As the title says, if I am combining multiple MiniDSP units, will they all play nice together? For starters, do the the older devices work with the newest version of DC?
I am currently using the HTx unit, which I purchased to be an active crossover for a 4 way system. But now I'd like to expand into multi-channel, so I need a lot more channels of DSP!
I found a MiniDSP 4x10hd on ebay, and I realized that I would need 2 of the 4x10 units to get all the channels I need for a 7.1 system. The idea would be to use the HTx as an AVR replacement, and the 4x10hd units as the active crossovers. This is assuming the 4 way active main speakers, and the rest of the system are 2 way active speakers. (I'd need 18 channels.)
But how well will that work? I'm a little concerned that the 5 PEQs per channel on the 4x10hd might annoy me later. I can combine the input and output EQs, and further tweek on the HTx output EQs...but that's a lot of EQs to keep track of!
And I noticed that the MiniDSP units don't have a 12v trigger input, so it seems they are not intended to be networked together. Granted I could wire in relays to turn everything on and off with a 12v trigger, but that is becoming a little complicated.
Any thoughts or experience?
I am currently using the HTx unit, which I purchased to be an active crossover for a 4 way system. But now I'd like to expand into multi-channel, so I need a lot more channels of DSP!
I found a MiniDSP 4x10hd on ebay, and I realized that I would need 2 of the 4x10 units to get all the channels I need for a 7.1 system. The idea would be to use the HTx as an AVR replacement, and the 4x10hd units as the active crossovers. This is assuming the 4 way active main speakers, and the rest of the system are 2 way active speakers. (I'd need 18 channels.)
But how well will that work? I'm a little concerned that the 5 PEQs per channel on the 4x10hd might annoy me later. I can combine the input and output EQs, and further tweek on the HTx output EQs...but that's a lot of EQs to keep track of!
And I noticed that the MiniDSP units don't have a 12v trigger input, so it seems they are not intended to be networked together. Granted I could wire in relays to turn everything on and off with a 12v trigger, but that is becoming a little complicated.
Any thoughts or experience?
Whereas I find my 4x10HD to be superb. No accounting for taste. Used digital in and digital out what's not to like for the money?
@fredygump you have a somewhat extreme use case there and suspect you need to be looking at something beefier. something like this https://www.bodziosoftware.com.au/ assuming you can get the channels into it. You might also need to look more to the semi-pro end of the market where you can get 14 channel DACs that are synced up as you will need. But that is not an area I have closely looked into.
@fredygump you have a somewhat extreme use case there and suspect you need to be looking at something beefier. something like this https://www.bodziosoftware.com.au/ assuming you can get the channels into it. You might also need to look more to the semi-pro end of the market where you can get 14 channel DACs that are synced up as you will need. But that is not an area I have closely looked into.
Maybe its a good deal for the money but in absolute terms its likely somewhere in the middle of what it could be. IMHO and IME that sort to seems to be where they try to position themselves in the market.
Looks like I might not be alone in feeling some things could potentially be a little better:
https://neurochrome.com/pages/minidsp-4x10hd
Also, I bought some of their stuff some years ago, and examined a box a friend had. Told my friend what he got wasn't worth trying to fix up.
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Well... Yes, older miniDSP products with ADC and/or DAC were (in my and others' experience) not high end soundwise, but really affordable. The latest product families like the Flex series seem to quite successfully address the ADC/DAC weaknesses of older products, but they are (therefore?) more expensive as well.
BTW: In my own implementation I have therefore used the openDRC DI platform which "just" does DSP, ADC/DAC functions are external. This may not be a viable solution for @fredygump, though...
Regards,
Winfried
BTW: In my own implementation I have therefore used the openDRC DI platform which "just" does DSP, ADC/DAC functions are external. This may not be a viable solution for @fredygump, though...
Regards,
Winfried
I posted on their "suggestions box" forum that I'd like a "expansion unit" compatible with their HTx. No activity over there yet...
The new units are sonically quite good, but I don't know about the older units. I'm going rack mount with everything, so I don't need an impressive box, if that is what you are referring to.
According to Amir's reviews at ASR forum, they outperform any AVR at any price. And as DACs they're still pretty dang good...although there are a few 2 channel DACs that are better still.
I'm not sure I would go that far.
Maybe DIY multichannel speakers are a novelty right now? I don't know. Most people around here are talking about stereo speakers, so that may be the case.
But why not build a DIY multichannel system? And why not use active crossovers in this DIY multichannel system? Active crossovers have all the advantages. Neither of these things is new.
Maybe I should spend my energy on researching Class D amp modules with built in DSP? I need both the amplifiers and DSP.
Maybe so. However I would take some of those measurements with a grain of salt when it comes to devices like dacs. The reasons are somewhat involved so I would leave it at that unless maybe there are there are specific questions.
I was responding to the comment about the "quality" of the unit, and the internals are what matter to me, not how fancy the box is. And the internals seem quite good.
The characteristic that matters to me is low risidual noise. I'm using PA coaxial drivers with horns on my main speakers, and the first processor I bought was quite noisy. Despite having massive L-pads on the horns, the hissing was significant. But when I replaced it with the MiniDSP HTx, the noise was gone. I can just barely make out a slight hiss if I put my ear against the horn now. (Everyone says, "it's a ground loop" or something similar, but it isn't. It's just high sensitivity horns. I'm kind of tired of that conversation, so let us not go there? Thanks.)
I would just check to see what models are compatible with DC. My 2018 SHD was fully compatible once I applied all of the updates.
Horns with DSP is quite viable.
I used the SHD with DIY analog XO with horn based system and it was quiet without padding. Current system is only stereo with MiniDSP SHD Studio into Danley SC-48 to 4 way speaker systems. It is possible to find gear that is quiet enough not to require padding the horns. Horns on mids and highs are 110dB efficient and quiet.
Horns with DSP is quite viable.
I used the SHD with DIY analog XO with horn based system and it was quiet without padding. Current system is only stereo with MiniDSP SHD Studio into Danley SC-48 to 4 way speaker systems. It is possible to find gear that is quiet enough not to require padding the horns. Horns on mids and highs are 110dB efficient and quiet.
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A big consideration for me is cost of the entire system and just having a system that makes sense as far as how it operates.
I did some quick math and figured that I paid ~$250/ channel on my Emotiva XPA amp (8 channels). Then I figured that the HTx costs around $120/ channel.
If I expand my system using the same components, for each 2 way speaker it would cost $240 for 2 channels of DSP + $500 for 2 channelas of amplification. So $740 per 2 way speaker.
So now I'm taking a little more interest at the MiniDSP Icepower plate amps. I thought they were a little expensive before, but by comparison, they may be a good deal. The 2x 125 watt (into 4 ohms) version costs $400. I already know that the amp module is extremely low noise; it costs $230 by itself.
If I used the plate amps, I would still need 2 HTx units, plus the plate amps. One HTx would be an AVR replacement/ multichannel preamp, and the second HTx would be DSP for my 4-way main speakers.
This option would probably make more sense than having a rack full of processors and amplifiers, plus it would be a bit cheaper.
I did some quick math and figured that I paid ~$250/ channel on my Emotiva XPA amp (8 channels). Then I figured that the HTx costs around $120/ channel.
If I expand my system using the same components, for each 2 way speaker it would cost $240 for 2 channels of DSP + $500 for 2 channelas of amplification. So $740 per 2 way speaker.
So now I'm taking a little more interest at the MiniDSP Icepower plate amps. I thought they were a little expensive before, but by comparison, they may be a good deal. The 2x 125 watt (into 4 ohms) version costs $400. I already know that the amp module is extremely low noise; it costs $230 by itself.
If I used the plate amps, I would still need 2 HTx units, plus the plate amps. One HTx would be an AVR replacement/ multichannel preamp, and the second HTx would be DSP for my 4-way main speakers.
This option would probably make more sense than having a rack full of processors and amplifiers, plus it would be a bit cheaper.
I am using Icepower 125ASX-2 to drive my Onken bass cabinets (Iconic 165-8G woofer) from 45Hz - 890Hz and have no complaints. (Very clean and quiet.) I use diy 300B SE amps to drive the horns. (A-290/TD-4001 and STH100/HF10AK) Subs are class D. Cabling in the analog domain is balanced XLR, and in the digital AES/EBU at 2496.
I built mine with a 125ASX-2 module I had to import from the EU, and a box from Ghent Audio. https://www.ebay.com/itm/325321243371. I replaced the RCA with XLR and added a pair of Lundahl 1544 transformers. You might want to shop around for the most cost effective solution since you need a lot of amps. 
I like that case.
Your build is a good reference point for me. To me it looks like the MiniDSP plate amp will end up costing around the same amount, but it also includes DSP processing.
Fortunately I don't need to buy amps for a complete ATMOS system, atleast not yet! I'm beginning with a center channel right now, so I just need one plate amp with 2 channels. And the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of using plate amps on the center and surround speakers.
I have my eye on the FaitalPro LTH102 horn (60x50 pattern). Either that or the Ciare PR614 (60x40 pattern). My main speakers have B&C 12FHX76 coaxials, which have a 60x40 pattern for the horn. I haven't chosen a compression driver for my center yet. I don't really know where to start, and I don't need to decide right now.
I am going to experiment with building my center similar to how line array cabinets are built, with the woofers inset and angled. The idea is to get the two drivers will be close enough together that the horizontal directivity of the center channel matches the 12" coaxials of my main speakers. (I don't think I want to use a 12" coaxial for my center. Maybe I should do that, but it would be a really tall center.)
You might look at Hypex Fusion two or three channel plate amps with integrated DSP for each speaker. To build a four way speaker you would need a passive crossover between two drivers. They cut down on the clutter and interconnects and separate amps. You could then send just a single digital feed to each speaker from a miniDSP. The Hypex amps will chain together and can pull L or R channel from the digital stream.
I was looking at their plate amps a little.
Do you have experience with these products? I'd be looking at the FA122, which seems to be equivalent to the MiniDSP. It would cost a little more than the MiniDSP after shipping.
My 4 way main speakers are already taken care of. I'm just concerned with the surround channels at this point.
I'm looking at the Hypex website, but I'm not finding manuals that explain the unit's DSP capabilities in detail.
The hypex has "15 biquads" vs the MiniDSP's 6 PEQs (+ high and low crossovers). I'm not sure if "15 biquads" is more or less adjustment than the Minidsp? From what I've read, it sounds like you need to stack biquads to get high order filters, which will eat up biquads pretty fast. I assume the crossovers are also entered as biquads, so those 15 biquads may end up being about the same amount of adjustments as the MiniDSP?
I have used the Hypex Fusion FA 503 and the FA 253. When you consider the cost of equivalent amplifiers, miniDSP, speaker cables and coax cables these are a bargain. I actually configured speakers with the miniDSP, separate amps etc and then did a second system for the same customer with the Hypex. The Hypex system was much more compact and simple in the end.
You can download the Hypex software anytime. Go to the Hypex website, on the page for the plate amp, click on the downloads tab, scroll to the bottom. There's a like to HFD Hypex filter designer. In the .zip file is the software and a .pdf of and extensive manual explaining all the filters and amplifiers. Without the amplifiers connected you can configure and save filters. It enables an additional page of amplifier configuration when you are connected to the actual amp. These are the model specific gains, inputs, limiters etc. To add a filter you just click on the response graph and it puts a little dot there and you right click on that dot to change the filter parameters. It's a little weird. You stack dots in the same place on the graph to cascade 2nd order filters to produce 4th order etc. There are 15 2nd order biquad filters per amplifier channel. So that's plenty. Yes, those are used to produce the crossover and driver EQ. I think there is another set of filters for the input signal to do room correction, just like the miniDSP. They enabled FIR filters several months ago. They run at a sample rate that was unfamiliar to me. See the .pdf
I used a pair of the FA 503 to drive a set of Magnepan 3.7i speakers and a pair of FA253 to drive four 12" sealed subwoofers. That system is now full range, very accurate and gets used daily as play back monitoring for the performers in a recording studio.
You can download the Hypex software anytime. Go to the Hypex website, on the page for the plate amp, click on the downloads tab, scroll to the bottom. There's a like to HFD Hypex filter designer. In the .zip file is the software and a .pdf of and extensive manual explaining all the filters and amplifiers. Without the amplifiers connected you can configure and save filters. It enables an additional page of amplifier configuration when you are connected to the actual amp. These are the model specific gains, inputs, limiters etc. To add a filter you just click on the response graph and it puts a little dot there and you right click on that dot to change the filter parameters. It's a little weird. You stack dots in the same place on the graph to cascade 2nd order filters to produce 4th order etc. There are 15 2nd order biquad filters per amplifier channel. So that's plenty. Yes, those are used to produce the crossover and driver EQ. I think there is another set of filters for the input signal to do room correction, just like the miniDSP. They enabled FIR filters several months ago. They run at a sample rate that was unfamiliar to me. See the .pdf
I used a pair of the FA 503 to drive a set of Magnepan 3.7i speakers and a pair of FA253 to drive four 12" sealed subwoofers. That system is now full range, very accurate and gets used daily as play back monitoring for the performers in a recording studio.