Hi All - I'm building the Dallas II cabinets for a Fostex 208ez ('sigma') and T90A super tweeter and was wondering if anyone can recommend my first valve / tube amp to use with them?
I am so intrigued by these amps and want my first experience to be a really good one, but without making me bankrupt! I don't want to explain how little I have to spend on one, but rather just welcome your suggestions, please.
Many thanks,
Wayne.
I am so intrigued by these amps and want my first experience to be a really good one, but without making me bankrupt! I don't want to explain how little I have to spend on one, but rather just welcome your suggestions, please.
Many thanks,
Wayne.
…Hey Wayne,
I have to admit to being an ex-transistor advocate. I bought my first Valve amp from china over 15 years ago and the dramatic difference was obvious and I liked it, A LOT!
I based my decisions back then on the frequency range and power per channel.
You can still pick up Music Angels XD-800 Mrk III cheaply enough which are fundamentally 2x KT88 amplifiers in the same chassis.
Specifications
Power : 65 watts x 2 in ultra-linear mode 30watts x 2 for triode mode
Output Tube : KT88x 4
Input/Driver Tube : ECC85 x 2, ECC82 x 2
Ohms : 4 ohms and 8 ohms
Frequency : 7Hz-70KHz +/-3 dB
Signal/Noise Ratio : 90dB
Distortion : Less than 1% at full power
Input Consumption : 250w
Weight : 26kg
When you start to get adventurous there are lots of sites that show you how to upgrade them.
There is also a "new" generation coming out of China based on the GU50 which might be worth considering.
I have to admit to being an ex-transistor advocate. I bought my first Valve amp from china over 15 years ago and the dramatic difference was obvious and I liked it, A LOT!
I based my decisions back then on the frequency range and power per channel.
You can still pick up Music Angels XD-800 Mrk III cheaply enough which are fundamentally 2x KT88 amplifiers in the same chassis.
Specifications
Power : 65 watts x 2 in ultra-linear mode 30watts x 2 for triode mode
Output Tube : KT88x 4
Input/Driver Tube : ECC85 x 2, ECC82 x 2
Ohms : 4 ohms and 8 ohms
Frequency : 7Hz-70KHz +/-3 dB
Signal/Noise Ratio : 90dB
Distortion : Less than 1% at full power
Input Consumption : 250w
Weight : 26kg
When you start to get adventurous there are lots of sites that show you how to upgrade them.
There is also a "new" generation coming out of China based on the GU50 which might be worth considering.
Now that you have made that clear, I can tell you that UK based 'World Designs' supply both kit and built versions of their excellent integrated valve amplifiers.
integrated amplifiers
Given the high sensitivity of your speakers, the 'KEL84 Integrated 15W' would be a suitable introduction to valve amplification.
I wonder if £795 plus the £230 build cost would make you bankrupt?
The 'Quad VA-One' is another 15W, EL84 amp, but includes a built in DAC.
VA-One | QUAD | the closest approach to the original sound
Price is around £1300 new and £850 used at auction.
An amplifier ultimately does one thing - amplify. The final result depends on it's design and build quality, of course. With that stated, the differences between transistor and tube amplification can be inaudible, or "colored". The popular spread of "tube" sound with it's identifications such as "warm sounding", etc, is all merely rhetoric based on coloration, and less than "perfect" sonics. An amplifier's damping factor has a lot to do with overall sonics, and with tube equipment it's subsantially lower than transistor amplifiers, resulting in a more "sloppy" sound, particualarly bass, plus the output transformer itself determines its sound signature. Some people are drawn to tube equipment for the fascination of having "glowing tubes" - which of course has nothing to do with quality, only being a superficial item.
While all amplifiers benefit of from having some "maintainance" done, tube equipment requires more usually, and variables in tube quality changes the sonics as well.
The bottom line here is - this fascination with tube amps creates curiosity among people because of its being "hyped" by others for various reasons. Yes, I've got a tube amp, to see what all the hype is about. It's a custom-built EL84 design with researched "improvements" and a solid build quality, built by myself. In actual use, and at the same "room filling" volume levels as my Technics transistor amplifier, the difference is inaudible, and actually surprised me when I did an instant "A/B test". So all the hype generated about that "sound" is mainly the result of coloration, which is against purity of sound, something the audiophiles dislike, yet others enjoy.
While all amplifiers benefit of from having some "maintainance" done, tube equipment requires more usually, and variables in tube quality changes the sonics as well.
The bottom line here is - this fascination with tube amps creates curiosity among people because of its being "hyped" by others for various reasons. Yes, I've got a tube amp, to see what all the hype is about. It's a custom-built EL84 design with researched "improvements" and a solid build quality, built by myself. In actual use, and at the same "room filling" volume levels as my Technics transistor amplifier, the difference is inaudible, and actually surprised me when I did an instant "A/B test". So all the hype generated about that "sound" is mainly the result of coloration, which is against purity of sound, something the audiophiles dislike, yet others enjoy.
I'm with Galu and others who suggested tube amps on this one.
The whole tubeamp/transistor amp discussion is like the pineapple on pizza "discussion" You are either for or against or don't care. There is no nuance. But there is you see. Pizza with pineapple that goes in the oven is disgusting. Pizza that has been in the oven and THEN you add the pineapple is great.
And so it is with single driver, highish efficiency speakers. Stuff that many say does not matter like audibility of a capacitor.... which I find indeed very hard or impossible to hear on transistor amps (pushpull) and low efficiency loudspeakers .....are suddenly of make or break importance with your type of speaker. And so it is with transistor amps and your speakers...much harder to get something decent sounding. If you had say revel speakers..then by all means...get a transistor amp.
Ok. So looking at the speaker you are planning to use. I would indeed suggest a valve/tube amp. More specifically a single ended tube amp based on say an el84 or similar. Something like a Decware Zen. The DECWARE Zen Triode Single-Ended Amplifier model SE84UFO
Not sure if there are UK or European analogs to this amp.
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Atm I have 2 tube amps, both DIY, one 300b se and one 2a3pp. I build them 20+years ago. Other than that, I have 3 solid-state amps I bought or got for free, all non DIY.
Some years ago I did a ABX test and recorded the outputs of the amps into a recorder with the speakers connected. The speaker I used was a DIY Dynaudio Foccus, this speaker has an impedance correction so that mid impedance is flat.
The result of the test was that I couldn't hear a difference between the tube and transistor amps at listening levels of 80dB spl. At higher spl's the tube amps start to compress and eventually fart out, but the ss amps don't.
Some years ago I did a ABX test and recorded the outputs of the amps into a recorder with the speakers connected. The speaker I used was a DIY Dynaudio Foccus, this speaker has an impedance correction so that mid impedance is flat.
The result of the test was that I couldn't hear a difference between the tube and transistor amps at listening levels of 80dB spl. At higher spl's the tube amps start to compress and eventually fart out, but the ss amps don't.
Plenty of options. I'd suggest a reliable classic to start so it should be easy to fix if you're unlucky enough to need it and easy to sell for little or no loss if you move on. A Leak Stereo 20 or 2 x Leak TL12+ would be perfect, easy to get valves, no need to match them, good measured performance and sound great. Should be around £600 or so (in UK).
I also have Lowther Tp1's, same result.
Edit: Same result if I added a small but high wattage resistor to the transistor amp.
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Line Magnetic makes the rather good EL-84 SE amp, the Line Magnetic LM-mini84IA wich is sold in Europe for 800€. It's only 3w but that can be enough for a +97dB speaker like the horns you are making if you don't want it too loud or in a real big space. Average listening volume in a average living room has more than enough power with this amp and speakers.
If you want more power, That same brand also makes EL-34 PP amps for about 1500€ (the Line Magnetic LM-211IA). If you can spend a bit more i would buy Prima Luna (Evo100 integrated wich is 2300€) wich are better, but those Line Magnetic LM-211A's are more than decent and certainly a good start.
I would not go the cheap chinese amp way, It's not that they can't build good amps (they do), but as noob you can't judge wich are good and wich not. Even experienced people can only make a guess on what they see that it's well build or not...
If you want more power, That same brand also makes EL-34 PP amps for about 1500€ (the Line Magnetic LM-211IA). If you can spend a bit more i would buy Prima Luna (Evo100 integrated wich is 2300€) wich are better, but those Line Magnetic LM-211A's are more than decent and certainly a good start.
I would not go the cheap chinese amp way, It's not that they can't build good amps (they do), but as noob you can't judge wich are good and wich not. Even experienced people can only make a guess on what they see that it's well build or not...
Thanks Bas - I really appreciate this. Why do you recommend a single ended tube amp (and based on EL84s)? What is it about those which suits the speakers I’ll be using, instead of something else? Many thanks...
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