hello, i am new to building amps, and i don't want to get too involved in designing, but i do have 2 years of college EE behind me so i have an understanding.
i'm looking for a kit that requires basic assembly and will be able to power a small subwoofer, such as a tangband 6.5" or 8"; 50-100 watts @4 ohms. it will need to be able to operate on a car voltage 11-15V. i need something reliable and that i could quasi mass produce, eventually i would build about 30 or more. i would like to be able to build something for under $50 an amp, preferably less if it meets the criteria.
what's out there that will work?
rob
i'm looking for a kit that requires basic assembly and will be able to power a small subwoofer, such as a tangband 6.5" or 8"; 50-100 watts @4 ohms. it will need to be able to operate on a car voltage 11-15V. i need something reliable and that i could quasi mass produce, eventually i would build about 30 or more. i would like to be able to build something for under $50 an amp, preferably less if it meets the criteria.
what's out there that will work?
rob
Allow me.
Maybe it's just me here, but you've been a member longer than me, so you've been around a little while, and made your first post "I don't want to do any actual work, research, or learn anything because I already know more than I want, so give me a cheap circuit that works that I may mass produce and profit from".
That's what I got from your post at least.
How about:
"I've been working on this since college, I'd like to mass produce it, do you think it can work? Do you know any way I can decrease the cost ...."
"I'm having a problem with my design, I'd like to learn more in order to improve my skills and my product"
"My goal is produce a commercial product, which I've been working very hard on, these are my ideas for it, these are the difficulties I've had, can you help me with any ideas, point me in a direction to follow?"
Seems to me you're asking for something for nothing and wanting to profit off it, and off us, being too lazy yourself to do any research of even the simplest kind, and wanting us to do it for you.
It's not that I didn't know where to begin, I didn't know where to stop.
I hope you get the idea now, this is not building you're interested in, it's robbing, I have a good play for your nickname right now and I simply must resist the temptation.
Good luck.
Regards,
Chris
Maybe it's just me here, but you've been a member longer than me, so you've been around a little while, and made your first post "I don't want to do any actual work, research, or learn anything because I already know more than I want, so give me a cheap circuit that works that I may mass produce and profit from".
That's what I got from your post at least.
How about:
"I've been working on this since college, I'd like to mass produce it, do you think it can work? Do you know any way I can decrease the cost ...."
"I'm having a problem with my design, I'd like to learn more in order to improve my skills and my product"
"My goal is produce a commercial product, which I've been working very hard on, these are my ideas for it, these are the difficulties I've had, can you help me with any ideas, point me in a direction to follow?"
Seems to me you're asking for something for nothing and wanting to profit off it, and off us, being too lazy yourself to do any research of even the simplest kind, and wanting us to do it for you.
It's not that I didn't know where to begin, I didn't know where to stop.
I hope you get the idea now, this is not building you're interested in, it's robbing, I have a good play for your nickname right now and I simply must resist the temptation.
Good luck.
Regards,
Chris
now thats more like it! thanks.
ok, let me clarify my intentions.
i am looking to produce a small powered subwoofer for a car application. i have a small desire to get into the design aspect of amplifiers, but i did EE (well technically audio engineering) for two years and the design aspect does not interest me enough to get involved in designing. i could probably buy an already made amplifier that would work my application, but i think i can save money, learn more about my product, and have a better end product by building from a kit. i've searched and researched, but i do not know what would work best for my application.
i've been looking at this 70 watt mono kit
http://www.philmore-datak.com/page_200.htm
gainclones seem a bit expensive for what i want, but they may work.
what else could i be looking into?
i apologize if it seems like i am too lazy to learn. i give car audio advice to newbies all the time and it doesn't bother me that they don't know as much as i do. i know how long it has taken me to get the understanding i have of car audio, and i am not about to spend all that time and effort into learning about designing amplifiers, especially when i can ask you guys who are leaps and bounds ahead of me in know-how. i'll tell you anything you want to know about car audio or fiberglassing techniques or anything else i know about, just help me out in what you know about.
thanks for any advice,
rob
ok, let me clarify my intentions.
i am looking to produce a small powered subwoofer for a car application. i have a small desire to get into the design aspect of amplifiers, but i did EE (well technically audio engineering) for two years and the design aspect does not interest me enough to get involved in designing. i could probably buy an already made amplifier that would work my application, but i think i can save money, learn more about my product, and have a better end product by building from a kit. i've searched and researched, but i do not know what would work best for my application.
i've been looking at this 70 watt mono kit
http://www.philmore-datak.com/page_200.htm
gainclones seem a bit expensive for what i want, but they may work.
what else could i be looking into?
i apologize if it seems like i am too lazy to learn. i give car audio advice to newbies all the time and it doesn't bother me that they don't know as much as i do. i know how long it has taken me to get the understanding i have of car audio, and i am not about to spend all that time and effort into learning about designing amplifiers, especially when i can ask you guys who are leaps and bounds ahead of me in know-how. i'll tell you anything you want to know about car audio or fiberglassing techniques or anything else i know about, just help me out in what you know about.
thanks for any advice,
rob
For that low power and strictly sub woofer use, in kit form, not much comes to mind. You'd probably want 12 volts but bridged, sonic impacts aren't really a kit, and I don't think can be bridged.
There's a number of modules which are excellent, some more so than others, most are for full range, but you'd need a convertor to step up the juice, and won't explode or shut down during your SPL testing.
There's no easy answers, is there?
There's a number of modules which are excellent, some more so than others, most are for full range, but you'd need a convertor to step up the juice, and won't explode or shut down during your SPL testing.
There's no easy answers, is there?
If your really not interested in building your own, or don't have the resources then i strongly reccomend you simply buy to re-sale a unit already made for this purpose as you won't be able to buy a normal amp and sell it on with a mod to make it work on 12V. The main problem here is the 12V bit, you will need to step up the voltage and that will cost you money, unless you research and build your own, even then you will be lucky to achive it for $50. Most of us are in here because we want technical excellence and the amount of effort or time it takes to achive isn't an issue, if your in here to make money by re-sale then you are on a looser. You really should look at other manufactors and buy in ready made units in your case.
Good luck on your endevour...
Mad.P
Good luck on your endevour...
Mad.P
thanks for the advice.
ok, so i have been researching building amps since my first post. i have changed my mind and i am now very interested in building amplifiers both for sale in my products and for my self. it seems that gainclones are the easiest to build with the biggest benefits, so i am researching them now.
from my understanding, the amplifier circuit will remain the same, but the psu would be changed from ac-dc to dc-dc and the voltage would have to be stepped up, correct?
would the input dc voltage need to be regulated or would a fluctuating unregulated voltage be ok?
could i boost the voltage by using a simple step up dc-dc converter? why would it be expensive to do so?
for my needs of an inexpensive 50-100 watts for strictly subwoofer use, should i be looking into chip amps, transistor amps, or class d amps?
thanks,
rob
ok, so i have been researching building amps since my first post. i have changed my mind and i am now very interested in building amplifiers both for sale in my products and for my self. it seems that gainclones are the easiest to build with the biggest benefits, so i am researching them now.
from my understanding, the amplifier circuit will remain the same, but the psu would be changed from ac-dc to dc-dc and the voltage would have to be stepped up, correct?
would the input dc voltage need to be regulated or would a fluctuating unregulated voltage be ok?
could i boost the voltage by using a simple step up dc-dc converter? why would it be expensive to do so?
for my needs of an inexpensive 50-100 watts for strictly subwoofer use, should i be looking into chip amps, transistor amps, or class d amps?
thanks,
rob
I believe a stiffening cap is the most regulation the input voltage gets.
It's expensive because R&D isn't free. It's probably much harder to make a class D amp, so that'll be for you to decide, do you want 1000W out of it eventually? Then your options narrow.
Regards,
Chris
It's expensive because R&D isn't free. It's probably much harder to make a class D amp, so that'll be for you to decide, do you want 1000W out of it eventually? Then your options narrow.
Regards,
Chris
What you want
What you want is an ICE Power 95ASA4. 95W x 4 with any pair of channels bridgeable. Under $50.00 including the 12V inverter and small enough to fit into an automotive head unit. Unfortunately this will not be available for a year yet and only if you buy 1000 pieces.
It was neat though holding the prototype in my hands at the CES in Las Vegas, in the ICE Power suite in the Hilton last week.
I know I'm being cruel. I'm an OEM ICE Power customer and I get to see all this neat stuff before everyone else. Stuff that is unobtainable on the DIY market. We did discuss the desire of the DIY market in our meeting. However, the conclusion was that because the ICE Power products do have a learning curve to get runing correctly and that they do require some technical hand holding, which is expensive, it is not practical to put them on the DIY market.
In my case, we fried about 10 modules before we learned how to deploy them correctly and with no further field failures. That was in 2001. Since then we have been able to deploy new ones like the 200ASC with no failures.
However, if there were a distributor willing to buy modules in 1000 quantity and resell them, doing the user support needed to deploy them correctly, ICE Power is willing to consider talking about getting them to the DIY market.
Consider this a warning though that in a couple years, car amps will be available that are 1/4 the size of current ones, with a lot more power.
What you want is an ICE Power 95ASA4. 95W x 4 with any pair of channels bridgeable. Under $50.00 including the 12V inverter and small enough to fit into an automotive head unit. Unfortunately this will not be available for a year yet and only if you buy 1000 pieces.
It was neat though holding the prototype in my hands at the CES in Las Vegas, in the ICE Power suite in the Hilton last week.
I know I'm being cruel. I'm an OEM ICE Power customer and I get to see all this neat stuff before everyone else. Stuff that is unobtainable on the DIY market. We did discuss the desire of the DIY market in our meeting. However, the conclusion was that because the ICE Power products do have a learning curve to get runing correctly and that they do require some technical hand holding, which is expensive, it is not practical to put them on the DIY market.
In my case, we fried about 10 modules before we learned how to deploy them correctly and with no further field failures. That was in 2001. Since then we have been able to deploy new ones like the 200ASC with no failures.
However, if there were a distributor willing to buy modules in 1000 quantity and resell them, doing the user support needed to deploy them correctly, ICE Power is willing to consider talking about getting them to the DIY market.
Consider this a warning though that in a couple years, car amps will be available that are 1/4 the size of current ones, with a lot more power.
Re: What you want
that seems like a huge step forward and is quite honestly unbelievable. from everything i know about amplifiers, which is admittedly less than most everyone here, that seems like it is not true.
but if it were though, i don't know if i'll ever have the $50,000 to buy amplifiers. i am now looking into resale units, or maybe i could outsource the building to someone from this forum who knows what he is doing.
rob
dmfraser said:
that seems like a huge step forward and is quite honestly unbelievable. from everything i know about amplifiers, which is admittedly less than most everyone here, that seems like it is not true.
but if it were though, i don't know if i'll ever have the $50,000 to buy amplifiers. i am now looking into resale units, or maybe i could outsource the building to someone from this forum who knows what he is doing.
rob
Re: What you want
Will the DC-DC power supplies be 1/4 the size with a lot more power too? That would seem to be the sticking point.
(Oh boy, now we'll have even louder car stereos 🙄 )
dmfraser said:
Will the DC-DC power supplies be 1/4 the size with a lot more power too? That would seem to be the sticking point.
(Oh boy, now we'll have even louder car stereos 🙄 )
Re: Re: What you want
Maybe only need 6 extra batteries instead of 12, and just three alternators?
panomaniac said:
Maybe only need 6 extra batteries instead of 12, and just three alternators?
Hello,
I work in the automotive electronics industry and happen to know that the smaller PSU with larger output is probebly exactly what is going to happen. You may even find DC step up will not be nessesary in future as i belive that 48V DC is going to be the new standard for car electrical systems in the near future. This is due to the current demand of all the accessorys in the car increasing, the industry wants more power available without the huge cost of thick wiring and expensive super caps all over. This is happening soon too as the first stop is 24V then up to 48V. I am already designing our new stuff so it works correctly with a feed of 24V neg earth. Just thought i'd pass on this thought, you have prob heard anyway.
regards
Mad.P
I work in the automotive electronics industry and happen to know that the smaller PSU with larger output is probebly exactly what is going to happen. You may even find DC step up will not be nessesary in future as i belive that 48V DC is going to be the new standard for car electrical systems in the near future. This is due to the current demand of all the accessorys in the car increasing, the industry wants more power available without the huge cost of thick wiring and expensive super caps all over. This is happening soon too as the first stop is 24V then up to 48V. I am already designing our new stuff so it works correctly with a feed of 24V neg earth. Just thought i'd pass on this thought, you have prob heard anyway.
regards
Mad.P
hmm i think you should try something that has multi channels and a/b class 🙂
because i have the same ideas as yours but the ideas buried somewhere because the cost wasn't cheap...
about the bigger amps in smaller case, that's true.
clif designs will release their R Series Monoblocks this year.
The R Series will have almost 4kW with the size smaller than their
1000 watt monoblocks (LX 1.1). I dunno the tricks
but i suppose their using the advancement of zapco's stacking technique and combined with maybe some 4 layered PCB's and advance controlled PWM.
maybe you can consult a member here named lumanauw. he makes many kind of customized amplifier for car audio in my country. maybe he could give you any advice🙂
because i have the same ideas as yours but the ideas buried somewhere because the cost wasn't cheap...
about the bigger amps in smaller case, that's true.
clif designs will release their R Series Monoblocks this year.
The R Series will have almost 4kW with the size smaller than their
1000 watt monoblocks (LX 1.1). I dunno the tricks
but i suppose their using the advancement of zapco's stacking technique and combined with maybe some 4 layered PCB's and advance controlled PWM.
maybe you can consult a member here named lumanauw. he makes many kind of customized amplifier for car audio in my country. maybe he could give you any advice🙂
- Status
- Not open for further replies.