Duke58: "I'd rather listen to music."
If that is so, then why are you attacking improving the musical naturalness and experience?
Afterall, DIY forum is for improving the musical experience is it not??
And nobody forced you to post in this string.
By the way, it is basic science not opinion. If you had taken even a basic course in electronics,
you would have understood what I was presenting.
cheers
pos
If that is so, then why are you attacking improving the musical naturalness and experience?
Afterall, DIY forum is for improving the musical experience is it not??
And nobody forced you to post in this string.
By the way, it is basic science not opinion. If you had taken even a basic course in electronics,
you would have understood what I was presenting.
cheers
pos
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Duke58: "I'd rather listen to music."
If that is so, then why are you attacking improving the musical naturalness and experience?
Afterall, DIY forum is for improving the musical experience is it not??
And nobody forced you to post in this string.
By the way, it is basic science not opinion. If you had taken even a basic course in electronics,
you would have understood what I was presenting.
cheers
pos
cheers pos-
I'm not attacking, just saying that your opinion has been noted, but I disagree. No one can tell another person something subjective as the "best" tube, amplifier, speaker or genre of music is actually "best." Impossible because its subjective. That's why we have several religions, political views, etc.
Basic science is objective. That's why we have laws and theories. Laws of physics are the same every time you test. Opinions are closer to theory because you call it a theory because the results are not always the same. The results are dependent on the variables. Just like music depends on the musical playback. Different electronic components don't sound the same as they test to everybody. If it were that simple, life would be boring and uninteresting. I could have walked to Wally Woofers and bought the perfect system long ago, not bothered to learn anything about electronics. Funny that I never took a course in electronics, but all those amplifiers and other gear all over my house just appeared.
So yes, I understand what you are presenting. I disagree when someone asks for best tube recommendation because I don't know your musical preferences and no one tube that meets my preferences/criteria might not meet your preferences. So why ask? I prefer listening to music, rather than reading opinions. Maybe in heaven there is a perfect sound system, but we may not agree that there is a heaven.
If that is so, then why are you attacking improving the musical naturalness and experience?
Afterall, DIY forum is for improving the musical experience is it not??
And nobody forced you to post in this string.
By the way, it is basic science not opinion. If you had taken even a basic course in electronics,
you would have understood what I was presenting.
cheers
pos
cheers pos-
I'm not attacking, just saying that your opinion has been noted, but I disagree. No one can tell another person something subjective as the "best" tube, amplifier, speaker or genre of music is actually "best." Impossible because its subjective. That's why we have several religions, political views, etc.
Basic science is objective. That's why we have laws and theories. Laws of physics are the same every time you test. Opinions are closer to theory because you call it a theory because the results are not always the same. The results are dependent on the variables. Just like music depends on the musical playback. Different electronic components don't sound the same as they test to everybody. If it were that simple, life would be boring and uninteresting. I could have walked to Wally Woofers and bought the perfect system long ago, not bothered to learn anything about electronics. Funny that I never took a course in electronics, but all those amplifiers and other gear all over my house just appeared.
So yes, I understand what you are presenting. I disagree when someone asks for best tube recommendation because I don't know your musical preferences and no one tube that meets my preferences/criteria might not meet your preferences. So why ask? I prefer listening to music, rather than reading opinions. Maybe in heaven there is a perfect sound system, but we may not agree that there is a heaven.
"I'm not attacking, just saying that your opinion has been noted, but I disagree."
"No one can tell another person something subjective as the "best" tube, amplifier, speaker or genre of music is actually "best." Impossible because its subjective. That's why we have several religions, political views, etc."
"Basic science is objective. That's why we have laws and theories. Laws of physics are the same every time you test. Opinions are closer to theory because you call it a theory because the results are not always the same. The results are dependent on the variables. Just like music depends on the musical playback. Different electronic components don't sound the same as they test to everybody. If it were that simple, life would be boring and uninteresting. I could have walked to Wally Woofers and bought the perfect system long ago, not bothered to learn anything about electronics. Funny that I never took a course in electronics, but all those amplifiers and other gear all over my house just appeared.
So yes, I understand what you are presenting."
pos
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"Sorry to sound rude, but you have absolutely No idea of what I am discussing, or science, so please just leave and stop muddying the string."
It is the other way around. And it takes much more than that to offend me. At this age, thin skin would have me offended and irritated at all times. Someone asked about the 5881 tube and I responded with my opinion. That's all it is, based on my experience, and that's what you were asking.
It is the other way around. And it takes much more than that to offend me. At this age, thin skin would have me offended and irritated at all times. Someone asked about the 5881 tube and I responded with my opinion. That's all it is, based on my experience, and that's what you were asking.
When you start your post with- "New Tung Sol 6550 vs KT120 vs KT150 Sonic Comparison" The string is muddy to begin with.
I'd rather listen to some music.
It was you, not us, who asked for opinions. And it is your very own point of view, which might be ok so far. As I said before, owl vs. nightingale, you recall? But, please, don't call that science! Science primarily is all about measurements. Of course there might be differences in measurements between three different tubes. And of course, sonic impressions can be measured also. Anyway, it takes a representative number of people to perform a double blinded test, not only a single person who isn't even blinded, to get representative results.
Sorry, but I have to fully agree with Duke58: You are the one who »muddyfies the water«. Entry #23, e. g., shows it, as it remains unclear who was citing whom. And I think you're not interested at all to be enlightened by statements that don't comply with your pre-fabricated opinion.
Best regards!
"When you start your post with- "New Tung Sol 6550 vs KT120 vs KT150 Sonic Comparison" The string is muddy to begin with."
Nothing is stated about being better or worse. Did you read my first post?"Has anyone performed a sonic comparison between the three tubes? Do they sound exactly alike, or
sonically different? If different, how sonically different?
How about longevity?
Thanks
pos"
or Post #10 in response to Kay's post.
"Ah, we are talking about if the TS tubes sound the same or Not the same; NOT what we prefer one over another.
There is a basic difference."
Again, nothing about better or worse, but if different, and how. Information is free, and often individuals are willing
to help by lending their experience. Maybe I can ascertain if I can simply replace the TS 6550 with the TS KT120 for the same
sound, or if the TS KT120 sounds different. If different, could I tweak/redesign for the KT120. A little information could really
help, a couple of points.
1. The TS 6550 sounds perfect in my monoblocks. If the TS KT120 sounds the same, I might purchase it for longer tube life.
I have noticed that running the TS 6550s rather easy that the side getters are collecting gas after
just a few hundred hours. I have not seen that often, over the years with other output tubes with side getters.
2. If the TS KT120 sounds the same, I have the option of operating the tubes even easier, or going higher power output while
still running the TS KT120s easy. It would give me options.
cheers
pos
I asked for a basic listening test for a sonic difference. It either sounds the same or it does not. Reread my reply post to you, #10.
1. Please prove that dbt listening testing equates to normal listening when sight is not a factor?
2. If a group of individuals, test subjects, are in a room, and half are in bass increasing nodes and half are
in bass decreasing nodes, how does one obtain a 95% confidence result?
(Are you sure you really want to go there and derail this thread even more?)
Post #23 is in response to post #22, so read #22. Post #10 is very clear, and directed to you Kay. I do understand
that English may not be your first language.
My responses are in the boxes in post #23.
cheers
pos
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Positron- When a positron collides with an electron, annihilation occurs. If this collision occurs at low energies, it results in the production of two or more photons. I don't know what a "pos" is. Would you call an electron a tron?
I know that this isn't your PhD dissertation because you wouldn't be posting on the DIY Audio website. Personally, I don't peruse DIY Audio websites to to learn about physics, mathematics, statistics, etc.
And I normally don't read postings asking about someone's OPINION regarding which tube sounds best, which cable, blah, blah, blah. And I'm not going to go back and reread any posts, especially since English is my first language. I learned long ago that arguing on the internet as a way to enlighten, edify or preach is a big waste of time. So why bother?
I'm going to go listen to music, get off the internet and have a Happy Sunday.
Hope you do too!
I know that this isn't your PhD dissertation because you wouldn't be posting on the DIY Audio website. Personally, I don't peruse DIY Audio websites to to learn about physics, mathematics, statistics, etc.
And I normally don't read postings asking about someone's OPINION regarding which tube sounds best, which cable, blah, blah, blah. And I'm not going to go back and reread any posts, especially since English is my first language. I learned long ago that arguing on the internet as a way to enlighten, edify or preach is a big waste of time. So why bother?
I'm going to go listen to music, get off the internet and have a Happy Sunday.
Hope you do too!
Positron- When a positron collides with an electron, annihilation occurs. If this collision occurs at low energies, it results in the production of two or more photons. I don't know what a "pos" is. Would you call an electron a tron?
I know that this isn't your PhD dissertation because you wouldn't be posting on the DIY Audio website. Personally, I don't peruse DIY Audio websites to to learn about physics, mathematics, statistics, etc.
And I normally don't read postings asking about someone's OPINION regarding which tube sounds best, which cable, blah, blah, blah. And I'm not going to go back and reread any posts, especially since English is my first language. I learned long ago that arguing on the internet as a way to enlighten, edify or preach is a big waste of time. So why bother?
I'm going to go listen to music, get off the internet and have a Happy Sunday.
Hope you do too!
Hi Duke,
I might sneak a nap this afternoon. Sounds like a good idea.
A tron sounds pretty good.
I also don’t frequent diy forums very often.
I think something we can agree on is that if a question
exists, we ask for further information. I include myself.
Cheers and all the best.
pos
I know that this isn't your PhD dissertation because you wouldn't be posting on the DIY Audio website. Personally, I don't peruse DIY Audio websites to to learn about physics, mathematics, statistics, etc.
And I normally don't read postings asking about someone's OPINION regarding which tube sounds best, which cable, blah, blah, blah. And I'm not going to go back and reread any posts, especially since English is my first language. I learned long ago that arguing on the internet as a way to enlighten, edify or preach is a big waste of time. So why bother?
I'm going to go listen to music, get off the internet and have a Happy Sunday.
Hope you do too!
Hi Duke,
I might sneak a nap this afternoon. Sounds like a good idea.
A tron sounds pretty good.
I also don’t frequent diy forums very often.
I think something we can agree on is that if a question
exists, we ask for further information. I include myself.
Cheers and all the best.
pos
I confirm that kt88 are better in the same kt88 amplifier,
A beefier PS can take kt120 and make it better than kt88, but otherwise no.
The only 'sound' kt120 will be better at is in the deep bass (under 60hz) it will have a cleaner less distortion background, it will sound less tubby.
for the same kt88 HT, don't use a kt120.
A beefier PS can take kt120 and make it better than kt88, but otherwise no.
The only 'sound' kt120 will be better at is in the deep bass (under 60hz) it will have a cleaner less distortion background, it will sound less tubby.
for the same kt88 HT, don't use a kt120.
When a claim of "less distorsion" is made i would like to see figures and testing environment. Without that the
claim is virtually useless.
claim is virtually useless.
If you are referring to my post?
I just test it I said the voltages, the noise thd for bass is 20 dbv under for kt120, then it raise to more than 5db thd and a lot more noise
Imd is also 2-3 db higher and raise as the power goes up
I tested for myself in the hope it would work, the xpr002 of edcor is at the bare minimum for heaters requirements,
I just test it I said the voltages, the noise thd for bass is 20 dbv under for kt120, then it raise to more than 5db thd and a lot more noise
Imd is also 2-3 db higher and raise as the power goes up
I tested for myself in the hope it would work, the xpr002 of edcor is at the bare minimum for heaters requirements,
Yes i refer to your post. You seem to have measured, what are the conditions for this test ? A diagram would be nice
The voltages B+= 450, current 55ma, Pentode with CF 16 ohm windings, GNF=7db, CF=around 2db feedback.
input 6sl7 cathodyne with raised and isolated grid bias directly coupled to 6sn7 cathode followers.
The driver stage is good up to 200 Watts.
Screen bias around 400V, I used the same parameters for kt120 and kt88, the power transformer was on the max of heater voltage for elements, I think kt120 would have a lot less THD with higher filament heater voltages, it has a huge impact, better higher than lower, it is very bad on the THD graphs vs the KT88.
However the bass has low noise and the KT120 has more raveling possibility, it can play delicate nuances better at low power than kt88 and sounds cleaner in bass. So it is a way better tube, just completely missed used under 500V with bias under 60mA, it sings under 50 Watts in mono blocks at 600V, 75mA and plenty of heater juice.
To give you an idea.
Exact same power supply and circuit and output transformer, checked no ringing, 100% stable (all this), with EL34 I had around 0.2% Thd in general at 8 watts.
With kt88 in UL around 0.12%
With kt88 in Pentode CF, 0.09%
With kt120 0.11%
The Pentode would be able to perform way better with a regulated screen supply, which crumbles at higher power over 20 watts.
With the Pentode CF it has a way better THD pattern, especially in high frequency and bass and IMD.
The kt120 THD is not good, and Kt77 horrible, EL34 is a way better tube.
All this I could easily hear, and especially Ultralinear cannot compete with Pentode.
The CF had some problems but it gives you a lower output impedance.
Exact same power supply and circuit and output transformer, checked no ringing, 100% stable (all this), with EL34 I had around 0.2% Thd in general at 8 watts.
With kt88 in UL around 0.12%
With kt88 in Pentode CF, 0.09%
With kt120 0.11%
The Pentode would be able to perform way better with a regulated screen supply, which crumbles at higher power over 20 watts.
With the Pentode CF it has a way better THD pattern, especially in high frequency and bass and IMD.
The kt120 THD is not good, and Kt77 horrible, EL34 is a way better tube.
All this I could easily hear, and especially Ultralinear cannot compete with Pentode.
The CF had some problems but it gives you a lower output impedance.