'm guessing that's what the staff guy is talking about. 60w RMS would also be extremely loud, at least until the driver broke.
The power rating on drivers has to do with temperature and current carrying capability.
How low that driver can play will depend on a lot of stuff (room size, listening distance, using bass management like on a receiver?, how loud, etc, etc)
Short version on this particular driver: if you model this thing in their recommended box, and push 60w RMS into it, you'll hit 3mm of excursion at 115hz (at least according to winisd). So I'm guessing that's what the staff guy is talking about. 60w RMS would also be extremely loud, at least until the driver broke.
The power rating on drivers has to do with temperature and current carrying capability.
How low that driver can play will depend on a lot of stuff (room size, listening distance, using bass management like on a receiver?, how loud, etc, etc)
Thanks!
WinISD gotcha.
I've a lot to learn, OK, lets say all parameters are equal, the wavecor drivers, same room and distance, no bass management, 20L aperiodic cabinet per driver, separate cabinets stacked and a 60Hz bass signal.
Will the two drivers move the same air (as one driver) at half the watts (per driver), so much less distortion from excursion and much cleaner bass?
Obviously size matters with bass, you'd need maybe four of the wavecors to move as much air as a 12" woofer right?
WinISD gotcha.
I've a lot to learn, OK, lets say all parameters are equal, the wavecor drivers, same room and distance, no bass management, 20L aperiodic cabinet per driver, separate cabinets stacked and a 60Hz bass signal.
Will the two drivers move the same air (as one driver) at half the watts (per driver), so much less distortion from excursion and much cleaner bass?
Obviously size matters with bass, you'd need maybe four of the wavecors to move as much air as a 12" woofer right?
Assume you're talking about bass reflex, not aperiodic. BR is a normal ported box, aperiodic is another thing.
In general: going from 1 woofer to 2 (keeping tuning frequency the same) will double power handling, double enclosure volume, and add 6db of output, while keeping the frequency response curve the same shape (it just bumps up if you're looking at a graph). You could use that extra "oomph" to change the enclosure tuning if that is what you were after.
Best bet is to get a modeling program up and running and start playing with your ideas. See what happens when you change things.
In general: going from 1 woofer to 2 (keeping tuning frequency the same) will double power handling, double enclosure volume, and add 6db of output, while keeping the frequency response curve the same shape (it just bumps up if you're looking at a graph). You could use that extra "oomph" to change the enclosure tuning if that is what you were after.
Best bet is to get a modeling program up and running and start playing with your ideas. See what happens when you change things.
I find WinISD to be among the simplest free box models...
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/threads/winisd-on-a-mac-using-wineskin.452344/
Keep in mind that this only helps with the low end of a woofer or mid's response.
Thanks, I was talking aperiodic, as in a breathing enclosure (picked up on it in another thread).
"You could use that extra "oomph" to change the enclosure tuning", so by "enclosure tuning" you mean changing the BR port?
I'm going to install WinISD right now.
"You could use that extra "oomph" to change the enclosure tuning", so by "enclosure tuning" you mean changing the BR port?
I'm going to install WinISD right now.
FS is the natural resonant frequency of a driver. Look at an impedance curve and you'll see it peaks at the low end. This is a point where the suspension and mass are so efficient barely any power needs to be used to emit sound at this point. That point moves when you put it in a box but you use it for box simulations. Almost every dynamic driver has an impedance peak, except perhaps AMTs.
F3 is the -3 dB point, usually for a box I think.
F3 is the -3 dB point, usually for a box I think.
I would ignore aperiodic stuff until you've got a handle on basic sealed and bass reflex design.
You can increase enclosure size, as well as moving the port tuning frequency, or both. But there's no free lunch. As an example, you can get a smaller driver to extend down in frequency a bit if you accept the whole bass region being reduced by a few db, and a lower max output volume. All of which might be acceptable if you're planning for the speakers to sit close to a wall (this boosts bass), or listen up close at a desk (don't need much max volume at all). There are limits to how far you can take it, but that will be obvious as you learn WinISD.
Just a note to say that I cant get this to work, 32bit engines are no longer available in the version of wineskin I just installed. I'm going to fire up the Windows PC.
Driver is rated at 60 watts
Speaker can only move so far forward/back till it reaches
10% distortion.
So excursion rated in Xmax where it reaches 10% distortion
Which you can view in cone excursion window in sim
Fs is resonant frequency
which is where you tune.
Depending only alignment
usually not more than 5 to 7 Hz above/below
No magic fantasies, or magic to make more
bass. the speaker is what it is. In a specified
volume that a alignment will give you.
Fb is frequency you tune to.
F3 is -3dB point of frequency response.
below Fb or below your tune frequency.
The speaker looses control or unloads.
The hole in the box, basically starts to behave
like a hole in a box in all simplicity.
No longer resonant at its tuned frequency.
this unloading can be viewed in cone excursion screen
in model as well.
60 watts being the thermal rating 120 watts a make belief
number. Expect in normal ported to reach 10% distortion
way way before you put in enough power to hit thermal rating
I guess with sim you can see the difference
to closer to real world power, than most fantasy
watts that people think their system is running on
Speaker can only move so far forward/back till it reaches
10% distortion.
So excursion rated in Xmax where it reaches 10% distortion
Which you can view in cone excursion window in sim
Fs is resonant frequency
which is where you tune.
Depending only alignment
usually not more than 5 to 7 Hz above/below
No magic fantasies, or magic to make more
bass. the speaker is what it is. In a specified
volume that a alignment will give you.
Fb is frequency you tune to.
F3 is -3dB point of frequency response.
below Fb or below your tune frequency.
The speaker looses control or unloads.
The hole in the box, basically starts to behave
like a hole in a box in all simplicity.
No longer resonant at its tuned frequency.
this unloading can be viewed in cone excursion screen
in model as well.
60 watts being the thermal rating 120 watts a make belief
number. Expect in normal ported to reach 10% distortion
way way before you put in enough power to hit thermal rating
I guess with sim you can see the difference
to closer to real world power, than most fantasy
watts that people think their system is running on