Hello!
This is my one of my first posts on this forum, so please be gentle if I ask some noob questions in the wrong section of this forum.
I came across this website as currently I'm at the planning stage of building the audio system that will provide the sound to 4-6 ceiling speakers located in the 3 bathrooms and a kitchen, using one zone input only. On top of that I'd like to be able to control the music from the mobile phone, and because of the number of speakers that I want to install and the fact that I already have a Sonos Play 5 speaker, a Sonos Connect seems to be the obvious choice for my needs.
So here is a very simplistic diagram of what I would like to achieve:
STORAGE
I'm a big fan of tidy installations and good cable management solutions, so the plan is to get as much as I can of rack mountable equipment and install all of it in the following rack cabinet which will be located in the storage cupboard:
18u 390mm deep excel wall mounted cabinet
AMPLIFIER & SPEAKERS
From the reading that I've done so far I understand that in order to be able to drive the power to 4-6 speakers I will need an amplifier that can deliver the power into 2 Ohms - is this statement correct?
Below I attached the links to the speakers I am planning to buy (I will be looking for a waterproof option of the same type), and the amplifier that would satisfy the above criteria:
Ceiling speakers 6.5" 2-way 120W
Behringer amplifier
SPEAKER SELECTOR SWITCH WITH VOLUME CONTROL
As I'd like to split the sound to multiple rooms I am led to believe that this is the type of the component I need:
5-way Speaker Selector Switch
If possible I'd like to allow for the speaker expansion in the future, but I am unsure if the mixer/splitter below will be the right choice for me:
8-channel mixer/splitter
I've read some reviews and the users stated that if you don't use all of the outputs of the selector switch, then the sound from the speakers will not play at the right volume/quality. Can I have your expertise please?
CABLES & CONNECTORS
As I've never used the amp showed above I am a bit confused about the input & output type of connectors. I might be wrong on this one (and I probably am...), but I understand that Sonos Connect would link to this amp using RCA to TRS type of connection. This is where I get stuck. I've read that it's not recommended to connect low signal banana plugs to the high power type of connector on the amp.
Amp connectors
On top of that I am also trying to decide what wire gauge of the cable should I use to connect the speakers to the selector switch. Please advise.
Does this mean that the above amplifier is not the right choice for this setup? If not, can you recommend a rack mountable amplifier that would do the right job?
Your help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks very much in advance,
gierachjr
This is my one of my first posts on this forum, so please be gentle if I ask some noob questions in the wrong section of this forum.
I came across this website as currently I'm at the planning stage of building the audio system that will provide the sound to 4-6 ceiling speakers located in the 3 bathrooms and a kitchen, using one zone input only. On top of that I'd like to be able to control the music from the mobile phone, and because of the number of speakers that I want to install and the fact that I already have a Sonos Play 5 speaker, a Sonos Connect seems to be the obvious choice for my needs.
So here is a very simplistic diagram of what I would like to achieve:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
STORAGE
I'm a big fan of tidy installations and good cable management solutions, so the plan is to get as much as I can of rack mountable equipment and install all of it in the following rack cabinet which will be located in the storage cupboard:
18u 390mm deep excel wall mounted cabinet
AMPLIFIER & SPEAKERS
From the reading that I've done so far I understand that in order to be able to drive the power to 4-6 speakers I will need an amplifier that can deliver the power into 2 Ohms - is this statement correct?
Below I attached the links to the speakers I am planning to buy (I will be looking for a waterproof option of the same type), and the amplifier that would satisfy the above criteria:
Ceiling speakers 6.5" 2-way 120W
Behringer amplifier
SPEAKER SELECTOR SWITCH WITH VOLUME CONTROL
As I'd like to split the sound to multiple rooms I am led to believe that this is the type of the component I need:
5-way Speaker Selector Switch
If possible I'd like to allow for the speaker expansion in the future, but I am unsure if the mixer/splitter below will be the right choice for me:
8-channel mixer/splitter
I've read some reviews and the users stated that if you don't use all of the outputs of the selector switch, then the sound from the speakers will not play at the right volume/quality. Can I have your expertise please?
CABLES & CONNECTORS
As I've never used the amp showed above I am a bit confused about the input & output type of connectors. I might be wrong on this one (and I probably am...), but I understand that Sonos Connect would link to this amp using RCA to TRS type of connection. This is where I get stuck. I've read that it's not recommended to connect low signal banana plugs to the high power type of connector on the amp.
Amp connectors
On top of that I am also trying to decide what wire gauge of the cable should I use to connect the speakers to the selector switch. Please advise.
Does this mean that the above amplifier is not the right choice for this setup? If not, can you recommend a rack mountable amplifier that would do the right job?
Your help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks very much in advance,
gierachjr
and the kitchen as well. Surely it can't be that unusual to have music from my favourite radio station, or NAS playing in the bathroom while I'm having a shave in the morning 🙂
Thanks for looking anyway.
The 5-way speaker selector would be inserted as your diagram and can control 5 pairs of speakers ( stereo ) its i/ps and o/ps are via banana plugs /binding posts .
The Behringer amp would accept TRS i/ps as you have suggested . Its o/ps are Speakon and you would need Speakon to banana leads to connect to the 5-way .
The Speakon connectors shroud the contacts allowing very little chance of an accidental short circuit where as the bananas are nearly the opposite and need to be handled with that in mind .
The Behringer 8 channel mixer/splitter would be fed straight from the Sonos connect and each speaker would need its own power amp/channel.
The Behringer amp would accept TRS i/ps as you have suggested . Its o/ps are Speakon and you would need Speakon to banana leads to connect to the 5-way .
The Speakon connectors shroud the contacts allowing very little chance of an accidental short circuit where as the bananas are nearly the opposite and need to be handled with that in mind .
The Behringer 8 channel mixer/splitter would be fed straight from the Sonos connect and each speaker would need its own power amp/channel.
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Thank you epicyclic for very useful post
It sounds like using a Neutrik Speakon to banana lead might end up in an expensive kit replacement task at some point. Would you recommend scrapping an idea of getting the iNuke Behringer amp, and getting a normal consumer amp with the coaxial or toslink connectors so I can easily link it up to Sonos Connect & speaker selector switch (banana - banana lead)?
All the best,
gierachjr
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I am suggesting the banana ends are the liability with amp to speaker connections not the Speakon .
I've done something omewhat similar in my house, 10 sets of in-ceiling speakers. At present, they're all driven by an 80watt/ch Tandberg receiver that gets signal from my living room system via line-output.
My goal is to eventually have several small amplifiers, for each pair of speakers. maybe 10 or 20 watts each. That will give me the ability to control the volume of each speaker separately.
At present, the speakers are connected in a combination of series/parallel, to give the amp a reasonable load. It's been working just fine. No mixer, no switching, just music.
My goal is to eventually have several small amplifiers, for each pair of speakers. maybe 10 or 20 watts each. That will give me the ability to control the volume of each speaker separately.
At present, the speakers are connected in a combination of series/parallel, to give the amp a reasonable load. It's been working just fine. No mixer, no switching, just music.
You might want to look at a 70.7 constant voltage system.
Constant-Voltage Audio Distribution Systems: 25, 70.7 & 100 Volts
Constant-Voltage Audio Distribution Systems: 25, 70.7 & 100 Volts
I went back and looked at your link to the speaker selector, looks like it is basically a constant voltage system in a single package with level controls, so it should work just fine.
Any amp that works into 4 or 8 ohms will work, 100 watts or so should be plenty for your application.
No need for the 8 ch mixer that I can see.
Any amp that works into 4 or 8 ohms will work, 100 watts or so should be plenty for your application.
No need for the 8 ch mixer that I can see.
Hi jplesset,
That sounds like a nice setup. What type of speakers do you use?
There might be another reason why you need several amplifiers for each pair of speakers, but have you considered using volume speaker controls like the one shown below?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Kind regards,
gierachjr
Hi Don Bunce,
Thanks, that looks like an interesting article indeed
Thanks for your advise. Now I understand that 100 watt amplifier would meet the requirements of my setup. Originally I was planning to make it future-proof as much as I can (investing in an amp that will allow for the speaker expansion in the future - i.e. up to 10 x 120W speakers), although now it looks like getting 1000 watts amp might be an overkill for the current setup. Can I get your point of view on using Behringer iNuke 1000W amp from my original post please?
Kind regards,
gierachjr
I think you'll want to be able to control the volume of each set of speakers individually. Either the ones in the smaller rooms may seem too loud, or the larger rooms may need more volume.
Hi rayma,
Absolutely. This is the device I'm planning to get:
5-way Speaker Selector Switch
I'm also considering installing speaker volume controls next to the light switch, so I can easily adjust the volume without the need of visiting the storage cupboard.
Kind regards,
gierachjr
A few thoughts
Tidy home runs of signal and output cabling to/from a central location might seem like a nice idea, but depending on the home layout, some of those runs could easily exceed 100 ft. Aside from the cost, it's not always a lot of fun to fish through finished walls and ceilings.
How many pairs would you want to be running simultaneously?
Might this be exactly the type of installation for which AirPlay or similar was devised?
I happen to run all Macs at home, and can stream music from separate libraries in a dedicated Mini, iMac, MacBook, or i-device to any of several Airplay devices ( ATV, APX), and independently control the volume on each from a remote app on iPad or phone.
While there's not yet any such thing as completely wireless -any amp or speaker still needs power / signal - such a WiFi based system requires no long distance home runs.
Tidy home runs of signal and output cabling to/from a central location might seem like a nice idea, but depending on the home layout, some of those runs could easily exceed 100 ft. Aside from the cost, it's not always a lot of fun to fish through finished walls and ceilings.
How many pairs would you want to be running simultaneously?
Might this be exactly the type of installation for which AirPlay or similar was devised?
I happen to run all Macs at home, and can stream music from separate libraries in a dedicated Mini, iMac, MacBook, or i-device to any of several Airplay devices ( ATV, APX), and independently control the volume on each from a remote app on iPad or phone.
While there's not yet any such thing as completely wireless -any amp or speaker still needs power / signal - such a WiFi based system requires no long distance home runs.
I'll second this approach. All those wires etc. are problematic at best.
If you're not a Mac person, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Hi chrisb,
The house is currently at the building stage and currently there are no walls, hence why I'd like to wire everything up and run the speaker cable inside the walls (and cat7 ethernet, but that's a different story). I'm estimating that the longest speaker cable is going to be about 20 meters long (approx. 65 feet), and to start with I'm planning to use 5 ceiling speakers altogether (one pair in the kitchen, and 3 single speakers in bathroom & toilets).
I understand the benefits of using AirPlay, but in my opinion I can achieve the same result by plugging Sonos Connect to the input on the amplifier. This will also enable me to use all libraries from my Synology NAS, or other PCs across the house, stream music from Spotify, Soundcloud, etc, and on top of that use the exiting Sonos speaker that I already have. I suppose that I could get the Sonos Connect Amp for every speaker (or a pair of speakers) that I'm planning to use in order to enable the volume control via the app on the phone, but I just cannot justify spending around £1400 to accomplish this, so I will be perfectly happy with the speaker volume controls mounted on the walls.
All the best,
gierachjr
Doing the wiring now, while the home is building is the best time to wire. That's what we did, too. Tip: Take pictures showing where the wires are, so when you come back later to install the speakers, you can find the wires...
To answer your q, most of the ceiling speakers are Dayton 6" coax. They're really quite acceptable. I didn't want "local" control over most of the speakers, so made no provision for many volume controls. Bedroom, yes. Rest of house, no.
To answer your q, most of the ceiling speakers are Dayton 6" coax. They're really quite acceptable. I didn't want "local" control over most of the speakers, so made no provision for many volume controls. Bedroom, yes. Rest of house, no.
pre wiring during construction is great - as long as you plan on never relocating anything 😀
I mentioned AirPlay (or similar) only as a suggestion of the advantages of a "WiFi" based system. Did I mention that there are outdoor / garden Airplay and now solar powered Bluetooth speakers - true "wireless" may be closer than we thought - sound quality, maybe not so much 😉
As for the Dayton 6" ceiling mounts, that was the brand I used in the restaurant install last year - sealed plastic enclosures for suspended ceiling mount - sound much better than they should, and would be great for something like the new Dolby Atmos system (until you want to move the seating ) , as well as general background
I mentioned AirPlay (or similar) only as a suggestion of the advantages of a "WiFi" based system. Did I mention that there are outdoor / garden Airplay and now solar powered Bluetooth speakers - true "wireless" may be closer than we thought - sound quality, maybe not so much 😉
As for the Dayton 6" ceiling mounts, that was the brand I used in the restaurant install last year - sealed plastic enclosures for suspended ceiling mount - sound much better than they should, and would be great for something like the new Dolby Atmos system (until you want to move the seating ) , as well as general background
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Hi Don Bunce,
Thanks, that looks like an interesting article indeed
Thanks for your advise. Now I understand that 100 watt amplifier would meet the requirements of my setup. Originally I was planning to make it future-proof as much as I can (investing in an amp that will allow for the speaker expansion in the future - i.e. up to 10 x 120W speakers), although now it looks like getting 1000 watts amp might be an overkill for the current setup. Can I get your point of view on using Behringer iNuke 1000W amp from my original post please?
Kind regards,
gierachjr
I have no experience with the iNuke amp, but it should work fine...
The only drawback I see is that that much power could toast the speakers if someone (kids, etc) would happen to turn the volume up too high.
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