Well, I do get more than a fair share of "real", both through concerts and recording sessions and analog done right still comes closer to "real"l to my ears...
Different things in a musical experience are important to different individualsand is for shure one reason why different people prefer this or that.
What we normally listen to in our homes are just more or less flawed copies of what took place at the recording session. We also have differences in what best triggers our hearing memory, so what works for me might not work for someone else.
One comment on the specified dynamic range of different medias is that our hearing can penetrate the noise floor and pick up sounds quite a bit below it so in the end, the analog tape and the LP might not be all that far behind digital technically.
//Anders
Yes and I think its quite a shame!!bullpeters said:
I love analogue media,from VINYL to CASSETTE TAPES to VHS .. Nothing beats the natural warm sound/look of analog!!
I will not get any of these new VINYL records as I do not like digital at all!!!!
If i can get the media in ANALOGUE it is MUCH PREFERRED!!
Not all new records are digitally mastered, and amongst those that are could be many that are both musically involving and sound quite good.. I have plenty of pure analog vinyl that are neither.. I just buy whatever I feel like listening to and hope that they are at least acceptable sounding. I'm a big fan of vinyl, never abandoned it. Those who hate digital probably haven't heard really good digital, and yes I still prefer analog in general, but... Nothing is as good sounding as the real thing live, under any circumstances. Just sayin'.. 😀
nonsense - live music can suck badly, does so often - poor nite for the performers, bad seating, noisy crowd
and its not that easy to find live music that isn't arleady mediated by microphones, amps, compressors
just try to pry the cheap mic feeding the cardboard box speaker at her feet out of many club jazz singer's hands
and its not that easy to find live music that isn't arleady mediated by microphones, amps, compressors
just try to pry the cheap mic feeding the cardboard box speaker at her feet out of many club jazz singer's hands
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Sure, that's all true. I tend to avoid amplified live music except for rock, but the point I was really trying to make was not to automatically assume that because an LP was digitally mastered it would be totally unlistenable. It might or might not be, but how do you tell until you listen to it?
And IMHO (YMMV) to clarify nothing recorded sounds quite as good or real as really well performed live unamplified music in a near perfect venue with a respectful, enthusiastic audience. Good enough for you? 😛
For every argument anyone makes someone can make a counter argument without necessarily understanding the point being made.. 😀
For me the music comes first, and yeah I'd like it to sound really good (to my ears) regardless of its origins, but if it doesn't I might still enjoy it. All I was trying to say.
i think this thread is funny as in hahahaaaaa.
what was the original question again.. ohh yes that's right 'New " digital" vinyl vs old "analog" vinyl'
well the way i see it as long as the recording in digital is of very very high bit rate and the digital to analogue converters are of very good quality then i guess that yes it should sound good. after all its being cut in analogue.
but, the original recording is still digital. one thing high bit rate digital has over vinyl records is stereo bass and lower than 20hz as its physically impossible for the record to contain that kind of information.
right or wrong it was once explained to me in simple terms the difference between analogue and digital recording and it goes like this. imagine a sign wave, the analogue will go in a smooth line where the digital will be made up of steps to create the modulation. now whether the modulation is made up of millions of steps its still a step where analogue will be smooth. of course once the DA converter has done it's stuff it comes out as smooth (supposedly). the other thing about digital is what happens when bits are missing.
someone mentioned about up-scaling earlier in the thread and all i can say is hahahahahahaaaaaaaa as you cant put in what is not already there and all you are doing is breaking up 1 bit to say 4 bits but it's still that one bit it wont magically restore the information that is not there. so if we have 16/44 and covert it to 96/24 its still only 16/44 you have added nothing but more useless 1's and 0's.
analogue and digital is sound is a 'slice' of all frequency's together which make one at a certain length of time, you don't hear each individual instrument you hear them all together as one 'slice'. its the length of that slice that makes the difference and both vinyl and digital pale in comparison to the real thing so no matter how much you spend your life trying to create that illusionary mecca you wont get there and it will always be inferior. some inferior's will sound better than others but this is down to the individual.
here is one for you all to consider. blind from birth people perceive colour but what colour are they seeing in their mind as they have not been told that what we see as green is green.
what was the original question again.. ohh yes that's right 'New " digital" vinyl vs old "analog" vinyl'
well the way i see it as long as the recording in digital is of very very high bit rate and the digital to analogue converters are of very good quality then i guess that yes it should sound good. after all its being cut in analogue.
but, the original recording is still digital. one thing high bit rate digital has over vinyl records is stereo bass and lower than 20hz as its physically impossible for the record to contain that kind of information.
right or wrong it was once explained to me in simple terms the difference between analogue and digital recording and it goes like this. imagine a sign wave, the analogue will go in a smooth line where the digital will be made up of steps to create the modulation. now whether the modulation is made up of millions of steps its still a step where analogue will be smooth. of course once the DA converter has done it's stuff it comes out as smooth (supposedly). the other thing about digital is what happens when bits are missing.
someone mentioned about up-scaling earlier in the thread and all i can say is hahahahahahaaaaaaaa as you cant put in what is not already there and all you are doing is breaking up 1 bit to say 4 bits but it's still that one bit it wont magically restore the information that is not there. so if we have 16/44 and covert it to 96/24 its still only 16/44 you have added nothing but more useless 1's and 0's.
analogue and digital is sound is a 'slice' of all frequency's together which make one at a certain length of time, you don't hear each individual instrument you hear them all together as one 'slice'. its the length of that slice that makes the difference and both vinyl and digital pale in comparison to the real thing so no matter how much you spend your life trying to create that illusionary mecca you wont get there and it will always be inferior. some inferior's will sound better than others but this is down to the individual.
here is one for you all to consider. blind from birth people perceive colour but what colour are they seeing in their mind as they have not been told that what we see as green is green.
New vinyl from hi-res digital would be fine if it weren't mixed and heavily compressed to sound good on an iPod. Most of the new vinyl I have bought lately sounds crappy. Doesn't matter if it's a re-master or a new album, it lacks dynamic range and sounds like a car radio with (usually) better definition. I'm not sure it's worth discussing whether the chain is analog or digital or mix of two since the stuff I'm hearing doesn't approach the limits of any recording technology. With the sound quality being sold on vinyl today, why bother with the hassle of the mechanical medium?
Sorry about the rant, but I've got good gear and am getting really frustrated since it's damn near impossible to find quality sound from major artists on any source. The small minority of people that really care about audio quality aren't even on the radar of music companies.
Jim
Sorry about the rant, but I've got good gear and am getting really frustrated since it's damn near impossible to find quality sound from major artists on any source. The small minority of people that really care about audio quality aren't even on the radar of music companies.
Jim
Of course it sounds bad. DIGITAL IS A VOID. It has NO WARMTH,no depth...
Its sad these performers do things the cheaper way instead of doing it LIKE THEY USED TO: Totally analog!!! -- Why are they willing to compromise the sound of thier media??
Yes i do realise Kevin that NOT ALL NEW VINYL is digitally mastered but most is and its sad..... (You buy analog media to get better sound)
Its sad these performers do things the cheaper way instead of doing it LIKE THEY USED TO: Totally analog!!! -- Why are they willing to compromise the sound of thier media??
Yes i do realise Kevin that NOT ALL NEW VINYL is digitally mastered but most is and its sad..... (You buy analog media to get better sound)
What about so called repressings? Are they using the old masters or are they further compressing it?
I just don't agree that digital necessarily sounds bad. Some of the hi-res stuff played through a good DAC is as good as I'll ever need, but for some reason most of the hi-res stuff doesn't sound as good as it could. I put on a $7 used record store Nautilus direct-to-disk last night and thought the sound quality was stunning. Both hi-res digital and good vinyl are as good as I need to lose myself in the music.
Then I put on Alabama Shakes. Ack. The Strokes. Ack, etc. More on topic, the new Beatles re-masters are OK if you get past the lousy pressings, but they have been peak limited and lack "life". Most of the new vinyl re-issues have been re-mastered and don't sound like the old. The Classic Records stuff seems to be good, at least the 200g Brubeck Take Five seems to compare reasonably with the original. The Steve Hoffman remastered Joni Mitchell Blue claims to be from original master tape and is really nice - I would hope the rest of the series is as good. There are definitely some exceptions to "new is bad" but buyer beware - do some research first.
I can only surmise you're not using a decent DAC. My homebrewed multibit (based on TDA1387) has no problem at all producing bags of warmth and depth on RBCD. Are you using an S-D type DAC by any chance?
All the music lovers of my direct acquaintance, many of them musicians, loved analog when analog was all there was. Now without exception they prefer digital, but will still listen happily to analog, because they love listening to music, regardless of the recording medium.
When I see somebody say something like...
...I think. 'Hmm. Not a music lover..'
When I see somebody say something like...
...I think. 'Hmm. Not a music lover..'
i'll tell you whats a little sad...
sounds like you have preconceived notions and fond memories of when you could hear better, so the ritual and memory of playing vinyl is as much part of the experience as the listening. nobody will ever be able to show you good sounding digital because you have convinced yourself through nostalgia that it is inherently flawed vs analogue. Vinyl did and can still sound excellent, but good digital is NOT void, or lacking warmth with good program material.
but I dont expect you will ever admit that its good with that attitude. I grew up with vinyl as well at least till my twenties, but I wouldnt go back to having to use it for everything, no way
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excellent link. explained a lot more to me. but i suppose if i want to find out what happens to missing bits then i'll have to dig a bit. also the bandwidth limiting upsets me, no we cant hear it but we can feel it.
roll on mega bit rate as far as i'm concerned but until such times i'll personally stick to good old records. that's my personal choice and no one else's, i miss my open fire and the vinyl gives me that nice warm sound of the open fire just like the good old days.
roll on mega bit rate as far as i'm concerned but until such times i'll personally stick to good old records. that's my personal choice and no one else's, i miss my open fire and the vinyl gives me that nice warm sound of the open fire just like the good old days.
indianajo, you put out the right comments.
'I have a piano in between my speakers, and a piano recording played back does not sound like a real piano'
I say how can it? it's not that piano.
To me: the ears win.
Sometimes I just just like smashing a few tunes out of my acoustic guitar, or on the piano, and to me It sounds great (but probably no one else does lol).
So if the new vinyl is pressed from a digital recording sounds like crap, don't buy it!
Some cd's sound bland, some vinyl sounds thin, so find a good recording or pressing of some good music you love, and listen to it and allow the music to flow through your veins and smile, nod your head, do some air guitar, whatever you do to music you love, and be happy you have a piece of something great that has come together from Many Many artists and processes to get to your house and still sounds good!!!!
😀
'I have a piano in between my speakers, and a piano recording played back does not sound like a real piano'
I say how can it? it's not that piano.
To me: the ears win.
Sometimes I just just like smashing a few tunes out of my acoustic guitar, or on the piano, and to me It sounds great (but probably no one else does lol).
So if the new vinyl is pressed from a digital recording sounds like crap, don't buy it!
Some cd's sound bland, some vinyl sounds thin, so find a good recording or pressing of some good music you love, and listen to it and allow the music to flow through your veins and smile, nod your head, do some air guitar, whatever you do to music you love, and be happy you have a piece of something great that has come together from Many Many artists and processes to get to your house and still sounds good!!!!
😀
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