Everyone has different goals for their audio system. The OPs goal right now should be learning how to model the baffle effects that alter the woofer response.
I have a 10" 2-way.
I've crossed several tweeters below 1.5k
An 8" 2-way can be done well. It really depends on what you want, and like.
I have a 10" 2-way.
I've crossed several tweeters below 1.5k
An 8" 2-way can be done well. It really depends on what you want, and like.
That's just a sim. Speaker was not built. It was a very capable 10" woofer, combined with an RS100P, I think.
yes 8" aluminum cone to 1" dome is sketchy. ironically my one Dayton driver was also aluminum - the 2" dome. the breakup was HORRENDOUS, and in case of that driver the build quality was a joke as well.
all in all i had dome mids from Scan Speak, Morel and Dayton and i rate them as follows:
Scan Speak - 9 out of 10
Morel - 7 out of 10
Dayton - 2 out of 10
i think with a cone aluminum breakup may be not as bad as with dome because surround may damp some of it but also with 8" cone breakup is much lower in frequency than with a 2" dome.
i think Dayton uses Aluminum so much because it's a cheap material that Newbies think is superior to paper but in actual reality for 99% of applications paper is superior.
aluminum is only really good for dome tweeters and subwoofers IMO.
I actually quite like this. Wonder if i try to simulate this thing in my enclosure and ported.
Also... AugerPro has an 8" 3D printable waveguide for the RST28F-A. That tweeter goes quite low and in a waveguide could easily work in a 8" two way.
Having said that, 8" two ways are hard and you will make things easier for yourself if you used a smaller woofer, and possibly something not aluminum.
Having said that, 8" two ways are hard and you will make things easier for yourself if you used a smaller woofer, and possibly something not aluminum.
What if i then use RS225P-8A 8 inch paper version, tweeter for ex. RST28F-A and a midrange?
I can then xover RS225P-8A lower down when cone breakup doesnt yet start?
I can then xover RS225P-8A lower down when cone breakup doesnt yet start?
"I am kind of intimidated by building a 3 way exactly because of xover design. Maybe a bigger tweeter with a waveguide as you said or a smaller woofer. Maybe RS225 with something like https://sbacoustics.com/product/sb26cdc-c000-4/ and a midrange?"
one thing you can do which is actually commonly done in professional audio is you can do a passive crossover from midrange to tweeter and an active DSP crossover from midrange to woofer.
this may seem complicated but there are good reasons to do this. midrange will usually be the least efficient driver and with this approach you only need to pad down the tweeter with resistors which is easy. your entire passive crossover will use small size capacitors and inductors for cost saving and will also be simple.
you will also be able to use a big cheap amp for woofer and a small audiophile amp for mid and tweeter.
if you go this route i suggest you also use separate cabinets for the mid-tweeter pair and for the woofer. that way you can separately upgrade them later.
SB acoustics ( brand ) is better than Dayton ( brand ) IMO yes.
not sure why you want to use that RS225. if using a midrange you can go much bigger than 8" on the woofer which will result in better performance.
actually do this: 4-way, but only 2-way top is passive. the passive one is 1" dome in waveguide and 5" midrange with 2.5 khz crossover. from there go to separate box with 12" woofer and another box with 18" subwoofer with 250 hz and 80 hz crossovers respectively.
google image search for "vandersteen speakers" to see how this works in practice. vandersteen put every driver in its own box but they were all glued together. in your case you simply stack them on top of each other that way each one is separately upgradeable.
you only need to be afraid of PERMANENT decisions. if you can replace any driver or box or crossover there is nothing to be afraid of.
reality is nobody is ever happy with their 1st speaker forever. no matter how hard you try to get it perfect you will some day decide you want better. instead of trying to get it right focus on leaving yourself options to upgrade later without having to destroy or throw away things.
keep everything accessible / modular / replaceable / upgradable. do not seal anything permanently into the box. and to extent possible use separate boxes for woofers than midranges.
one thing you can do which is actually commonly done in professional audio is you can do a passive crossover from midrange to tweeter and an active DSP crossover from midrange to woofer.
this may seem complicated but there are good reasons to do this. midrange will usually be the least efficient driver and with this approach you only need to pad down the tweeter with resistors which is easy. your entire passive crossover will use small size capacitors and inductors for cost saving and will also be simple.
you will also be able to use a big cheap amp for woofer and a small audiophile amp for mid and tweeter.
if you go this route i suggest you also use separate cabinets for the mid-tweeter pair and for the woofer. that way you can separately upgrade them later.
SB acoustics ( brand ) is better than Dayton ( brand ) IMO yes.
not sure why you want to use that RS225. if using a midrange you can go much bigger than 8" on the woofer which will result in better performance.
actually do this: 4-way, but only 2-way top is passive. the passive one is 1" dome in waveguide and 5" midrange with 2.5 khz crossover. from there go to separate box with 12" woofer and another box with 18" subwoofer with 250 hz and 80 hz crossovers respectively.
google image search for "vandersteen speakers" to see how this works in practice. vandersteen put every driver in its own box but they were all glued together. in your case you simply stack them on top of each other that way each one is separately upgradeable.
you only need to be afraid of PERMANENT decisions. if you can replace any driver or box or crossover there is nothing to be afraid of.
reality is nobody is ever happy with their 1st speaker forever. no matter how hard you try to get it perfect you will some day decide you want better. instead of trying to get it right focus on leaving yourself options to upgrade later without having to destroy or throw away things.
keep everything accessible / modular / replaceable / upgradable. do not seal anything permanently into the box. and to extent possible use separate boxes for woofers than midranges.
yes i actually have Mackie monitors that are 2-way with 8" woofer BUT THE TWEETER IS IN A WAVEGUIDE. i believe the drivers are Vifa and the woofer is coated paper while the tweeter is aluminum / magnesium 1" dome.
to match directivity of tweeter and woofer you can go down in size of woofer until it has wide directivity ( say 5" woofer ) or you can use a waveguide to narrow directivity of tweeter until it matches that of the larger ( say 8" ) woofer.
the problem is that you significantly narrow your options for tweeter if you must have one with a large and deep waveguide. Mackie made their own waveguide for the Vifa tweeter, and if you can 3D print your own that is of course an option as well.
if you must for whatever reason use 8" woofer you could make a very good 3-way with a 3" dome midrange.
it's just that 3-ways can handle a larger woofer and there is no replacement for displacement.
that is a 3-way with a 12" woofer will be more valuable than a 3-way with 8" woofer while being similar in complexity.
you could use this midragne:
https://audioxpress.com/article/test-bench-tb-speaker-75-1558sh-high-end-home-audio-3-dome-midrange
from 800 hz to 2.5 khz for example.
but it would be a strange speaker. i would rather do a 3-way with a cone midrange and 12" woofer and mid to woofer crossover around 400 hz.
Full spinorama can show if it is good. I don't see the traces of cone breakup - either the crossovers is very steep or the scale is small enough not to see. Up to +30dB you can hear it with untrained ear.
Even if it sounds strange i like this idea for the first project. The midrange you provided has its own enclosure and i like that.
What about coaxial mid/tweeter? Just thinking
https://www.seas.no/index.php?optio...=583:seas-kingro4y-mk-iii&catid=66&Itemid=345
This looks nice, but its DSP. Maybe can be done with passive x over? Mybe impossible
https://www.seas.no/index.php?optio...=583:seas-kingro4y-mk-iii&catid=66&Itemid=345
This looks nice, but its DSP. Maybe can be done with passive x over? Mybe impossible
my first speaker was a 3-way with a dome mid. it was a 10" Focal yellow kevlar woofer, 2" morel dome mid and 19mm hiquphon tweeter. crossover points were 650 hz and 3 khz. this i was almost 30 years ago.
i made all the same mistakes as you are trying to make - i went for a woofer with fancy cone instead of paper. i went for a woofer that was too big for how high in frequency i was taking it - too close to breakup. i had no baffle step compensation.
i made many other mistakes as well.
but a fabric soft dome midrange is very easy to work with because it has inherently smooth response that simplifies crossover design. the main downside to dome mids is they don't go very low in frequency. but if your woofer is small that is not a problem. my 10" woofer was too big for my 2" dome mid but a 8" woofer is about right for a 3" dome mid.
even with a relatively small midrange like a 3" dome i would still recommend SOME waveguide on the tweeter, but it doesn't need to be big in this case.
just a small waveguide like this is easier to find:
https://www.parts-express.com/Morel-CAT-378-1-1-8-Soft-Dome-Horn-Tweeter-277-084?quantity=1
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Reason for dayton audio is i can get it cheap here and fast.
https://www.daytonaudio.com/product/1564/rs52fn-8-2-reference-fabric-dome-midrange-8-ohm
This dome mid is from them, it has quite a good response
https://www.daytonaudio.com/product/1564/rs52fn-8-2-reference-fabric-dome-midrange-8-ohm
This dome mid is from them, it has quite a good response
If your are interested in a 3" dome midrange, the HiVi DM7500 is pretty good and much less than the Tang Band. But a 3-way is quite the difficult build for as first speaker design.
Maybe these three:
RS225P - 8" 8 ohm paper version
RS52FN 2" 8 ohm fabric dome midrange
RST28F-4 1-1/8" 4 ohm fabric dome tweeter
Considering SPL charts these should work fairly well together, could get them to be smooth. Given RS225P fits in my box, and this combo would not kill my wallet.
RS225P - 8" 8 ohm paper version
RS52FN 2" 8 ohm fabric dome midrange
RST28F-4 1-1/8" 4 ohm fabric dome tweeter
Considering SPL charts these should work fairly well together, could get them to be smooth. Given RS225P fits in my box, and this combo would not kill my wallet.
this is the soft dome version of aluminum Dayton dome i had. these are cheaply made. they weigh almost nothing - like an empty beer can. also it lists QTS of 1.05 which if true is beyond laughable. QTS should never be above 0.7
for a driver with integrated rear chamber i would want to see QTS of about 0.4
for a driver that doesn't have a chamber i would want to see a QTS of about 0.3 ( QTS will go up once in a chamber )
it is not necessary to use expensive drivers but you should try to use a driver that somebody has measured and concluded that it's a quality driver, or at least use a driver from a company that has a solid reputation.
i don't recommend using Dayton dome midranges.
you have to understand driver cost is mainly a function of voice coil diameter and dome midranges have large voice coil diameters so they aren't very cheap.
but dome mids are a lot more sensitive than cone mids and also have smoother top end and are smaller. so in some designs they may be the right choice.
dome midranges are popular in mid-field studio monitors, often used with AMT type tweeters like this:
https://www.parts-express.com/Aurum-Cantus-AST2560-Aero-Striction-Tweeter-276-440?quantity=1
essentially a dome midrange is a premium type of midrange used in small but high-end 3-way speakers, for example:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1086804-REG/neumann_kh_420_3_way_studio.html
that's $5,000 for ONE speaker ( $10,000 / pair ) using 3" dome mid and 10" woofer.
Neumann is the world's most famous maker of microphones. people pay $10,000 for USED neumann microphones that are decades old !
a 3-way like this plus a subwoofer would make for a fairly serious setup.
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that is a $500 driver
https://audioxpress.com/article/test-bench-seas-e0060-08-06-6-5-king-coax
and because the cone is metal you would want fairly steep crossover slopes on it, perhaps at 1.5 khz or so.
this doesn't strike me as a good candidate for first speaker. this is more like a specialty driver that you use when you know exactly what you want and why and are willing to pay for it.
i think combined with DSP it would make for a super accurate compact near field monitor, kind of like that SEAS kit.
it seems to be SEAS attempt to recreate similar coaxial monitors from Genelec. those are well regarded but small, low output and very expensive. they are not general purpose speakers - these are specialized professional tools.
any crossover you make will not be accurate enough for use in a Near Field Studio Monitor and for a general purpose speaker it will be too expensive and not loud enough.
and if you just buy the seas kit that already has the DSP XO then what exactly do you learn by building it ?
at that rate you may as well just buy a Genelec monitor.
you really should decide whether you want cheap ( $40 dayton ) or you want $500 SEAS
that Dayton is probably the cheapest dome midrange on the market while that Seas is probably the most expensive "midrange"
the drivers i linked were only examples, and even then they were closer to the middle of that range.
i think a good amount of money to spend on drivers would be about $70 on a tweeter, about $100 on dome midrange and about $150 on a 8" woofer.