First off I am new to the forum, but I am not a complete n00b when it comes to HT stuff, however, I still have a lot to learn. If you do not feel like answering a question directly but instead want to give a URL, I will gladly do more reading! I just can't find the info I am looking for. I am probably searching for the wrong stuff but when searching for subwoofer preamp,
My first question.
When using winISD pro, if I input a speakers T/S parameters it keeps giving me some error message telling me none of my parameters are correct and gives me a list of everything I need to correct. How can I get that to stop when I am putting them in exactly right. I will even use other speakers that are currently in the data base as a template to make sure I am putting them in correctly and it still doesn't work.
Question #2
What are some good preamps to use for a subwoofer. What I am wanting to do is use a Crown K2 as my amp, but want at least a 7band EQ and a crossover with a variable frequency to use as my preamp. I do not want to waste money by buying a 31band EQ when I am only going to use the 7 lowest bands.
Question #3
Where can I find box and frequency response info on an Alliance 18, Sound splinter RL-p15 D4 and the Dayton Audio Titan 15. (If I had my winISD working, I'd be fine)
My goal is to produce 115db @ 20hz anechoic. At first I wanted 120db's but after further investigation, realized it would cost too much $$$ and the enclosures would take up too much space in my room.
If you have recommendations on any other sub, or even reasons to stay away from a Crown K2, I am all ears.
Thanks for your help
My first question.
When using winISD pro, if I input a speakers T/S parameters it keeps giving me some error message telling me none of my parameters are correct and gives me a list of everything I need to correct. How can I get that to stop when I am putting them in exactly right. I will even use other speakers that are currently in the data base as a template to make sure I am putting them in correctly and it still doesn't work.
Question #2
What are some good preamps to use for a subwoofer. What I am wanting to do is use a Crown K2 as my amp, but want at least a 7band EQ and a crossover with a variable frequency to use as my preamp. I do not want to waste money by buying a 31band EQ when I am only going to use the 7 lowest bands.
Question #3
Where can I find box and frequency response info on an Alliance 18, Sound splinter RL-p15 D4 and the Dayton Audio Titan 15. (If I had my winISD working, I'd be fine)
My goal is to produce 115db @ 20hz anechoic. At first I wanted 120db's but after further investigation, realized it would cost too much $$$ and the enclosures would take up too much space in my room.
If you have recommendations on any other sub, or even reasons to stay away from a Crown K2, I am all ears.
Thanks for your help
Unfortunately, you are not inputting everything right. Most of those values are calculated from other values-Qts from Qes and Qms etc...When using winISD pro, if I input a speakers T/S parameters it keeps giving me some error message telling me none of my parameters are correct and gives me a list of everything I need to correct. How can I get that to stop when I am putting them in exactly right.
and since winisd calculates some fields even though you entered data, it compares the two and reports an error if there is so much as roundoff difference.
So what you need to do is read the help file on "entering new driver data" and it should guide you as to what to leave blank and what needs to be filled in.
I will probably have to read that whole thing and experiment with what I can omit.nunayafb said:
Unfortunately, you are not inputting everything right. Most of those values are calculated from other values-Qts from Qes and Qms etc...
and since winisd calculates some fields even though you entered data, it compares the two and reports an error if there is so much as roundoff difference.
So what you need to do is read the help file on "entering new driver data" and it should guide you as to what to leave blank and what needs to be filled in.
At 102db's I would cry myself to sleep. If you meant 112, I could live with it, but would always crave more.richie00boy said:Post up the parameters you are using and maybe somebody can see where you are going wrong.
Just to add that 115dB @ 20Hz anechoic is unlikely to happen unless you use probably about 4 drivers. If you aim for maybe 102dB you might not be dissapointed.
I was hoping to use 2 drivers to help with the inroom FR and to keep from having so many localized spots of standing waves. Even with 2 Alliance18's or 2 RL-p15 D4's 115db's @ 20hz (anechoic) isn't possible? Another good question, would those be quality drivers for music?
As for posting up the T/S parameters, I was wanting to to a lot of experimenting with different tuning frequencies, Vb ect while trying to get a good EBS. If you still want them, I can go to the websites and get them for you.
So many more questions I could ask. Thanks for the help thus far.
Well all I can say is that WinISD seems optimistic on predicted SPL levels by upto 10dB in the bass.
2 18 inch drivers in a vented box might see you hit 108dB anechoic.
Your target might be met if you have some usable room gain, but for anechoic I think you have little chance with just two drivers.
2 18 inch drivers in a vented box might see you hit 108dB anechoic.
Your target might be met if you have some usable room gain, but for anechoic I think you have little chance with just two drivers.
Looks like I may have to set my sights a little lower.richie00boy said:Well all I can say is that WinISD seems optimistic on predicted SPL levels by upto 10dB in the bass.
2 18 inch drivers in a vented box might see you hit 108dB anechoic.
Your target might be met if you have some usable room gain, but for anechoic I think you have little chance with just two drivers.
What about a preamp/eq for the Crown amp, any recommendations?
richie00boy said:Well all I can say is that WinISD seems optimistic on predicted SPL levels by upto 10dB in the bass.
The WinISD figure is for radiation into "half-space". Since most subs are not mounted flush with a wall, the "full-space" value is closer to what would actually be measured. Subtract 6dB to see what would actually be measured @ 1m.
i just read about this yesterday, check it out. It is a parametric EQ for subwoofer.
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_3/onix-r-des-subwoofer-eq-9-2006-part-1.html
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_3/onix-r-des-subwoofer-eq-9-2006-part-1.html
How many db's of gain to get from each reduction of space, half vs quarter vs eighth?richie00boy said:Half space is when the radiating plane is cut in half, with a sub this would be the achieved by the floor. Fitting close to a wall would achieve quarter space. If in a corner it would be eighth space.
WinISD is just optimistic.
That looks interesting. 5 variable bands would be awesome.TwisterZ said:i just read about this yesterday, check it out. It is a parametric EQ for subwoofer.
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_3/onix-r-des-subwoofer-eq-9-2006-part-1.html
richie00boy said:WinISD is just optimistic.
I've found the exact opposite. Peak in-room SPL seems to be higher than what WinISD predicts.
114db at 20hz in a HUGE vented enclosure is very realistic with the Alliance 18. Even in a sealed enclosure, this sub could easily manage 120db once it's placed in a room. The quarter wavelength of 20hz is around 14 feet, so you don't even have to place it into a corner for it to behave like it is.
Dan
Peak in-room SPL seems to be higher than what WinISD predicts.
I forgot to add "even after estimating room gain with a Linkwitz transform."
Dan
Thanks!richie00boy said:You are effective doubling sound intensity each time you intersect the radiating plane, so you get +6dB sound pressure level each time.
But just how musical would that be?owdi said:
I've found the exact opposite. Peak in-room SPL seems to be higher than what WinISD predicts.
114db at 20hz in a HUGE vented enclosure is very realistic with the Alliance 18. Even in a sealed enclosure, this sub could easily manage 120db once it's placed in a room. The quarter wavelength of 20hz is around 14 feet, so you don't even have to place it into a corner for it to behave like it is.
Dan
looneybomber said:
Thanks!
But just how musical would that be?
How musical? If you're concerned with having 115dB @ 20Hz, music doesn't seem to be on your list of priorities for the sub. There's next to nothing musically at 20Hz.
And a big vented enclosure can sound musical, though I prefer sealed (for a variety of reasons: low Q sealed rolloff better matches room gain, IMO, and and doesn't 'unload' below Fb)
But it wouldn't solely play from 15-25hz, it would be my main source of bass for my classical, jazz, rock and progressive house music that I typically listen to.badman said:How musical? If you're concerned with having 115dB @ 20Hz, music doesn't seem to be on your list of priorities for the sub. There's next to nothing musically at 20Hz.
And a big vented enclosure can sound musical, though I prefer sealed (for a variety of reasons: low Q sealed rolloff better matches room gain, IMO, and and doesn't 'unload' below Fb)
Valid point.richie00boy said:Not only that but one mans musical is another mans monstrosity.
After reading the "help" file on WinISD, I can get the values inputed correctly and will be able to tell what the group delay is. How can I figure out what its' transient response will be though?
wouldn't this woofer produce high spl?
http://www.visaton.de/de/chassis_zubehoer/musiker/bgs40_8.html
or this one seems quite capable, though pretty expensive, said to be "the most awesome bass in the world":
http://members.fortunecity.de/sba01/CAR-HIFI.html
and getting it to "move":
http://41hz.com/
That is if you are that diy, look at amp7 or amp 8!
should be possible to make ears bleed....
http://www.visaton.de/de/chassis_zubehoer/musiker/bgs40_8.html
or this one seems quite capable, though pretty expensive, said to be "the most awesome bass in the world":
http://members.fortunecity.de/sba01/CAR-HIFI.html
and getting it to "move":
http://41hz.com/
That is if you are that diy, look at amp7 or amp 8!
should be possible to make ears bleed....
I am confused. I thought transient response was the time it took the speaker to go from one position (sitting still) to another (moving). It's that transition that I thought was measured and called "transient response". If that is not transient response, what is that called?richie00boy said:Transient response is not really relevant as it will never play any transients, being a sub-woofer however, from a purely theoretical point of view, WinISD has a graph of transient/impulse response I think.
Also, do ported boxes increase that time from not moving to moving, or is that more controlled by the amp and its damping factor?
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