New Midrange

Here it is, certainly looks better that way, When i turned it on i was just blown away by the new sound. The mids were pure, unadulterated, and the integration with the tweeter was seamless. NEVER buy the GR Research drivers, after listening to the beautiful sound of this midrange which costs only $60 more(money very well spent) i realized just how much of a crappy driver the Gr M130 is. Better pic is here:http://public.fotki.com/playazinc1/speakers/
 

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Just to offer an alternative view, I'd choose the GR M130 over any Focal midwoofer. I've tested a few Focal drivers and I feel they just don't perform as well as they should, particularly considering their cost. Their motors are not particularly well designed. (I've had one ripped apart) Distortion is higher than a few cheap Asian drivers of 1/4 the price.

But to tell the truth of my feelings, there's a lot of drivers I'd chose over either of those. Neither one represents the best in it's field or price range though the M130 is not bad for a $25 woofer.

John
 
Zaph said:
Just to offer an alternative view, I'd choose the GR M130 over any Focal midwoofer. I've tested a few Focal drivers and I feel they just don't perform as well as they should, particularly considering their cost. Their motors are not particularly well designed. (I've had one ripped apart) Distortion is higher than a few cheap Asian drivers of 1/4 the price.

But to tell the truth of my feelings, there's a lot of drivers I'd chose over either of those. Neither one represents the best in it's field or price range though the M130 is not bad for a $25 woofer.

John

Come to my house & hear them, ill switch them back and forth for you!
 
BTW: You dont audition individual drivers, you audition loudspeakers, What you are looking for is integration, you cant just take 100 ramdom people and play different drivers on their own, crossoverless, to them and expect them to know what they are talking about in terms of sound quality as they will naturally pick the one fattest in the bass & coming close to the sound of a full range speaker. What you are looking for is how a loudspeaker performs as a whole, the quality of sound, mainly the way the seperate drivers integrate and come together to reproduce a full range sound, then you can start asking them about how the midrange or bass or highs sound. I know that the focal unit isnt an electrostatic panel or scan-speak 18w/8545 but other than those two it is the best thing i have heard, reproducing its given range in a whole speaker set-up.
 
playazinc said:
BTW: You dont audition individual drivers, you audition loudspeakers, What you are looking for is integration, you cant just take 100 ramdom people and play different drivers on their own, crossoverless, to them and expect them to know what they are talking about in terms of sound quality as they will naturally pick the one fattest in the bass & coming close to the sound of a full range speaker. What you are looking for is how a loudspeaker performs as a whole, the quality of sound, mainly the way the seperate drivers integrate and come together to reproduce a full range sound, then you can start asking them about how the midrange or bass or highs sound. I know that the focal unit isnt an electrostatic panel or scan-speak 18w/8545 but other than those two it is the best thing i have heard, reproducing its given range in a whole speaker set-up.

Initially, I test drivers by themselves, to take the rest of the system out of the equation. I typically start with the FR, then the waterfall, then the HD, then the IMD and finally the T/S numbers. (and a couple more tests if I have time, usually not) Then after that, I listen to them in a system. It's usually pretty easy to corelate the type of distortion with the speaker's personality after you listen to it for a while.

A quick disclaimer: I did not test the phase plug version that it looks like you have, so I'm not qualified to pass judgement on that driver. I have tested the 6.5" non-phase plug W cone version. I've also tested the 6.5" and 5" Kevlar cones. They all share rather high energy storage and harmonic distortion.
 
I use the same driver (6W4254 right?) and love it, too. Maybe for some it's a euphonic distortion. Could be why there is no middle ground on Focal tweeters - love 'em or hate 'em.

Zaphs tests got me thinking I'll have to try the excel line sometime, although some commercial speakers using it didn't thrill me.

BTW, Zaph, the phase plug is attached to the cone and moves with it, unlike the traditional phase plug. Also, this driver has something I have not seen before - four weights around the perimeter of the cone. I guess they are there to alter the breakup modes and lower the fs. Do you think that this would impact energy storage?
 
playazinc said:


Is that why it is used in some of the most highly regarded speakrs in the world????

Loudspeaker no matter who makes them are all subjective.
Highly regarded is a state of mind :devilr:

If you are building loudspeakers as a business you want to use
drivers that people stereptype being good to help boost sales.

For DIY, the idea is to build a loudspeaker that you like.
In your example you didn't like the GR Research speaker
and love the Focal. That is fine because the design is for you
and that is what you like. But you came here to flame that
company and product which is not sweet as others like the GR products.

It's better to say "I auditioned both GR and Focal and I liked the
Focal better". That is cool.

Basically that is what I said. We auditioned drivers that we liked
and oddly enough that Focal always scored last. I'm not trying to
flame the Focal product, I'm also like you and seek the best sounding driver for my application and the Focal product is not
magic, it may not work for every design and that I my point.
 
playazinc said:
BTW: You dont audition individual drivers, you audition loudspeakers, What you are looking for is integration, you cant just take 100 ramdom people and play different drivers on their own, crossoverless, to them and expect them to know what they are talking about in terms of sound quality as they will naturally pick the one fattest in the bass & coming close to the sound of a full range speaker. What you are looking for is how a loudspeaker performs as a whole, the quality of sound, mainly the way the seperate drivers integrate and come together to reproduce a full range sound, then you can start asking them about how the midrange or bass or highs sound. I know that the focal unit isnt an electrostatic panel or scan-speak 18w/8545 but other than those two it is the best thing i have heard, reproducing its given range in a whole speaker set-up.

You have your methods, I have mine :cool:

My method has served me well :devilr:
 
BobEllis said:
I use the same driver (6W4254 right?) and love it, too. Maybe for some it's a euphonic distortion. Could be why there is no middle ground on Focal tweeters - love 'em or hate 'em.

Zaphs tests got me thinking I'll have to try the excel line sometime, although some commercial speakers using it didn't thrill me.

BTW, Zaph, the phase plug is attached to the cone and moves with it, unlike the traditional phase plug. Also, this driver has something I have not seen before - four weights around the perimeter of the cone. I guess they are there to alter the breakup modes and lower the fs. Do you think that this would impact energy storage?

When I made my comment, this is the little monster we didn't like.
http://www.diyparadiso.com/datasheets/speaker/focal/Audiom_06WM.jpg

Probably not the same as the one mentioned in the thread, harr harr harr.
 
looking at the FR, it is not surprising you didn't like it - rising response from 500 Hz to the first breakup mode at a little over 1,000. This is a midrange? talk about difficult to work with.

The data sheet I have on the 6W4254 is too big to post, but it is fairly flat to 3 KHz. The 6W4311 (no phase plug) looks flatter longer, but won't go as low. I'm still planning to try other drivers, though.
 
thylantyr said:


When I made my comment, this is the little monster we didn't like.
http://www.diyparadiso.com/datasheets/speaker/focal/Audiom_06WM.jpg

That driver has a cupped spider. Those are generally bad news because they cause distortion from non-linear up and down strokes. The better drivers have flat spiders. And the better drivers with flat spiders are free-air supported, such as all the newer Seas, Peerless, Scans and the Vifa XT line. And even better than that is a spider with varying rib size, though the usage of that is limited due to someone holding a patent.

But in general, a cupped spider immediately says this is not a high end driver. The cup was selected to fit a voice coil length that the motor and frame was not designed for.

playazinc, I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm badmouthing your project. I try to be honest and truthful at all times but inevitably I say something someone doesn't want or like to hear. I recall a discussion on this forum a while back when someone asked an opinion on the ar.com kit speakers and I replied that the kit had issues. 3 people immediately got offended by that. It's like I was saying their newborn babies are ugly. ;)