Two unscientific, in-room 3rd octave response sets below, for my 78L sealed boxes.
They give the general idea. Cabs are placed against the wall.
Response 1:
taken at 1m on axis, looking straight down the barrel at the dustcap:
Note the rising response, but it's fairly even apart from a peak at 8KHz, which is exactly like the Fostex FF225WK without damping ring.
Response 2:
taken 1m at 30deg off axis, which is representative in my room of listening in the near field, with the drivers pointing straight down the room.
Useful treble is maintained up to 16KHz (Fane claim 17KHz, which is probably about right)
Granted, it does roll down at that listening angle, but it is still a very good listen.
Obviously there may be a point somewhere in between, where the FR gets nice and flat. Nevertheless, these drivers do project a very useable, wide soundfield. Would love to compare this with the full-range 15"-er.
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I am new to speaker building and looking for full range speakers for my newly built ACA (6 W) amp. I spent hours and days the past months researching suitable FAST solutions, but there are just too many options and other things involved. I have now reached a point where I would rather like to try a single full range driver box - simple and (hopefully) sweet. Even here are many options, but working within my constraints (smallish footprint floor standers with high sensitivity drivers), the Fane 12” intrigues me.
These Fane FR (12” and 15”) drivers seem to have a devout following here, and probably for a reason. I see Fane recommends 30 to 75 Litre sealed enclosures for the 12” drivers. It would be simple to make a sealed box within those parameters and even one with a relatively small footprint. However as a complete novice I have some questions:
- Will any box within the 30 to 75 litres sound great? Bigger is probably better here too?
- Does the shape matter? Can I make the front baffle as narrow as practically possible (say 34cm) and simple adjust the depth and height until I get a suitable target volume?
- What I am most concerned about is the bass. Will I get satisfactory bass here for music (not HT) without a sub? I know this is very undefined and speculative, but will the bass compare to other single driver enclosures like the Frugal Horns or Pensils for eg? Steve's graphs above seems to indicate some good bass down to 40Hz, but I am not good at interpreting these graphs. Still learning.
I am missing something here, because it just seems too simple compared to other speaker builds.
These Fane FR (12” and 15”) drivers seem to have a devout following here, and probably for a reason. I see Fane recommends 30 to 75 Litre sealed enclosures for the 12” drivers. It would be simple to make a sealed box within those parameters and even one with a relatively small footprint. However as a complete novice I have some questions:
- Will any box within the 30 to 75 litres sound great? Bigger is probably better here too?
- Does the shape matter? Can I make the front baffle as narrow as practically possible (say 34cm) and simple adjust the depth and height until I get a suitable target volume?
- What I am most concerned about is the bass. Will I get satisfactory bass here for music (not HT) without a sub? I know this is very undefined and speculative, but will the bass compare to other single driver enclosures like the Frugal Horns or Pensils for eg? Steve's graphs above seems to indicate some good bass down to 40Hz, but I am not good at interpreting these graphs. Still learning.
I am missing something here, because it just seems too simple compared to other speaker builds.
You wish to make a single driver enclosure that requires no extra help in regards of bass?
It will not have a lot of bass by itself, in a closed box.
This is a high Qts driver, it will need some volume if you want to use it in a different type of box. Here is a floorstander with front-firing port, just an example. It will probably be very easy to drive with your ACA, plenty loud, with little bass below 30hz, rolls off and "feels" a bit like a closed box, but with lower extension. In room response should be very good.
Do not feed it more than 20 volts and you'll be fine.
It will not have a lot of bass by itself, in a closed box.
This is a high Qts driver, it will need some volume if you want to use it in a different type of box. Here is a floorstander with front-firing port, just an example. It will probably be very easy to drive with your ACA, plenty loud, with little bass below 30hz, rolls off and "feels" a bit like a closed box, but with lower extension. In room response should be very good.
Do not feed it more than 20 volts and you'll be fine.
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I think you have answered my concerns. Ok, so this is the problem with a closed box then, unless one applies lots of power and/or some EQ? This is exactly what I am trying to avoid currently.
The example (floorstander) you gave is a ported enclosure and a whopping 101 liters. That is not what I had in mind. Thank you.
Yes, that's what you are heading for if going without eq and a bit of power.
If you build it with 18mm material the outer dimensions including materials will be ca 89,5cm*38,6cm*38,6cm.
Just curious if it is the size or the port that is objectionable. Going from 75 liters to 101 liters is not a huge difference.
If you have any size constraints it is better to mention what you have to work with.
Edit:
Changing the numbers around for 33,6cm width of cabinet and 43,7cm depth and 90,5cm tall makes very similar numbers. Not a problem to nudge the numbers a little bit if it gets you closer to any possible solutions.
If you build it with 18mm material the outer dimensions including materials will be ca 89,5cm*38,6cm*38,6cm.
Just curious if it is the size or the port that is objectionable. Going from 75 liters to 101 liters is not a huge difference.
If you have any size constraints it is better to mention what you have to work with.
Edit:
Changing the numbers around for 33,6cm width of cabinet and 43,7cm depth and 90,5cm tall makes very similar numbers. Not a problem to nudge the numbers a little bit if it gets you closer to any possible solutions.
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Nah, not the port – it’s all about the size, isn’t it. Floor space in this case (the depth mainly), and WAF, and budget. Thank you for playing around with some numbers here, but as much as I was drooling over the reports of 15” or 12” FR driver sounds I will have to park this plan (as many of my other OB and FAST and WAW plans) for some other time. But I am glad I investigated this option and maybe it can still work someday in the future. Thanks.
Want to replace my Tannoy bookshelves on stands. Current footprint - width is 28cm, depth is 34cm and they are 95cm high. Although I pull them away from the wall for serious listening, the max depth will have to be less than 40cm. Max width 35cm, and height not higher than the current 95cm. I think a box with these external dimensions will appear rather large in comparison to the existing setup.
Ok, great! So you think this can work well (and sound good too)? The listening area of the room is quite small, sitting probably between 3 and 4 meters (12 feet) max from the speakers. I think I get some room gain currently, at least with one of the speakers which is kind of wedged between a cupboard and a room corner. I cannot interpret what you are telling me from the attached Hornresp parameters, but that's ok. One day I will probably start playing with things like Hornresp, REW, miniDSPs, etc, but for now I just want a simple FR solution, that sounds better than my 2-way bookshelves. Good response down to 33Hz would be fantastic. By the way - how is the off axis listening of these drivers?
Working with these dimensions, what iare the port sizes and where would one place the driver and port? I can pm you for this. Next thing might be to make a cardboard mock-up and see how it fits and get permission from SWMBO to pursue this. Thank you for your inputs.
Interesting that 75 litres is being used as a sealed box. I modelled the driver and a sealed box in Basta. Basta wants 300-350 litres. I also modelled 78 litres. The system Q is quite high in the smaller box, too high by normal theory, whereas 350 litres gives an optimally damped lf response...
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did GM mention a 223 MLTL? - I modeled one awhile back in a MLTL vs Acoustic Control 115BKI Karlson box. It may "play" decently in the Karlsonator12 - did not bother to measure it so don't know how much upper bass peaking - it did hit the rap bass notes.
250TC sounded very good in a Karlson 12 with its vent damped down - no peaking but no bass. 250TC had enough
midrange & treble strength to sound clear in the K12 without "artifacts" or resorting to damping material in the front chamber.
250TC sounded very good in a Karlson 12 with its vent damped down - no peaking but no bass. 250TC had enough
midrange & treble strength to sound clear in the K12 without "artifacts" or resorting to damping material in the front chamber.
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twocents:
Yes, I think it will sound good. And the low end output is better than a closed box of the same volume.
But these drivers really want to have more volume.
Regarding off-axis response: I do not have any first hand experience with the 12-250TC, I only have the 15-300TC (previously known as FC152). Very happy with those.
Yes, I think it will sound good. And the low end output is better than a closed box of the same volume.
But these drivers really want to have more volume.
Regarding off-axis response: I do not have any first hand experience with the 12-250TC, I only have the 15-300TC (previously known as FC152). Very happy with those.
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Make it closed but/and set a resistor (1-2 ohm?) in series?
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Make it closed but/and set a resistor (1-2 ohm?) in series?
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Thanks KaffiMann, I take note.
??? On that website they say “Double bass-reflex design with bi-directional airflow optimized rounded downfire tubes for maximum bass performance.”
That is clearly NOT closed or sealed, or am I missing something here?
I don't understand why would you add resistors?
Are you still talking about Fane 12 inch? which driver do you want to use?
this one? : https://www.fane-international.com/downloads/Fane-Sovereign-12250TC-DS240316.pdf
Are you still talking about Fane 12 inch? which driver do you want to use?
this one? : https://www.fane-international.com/downloads/Fane-Sovereign-12250TC-DS240316.pdf
