New Module by Lars Clausen

[classd4sure]

I used to use the 1820M, it was OK but the overall impression was "hmm". I had been using a Lynx 2B and RME Fireface 800 with an Apogee DA16x just prior to that though.

Would almost certainly benefit from tweaks - the more the better. Actually its probably its easier/cheaper to sell and buy into something decent.

It's decent to begin with, and I doubt anything else wouldnt' suffer from the same main problems with it, which is grounding.

It will be very easy and cheap to mod this thing.

Show me anything else you'd consider as being decent with 8 balanced outputs for anywhere near the same price, I'd love to see it!

 

[Matsen]

So... back to the new Modules!! 😀

I've consider to buy on of the introduction offer. The BIG question is which?

The dualmono offer is really neat, but I'm not sure of what transformer that would suite in a mono construction. The http://www.elfa.se/elfa-bin/dyndok.pl?lang=se&dok=2021854.htm]800VA transformer from Elfa (Sweden)[/URL] was proposed earlier in a 2 channel contruction with the 4-wire power supply.

I guess that the 800VA transformer would work in a mono construction as well but it seems as an overkill...

Any suggestions?

And I havent really understood why I should go for 6-wire or 4-Wire power supply, can anyone help a newbie... 😕

 

[tinitus]

500VA should be sufficient, and you might do without softstart

4wire/6wire - Lars answers that in post 300 side 30

The exstra 15volt is aux suppply - dont know exactly how its done on "NCD"

Being a newbie you might be better of with 4wire standard

Maybe Classd4sure can answer that if he makes a test on both options? - sorry, that might not be possible

 

[IVX]

Nope it's "better" still, 1820M. At this point it remains stock, I'd like to clean up the power going to it though.

What is your setup for useful measurements with it? I'm thinking you'd need two sets of differential buffers with adjustable gain that would need to have distortion and noise at least an order of magnitude below that expected of the amp I'd want to measure.

I'd also need my own little AES type filter as well would I not?

Wouldn't anything less make the measurements utterly useless?

Actually 1212m is an internal version of 1820m with equal specs. If you'll not use input notch filter and other tricks (1212/1820 DAC a little bit worse vs ADC, so you can use passive lowpass filter 2khz for harmonics filtering after DAC) you'll can see THD (loopback) .0003%, also you can make two (differential, for balance line input) 20-25khz AES22_like passive filter (see IRDamp.pdf), and of course two 10kohm potentiometers for gain fiting (Hint: try -6db of the full scale). Soft freeware RMAA.

 

[ShinOBIWAN]

It's decent to begin with, and I doubt anything else wouldnt' suffer from the same main problems with it, which is grounding.

It will be very easy and cheap to mod this thing.

Show me anything else you'd consider as being decent with 8 balanced outputs for anywhere near the same price, I'd love to see it!

🙂

Check the Lynx 2B, very sorted regarding ground plane. Its knocking on a bit now but still sounds better than virtually any other soundcard despite the older converters. The SNR is very close to the DAC and ADC specs - good grounding.

And yes, the EMU is decent for the price.

 

[Anzgar]

Is it totally out to use a preamplifier nowdays? My AD825/BUF634 based preamp has been working ok so far.But I do have two sound cards in my computer..😎

 

[noah katz]

Chris,

[last post on this, and this time I mean it]

"You mean this amp "challenge"

http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/show...goto=nextoldest"

I didn't realize there were so many caveats, I see your point.

"Noah, I'm not even sure what your argument is anymore, or why you've chosen to turn this into a debate about hearing ability."

The answers are clear from what I've already said, so I'll just leave it at that.

Except for one more thing - I'm surprised that not a single person here seems to have had the curiosity to see if they could pass a blind test, given the well-known controversy on the topic.

 

[lucpes]

Nope it's "better" still, 1820M. At this point it remains stock, I'd like to clean up the power going to it though.

Come on, you have 4 (four) coupling caps in the signal path between the DAC Vouts to opamp buffers on each pair of channels and low grade opamps...

 

[serengetiplains]

Except for one more thing - I'm surprised that not a single person here seems to have had the curiosity to see if they could pass a blind test, given the well-known controversy on the topic.

Noah, I don't doubt, even smidgenly doubt, that I'd pass a blind test, audible differences are so obvious to me. I recently tested input coupling caps --- teflon vs paper-in-fluorinert. The flourinerts handily bested the teflons. This was a test:

1. that concerned the audibility of *one* coupling capacitor where

2. the capacitors tested were closely comparable and

3. were the best, presumably, on the planet.

I have better things to do with my time than demonstrate that ears, like eyes, like taste buds, like physical sense nerves, can, with education, differentiate at finer levels of differentiation. I mean, ask a musician if he/she can differentiate the subtle sonic differences between, say, violins of highest quality. If you cannot hear sonic differences, it's because you haven't properly educated yourself through relevant necessary training. That education takes time, effort, dedication --- sorry, no shortcuts.

 

[Matsen]

500VA should be sufficient, and you might do without softstart

4wire/6wire - Lars answers that in post 300 side 30

The exstra 15volt is aux suppply - dont know exactly how its done on "NCD"

Being a newbie you might be better of with 4wire standard

Maybe Classd4sure can answer that if he makes a test on both options? - sorry, that might not be possible

I've seen Lars post about the difference between 4 and 6 wire:

Post #300
Yes:

4 wire is for use with a 42 - 0 - 42 - 0 transformer (also called 2 x 42 V secondary) - the most standard type.

6 wire is for use with a 42 - 0 - 42 - 0 + 15 - 0 transformer (also called 2 x 42 + 15V) More specialized type.

But that answer doesent say why I should use the one or another.
What is the purpose of the 2 extra wires, will the sound of the amplifier change?

 

[classd4sure]

The Lynx 2b was a consideration until you see that it's twice the price!

Lucpes, did I ever say I would be leaving it stock? My opinion is that the power source it currently has is the worst bottleneck, long before any coupling caps or op amp that you don't happen to like. I also said I would be modifying it.

Ivan, you're right it is the same PCI card, the external audiodock might offer an advantage or two.. I wouldn't really say it's better, certainly not in stock format.

Thank you for the information given, I will look into it.

About the 4 wire Vs 6 wire supply:

The four wire version seems to have your typical regulator on board to devise the gate driver supply. This is what I've been given to try.

On the board you can see room for additional parts which may make up the seperate auxiliary gate driver supply regulator.

The most important difference between them will be your auxiliary winding/seperate transformer for the gate driver supply.

An additional transformer or aux winding will cost more money.

What you'll gain is that the output regulation of the main supply will not be affecting the gate driver supply, which otherwise could lead to extremely minute changes gate drive supply voltage and so even more minute changes in Ron of the output devices. I personally doubt if it would at all be audible... but I can't say I've ever actually tested it to know. On a purists level it would of course be best to have the auxiliary supply power it for stiffer gate driver supply, if it really makes a difference I can't personally say.

It is very likely to be more useful to have an aux supply used for the input stage, for which I see no provision for. Lars seems to have some funky regulation going on on board, so he likely doesn't feel the need for it?

**Disclaimer:
You've just read a pre-coffee post, this has known to be dangerous... I'm uncertain if it makes any sense at all.

 

[ScottG]

Except for one more thing - I'm surprised that not a single person here seems to have had the curiosity to see if they could pass a blind test, given the well-known controversy on the topic.

I've done this blind (..but not double blind) before with various similar components, but not with parts.

I found out afterward that the more subtle the difference, the less accuracy I had. Not to surpising.

 

[Matsen]

Thanks Chris.... That was a good explanation of the 2 extra wires!

Then I will go for the 6 wire dual mono solution... Any suggestions of transformers? Prefereble in Sweden.... 😀

 

[tinitus]

Blind test - I suppose that will mean not knowing when the change is made - as said, the subtle and most important differences will pass unnoticed
But that dont mean you cant hear them when you know when the change is made

BTW, I recently saw John Cleese perform a test with wine
A group of persons should drink some wine with out knowing if it was red or white wine
Asked upon if they had drank red or white they totally disagreed, some thougt red others white
All of them drank exactly the same wine

 

[Anzgar]

I've seen Lars post about the difference between 4 and 6 wire:


But that answer doesent say why I should use the one or another.
What is the purpose of the 2 extra wires, will the sound of the amplifier change?

The sound has been verified several times as being the same with or without the extra 2 wires.The amp will consume 10 watts lower power at idle though.

😀

 

[classd4sure]

That extra power dissipated in the 4 wire unit is actually on the power supply itself. You could conceivably build your own supply for it as well, but you'd have to provide it with a gate driver supply.

 

[KLe]

Except for one more thing - I'm surprised that not a single person here seems to have had the curiosity to see if they could pass a blind test, given the well-known controversy on the topic.

Hi noah katz
I have done this before using a blind fold, but the result was the same whether I did the test with or without the Blind fold. 😎

There is a problem using a blind fold in that after a while, for me, I found it to be claustrophobic and as such it actually disrupted my pleasure/enjoyment in listening to the music.

So, as such, I haven’t considered it a necessary approach, since that time. 🙂
rgds

 

[Matsen]

If I would go for one extra transformer for the 15V how big must that one be, how much current must it be able to deliver?

It could be rather small right?

The only 6 wire transformer that I have been noticed of and will fit as it is, is the 220VA (2x42 + 15V) pancake transformer from LC Audio. That one would work but I would like to have at least 300VA. In other hand with 220VA I wouldnt have to bother with an soft start...

Hypex has one transformer 2x42+12 500VA (TR501) but that fails on the 12V.

 

[Lars Clausen]

Matsen: Strictly you only need around 100mA per channel on the 15 V AC line. However i recommend 1A on the transformer, so it's 15VA. (For 2 channels)

 

[Matsen]

Thanx Lars... 😀