That's very cool Shagone. I do tube amp repair on the side and build kits and such. Wish I could build a tube amp for the front speakers. I do need to get a very small amp for just the sub. The front amp will be tiny. I'm trying to keep the cost to sound reasonable.
I'll check out those amps. I have looked at the PDX on-line but they're pretty expensive just for the sub. Maybe we can hook up someday.
I'll check out those amps. I have looked at the PDX on-line but they're pretty expensive just for the sub. Maybe we can hook up someday.
I'm looking at these speakers for the front. I'm wondering what you guys think.
For the 6.5
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=78
And two choices of tweeters:
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8177
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=541
I'll have to go with 6x9s in the rear. I talked to a dealer with CDTs and he swears they won't go to subwoofer frequencies but I guess no 6x9 will. Its between that and the Tangs.
Any recommendations for active crossovers? I'll need a 3-way naturally.
Appreciate the help
For the 6.5
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=78
And two choices of tweeters:
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8177
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=541
I'll have to go with 6x9s in the rear. I talked to a dealer with CDTs and he swears they won't go to subwoofer frequencies but I guess no 6x9 will. Its between that and the Tangs.
Any recommendations for active crossovers? I'll need a 3-way naturally.
Appreciate the help
The woofer looks like a good choice but i would look at this tweeter.
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1466
you could cross it over at 2,500 hz to pull your soundstage up higher. i like to aim my tweets at the dome light ion the center of the headliner so that they cross in the cemnter providing a nice sweet spot. you can also experiment with different aiming methods and phase settings until you get the desired sound.
i always liked audiocontrol crossovers. the older ones were very nice and you can pick them up used for good prices.
these are the cdt 6x9" subs cl-69 (91db effeciency!)
http://www.ultimate-sounds.com/cdtaudio/103.htm
they go down to 45hz which is as low as most 8's will go. a subsonic filter would be a good idea to block the very low bass and save power for the rest. audiocontrol products include these in most of their products with a selectable frequency via a chip. you could use a 3 way audiocontrol crossover and set the subs and mids to 100hz and the tweets to 2,500hz. these crossovers have a nice built in line driver as well.
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1466
you could cross it over at 2,500 hz to pull your soundstage up higher. i like to aim my tweets at the dome light ion the center of the headliner so that they cross in the cemnter providing a nice sweet spot. you can also experiment with different aiming methods and phase settings until you get the desired sound.
i always liked audiocontrol crossovers. the older ones were very nice and you can pick them up used for good prices.
these are the cdt 6x9" subs cl-69 (91db effeciency!)
http://www.ultimate-sounds.com/cdtaudio/103.htm
they go down to 45hz which is as low as most 8's will go. a subsonic filter would be a good idea to block the very low bass and save power for the rest. audiocontrol products include these in most of their products with a selectable frequency via a chip. you could use a 3 way audiocontrol crossover and set the subs and mids to 100hz and the tweets to 2,500hz. these crossovers have a nice built in line driver as well.
Thanks! Its interesting I looked at those tweets and I couldn't figure out any difference between those and the H1406. Is it just the mounting hardware? Anyway, those seem fine to me. I'll have to figure how to angle them.
These were recommendations from the Madisound people. They were cool but I could tell they were loath to discuss car audio. If you have a better suggestion for the mids I'm interested.
I guess I'll go with the CDTs then. They look like better construction than the Tangs.
Any models of AudioControl you like as I cruise eBay or as a friend put it, OyBay.
These were recommendations from the Madisound people. They were cool but I could tell they were loath to discuss car audio. If you have a better suggestion for the mids I'm interested.
I guess I'll go with the CDTs then. They look like better construction than the Tangs.
Any models of AudioControl you like as I cruise eBay or as a friend put it, OyBay.
i just had an idea for your setup.
if you plan on putting tweets in your factory 3.5" locations then you might want to seriousely consider one of these two tang band mid-tweeters. you can't beat the price for experimenting, and they don't need tons of power!
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-808
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-805
they look like the same drivers that the top 2 speakers on this page are based on when you compare the specs and the pictures from the reveiws page of cdt's site:
http://www.cdtaudio.com/new_breed_drivers.htm
same driver as these as well:
http://www.bavariansoundwerks.com/p...rs-for-BMW-3-Series-Sedan--Wagon-99-05--E46-/
i used 2 of the paper cone tang-bands to replace my blown bmw mids and they work awsome except at very high volumes. but that is because i have the bass on my head unit way up for now until i install my 12" sub with a seperate amp. i may try a small sealed enclosure for them as cdt suggests for theirs. maybe out of fiberglass with a bit of polyfill inside.
for your application you could just add a bit of polyfill to the existing pod and make a thin mdf mounting baffle. they should extend smoothly up to 20,000hz and down to 500hz with a 12db x-over or 1,000hz with a 6db x-over. imagine the midrange response you could get up high with these! if you use the paper cone version you could even hand coat them like the CDT's with some type of thin coating like clear teflon fingernail polish (i may try this with mine).
if you plan on putting tweets in your factory 3.5" locations then you might want to seriousely consider one of these two tang band mid-tweeters. you can't beat the price for experimenting, and they don't need tons of power!
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-808
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-805
they look like the same drivers that the top 2 speakers on this page are based on when you compare the specs and the pictures from the reveiws page of cdt's site:
http://www.cdtaudio.com/new_breed_drivers.htm
same driver as these as well:
http://www.bavariansoundwerks.com/p...rs-for-BMW-3-Series-Sedan--Wagon-99-05--E46-/
i used 2 of the paper cone tang-bands to replace my blown bmw mids and they work awsome except at very high volumes. but that is because i have the bass on my head unit way up for now until i install my 12" sub with a seperate amp. i may try a small sealed enclosure for them as cdt suggests for theirs. maybe out of fiberglass with a bit of polyfill inside.
for your application you could just add a bit of polyfill to the existing pod and make a thin mdf mounting baffle. they should extend smoothly up to 20,000hz and down to 500hz with a 12db x-over or 1,000hz with a 6db x-over. imagine the midrange response you could get up high with these! if you use the paper cone version you could even hand coat them like the CDT's with some type of thin coating like clear teflon fingernail polish (i may try this with mine).
http://cgi.ebay.com/AUDIOCONTROL-3X...ryZ14931QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Would that work for the front 2-way system and the pair of rear 6x9?
Do you know if BMW sets the curves from their integrated headunits or is it coming from amp. A lot of installers insisted I would need a JL Audio Cleansweep to flatten the repsonse. I'm trying to keep the amount of gear to a tiny footprint so I can hide it all.
I getting stoked this could be something.
I was friends way back with a speaker manufacturer and they used to coat their speakers with a thin coat of RTV which I think you're referring to although I'm sure there's better choices now.
Would that work for the front 2-way system and the pair of rear 6x9?
Do you know if BMW sets the curves from their integrated headunits or is it coming from amp. A lot of installers insisted I would need a JL Audio Cleansweep to flatten the repsonse. I'm trying to keep the amount of gear to a tiny footprint so I can hide it all.
I getting stoked this could be something.
I was friends way back with a speaker manufacturer and they used to coat their speakers with a thin coat of RTV which I think you're referring to although I'm sure there's better choices now.
i always prefer soft domes for highs but this is a whole new concept but worth investigating. my bet is that they will work fine and sound awesome. they have a very wide dispersion. the paper cone version is only a bit cheaper but one reviewer said that the poly cone version with the metal phase plug was a bit metallic sounding. i would try the paper cone and add some type of light coating to smooth the responce and to add protection from mouisture. what have you got to lose but $30.00!
for mid bass, these are worth looking into:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-372
for mid bass, these are worth looking into:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-372
I'm lazy these days and its my wife's car so I want to get it right the first time. I need to redo my car next. There I could care less how many times I get into it. Plus getting all the panels off a Mini is a real PIA.
Those mids look good. I wouldn't mind ordering from the same place and save a little s/h. Think they'll work as good or better than the Madisound rec? They sure look cool. I'm a sucker for the diffuser in speakers.
Those mids look good. I wouldn't mind ordering from the same place and save a little s/h. Think they'll work as good or better than the Madisound rec? They sure look cool. I'm a sucker for the diffuser in speakers.
phrarod said:
here is a link to the 3xs manual.
http://www.biggz.com/auctions/manual/audiocontrol3xs.pdf
you could use the front and rear outs for the mids and tweets and the sub out for the sub. you would just have to build your own frequency chips with resistors (no problem).
as far as the factory bmw curves go i know in most of them the crossovers are built into the factory amps like in my e46 328i. i'm not sure about yours but it probably is. you could even go with the front and rear speaker upgrades first off of the factory amp to get you by. that is what i did and it was a huge improvement over the factory harmon kardon system. i used A/D/S mids up front with soundstream exact tweeters and the tang band mids. i actually get some imaging and soundstage with the factory amp and factory alpine head unit.
i don't agree that you need the clean sweep. just take the signal straight from the deck. the audiocontrol 3xs can take a balanced signal directly like i have coming from my bmw(alpine) e46 head unit if that is what yours has too.
the thin layer of rtd sounds like a decent idea but a good search of the net and this forum might yield some other ideas as well.
phrarod said:
the price is right on them and they don't need tons of power plus they are more efficient than the others and they play down low to 50-55hz so you can get some up front bass. just make sure you have enough mounting depth. they are 6" so diameter should fit better than the 6.5". plus they have good reviews and one guy used them in truck doors with good results off of 25 watts! he said not much low output but he probably didn't let them break in first or didn't seal the doors with dynamat.
I'll do research on what to put on the cone to treat it.
The head unit is an integral part of the dash and connot be changed out at all or I would in a heartbeat. Its part of the speedo and there's a screen that shows several functions which would be lost if its changed.
I'm glad I don't need a cleansweep. Too many peices of gear. I'm wondering if my dream of a T-amp is realistic. I know several people are doing it with the 41Hz Amp 9 and I suspect the amp I want to use will sound better but its only 15W. I built one for a bedroom system and it just blows away amps costing $3000. Here's a link: http://diyparadise.com/charlize2.html
Here's 41Hz. http://www.41hz.com/ Site sucks that you can't save the link to page. Go to amplifiers and then click on Amp9. A lot more output than the above amp.
The Charlize amp is one of the most impressively music amps I've heard in a long time and I deal in ultra high end audio clients. A friend who's a retired studio engineer is on a fixed income and just got out of audio altogether. I had him get that Charlize and the little Monica DAC they make and showed him how to build it. He freaks out how incredible it sounds. I just found a switching power supply that makes it even better. With battery power it would be awesome.
I've never head a car amp that I thought was sophisticated in its presentation. Just thump and bright. I went and heard Audisyn, JL Audio and others and I was left thinking it sounded like a car stereo.
The head unit is an integral part of the dash and connot be changed out at all or I would in a heartbeat. Its part of the speedo and there's a screen that shows several functions which would be lost if its changed.
I'm glad I don't need a cleansweep. Too many peices of gear. I'm wondering if my dream of a T-amp is realistic. I know several people are doing it with the 41Hz Amp 9 and I suspect the amp I want to use will sound better but its only 15W. I built one for a bedroom system and it just blows away amps costing $3000. Here's a link: http://diyparadise.com/charlize2.html
Here's 41Hz. http://www.41hz.com/ Site sucks that you can't save the link to page. Go to amplifiers and then click on Amp9. A lot more output than the above amp.
The Charlize amp is one of the most impressively music amps I've heard in a long time and I deal in ultra high end audio clients. A friend who's a retired studio engineer is on a fixed income and just got out of audio altogether. I had him get that Charlize and the little Monica DAC they make and showed him how to build it. He freaks out how incredible it sounds. I just found a switching power supply that makes it even better. With battery power it would be awesome.
I've never head a car amp that I thought was sophisticated in its presentation. Just thump and bright. I went and heard Audisyn, JL Audio and others and I was left thinking it sounded like a car stereo.
it looks like you could run that amp9 directly off of car power from the alternator?? that's an idea! i have heard they sound nice. i have the original t-amp and i plan to re-case it and mod it up a bit when time permits.
maybe you could use seperate amps for the mids, highs, and bass?
i'd go with the audiocontrol just because i trust them, they have great features, and used ones are affordable.
if you want to hear great in car audio look into old school A/D/S amps. very nice! the gray ones were the best and some were pretty small. i have several stashed in my garage for future use along with some old school x-tant amps with hand matched fets. those are larger but sound great too.
maybe you could use seperate amps for the mids, highs, and bass?
i'd go with the audiocontrol just because i trust them, they have great features, and used ones are affordable.
if you want to hear great in car audio look into old school A/D/S amps. very nice! the gray ones were the best and some were pretty small. i have several stashed in my garage for future use along with some old school x-tant amps with hand matched fets. those are larger but sound great too.
The Charlize will work right off the battery as well. Just the output is the problem. Not sure the front could do with just 15W unless the speakers are real efficient. Maybe I could use a Charlize for the mid/tweet and either a Amp9 for the mids and subs or two. I have to really look into it. Since its my wife's car I need this to be bomb proof. I also need to figure out how to set line levels so its locked in and doesn't get crazy when the music is up or down.
A long time ago A/D/S made some great stuff. I have some old Soundstream amps - 245 - that I use in my car. Its nice but not in the same playing field as these T-amps for incredible reproduction.
Here's a thread on using the Amp9 in a car. http://www.41hz.com/Forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1111&SearchTerms=car,use
A long time ago A/D/S made some great stuff. I have some old Soundstream amps - 245 - that I use in my car. Its nice but not in the same playing field as these T-amps for incredible reproduction.
Here's a thread on using the Amp9 in a car. http://www.41hz.com/Forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1111&SearchTerms=car,use
it sounds like you have a good plan. Charlize for the mid-tweeters and amp-9 for the mids and 6x9 subs because it is a 4 channel. it should work i hope. the audiocontrol 3xs has ajustable gain so that should help balance things out with the head unit and individual speakers. for the 6" mids you could play them down to their natural roll off point or you could add a passive crossover to cut off bass below 55hz or whatever you choose. the cut off between the mid and mid tweeter could be done on the 3xs at 24db's per octave and the same with the cutoff for the subs. you could overlap the subs x-over point with the front mids so you get more bass and cut them off below 40hz or so. the 3xs comes with a pfm filter set at 33hz but you could build or buy other frequencies. i like the idea of building the chips because you can use high quality resistors in the circuit.
i'm beggining to wonder how nice this all could sound myself???
makes me want to get back to upgrading my cars sounds too. i have waited too long.
i'm beggining to wonder how nice this all could sound myself???
makes me want to get back to upgrading my cars sounds too. i have waited too long.
Incredible advice. Thanks! I like some overlap on x-overs especially in cars. I'll work on tracking everything down. I'll definitely keep you updated. If you want to correspond off the board you can send a private message and I'll give you my email.
Hopefully this thread will help others. You've provided a lot of great advice.
Thanks again.
Hopefully this thread will help others. You've provided a lot of great advice.
Thanks again.
phrarod said:
i guess silicone rtv is not a good idea on paper cones?
see this link.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=81814
Thanks! I'll definitely do my homework on that.
I'm waning on the t-amp. When I did a repair to a tube pre-amp I hooked it up to the t-amp I have. I was going nuts due to incredible hum. I normally used litz braid or shielded cables and this time I used unshielded. Hum city. I asked the amp guys and they admitted that the t-amps generate a lot of RF. The customer I did the repair for has some big expensive digital amps and complained about noise after he got the repaired pre-amp. I explained and he duplicated the hum with other gear.
I'm thinking with all the computer based equipment in the Mini that maybe I should look for alternatives..
I'm waning on the t-amp. When I did a repair to a tube pre-amp I hooked it up to the t-amp I have. I was going nuts due to incredible hum. I normally used litz braid or shielded cables and this time I used unshielded. Hum city. I asked the amp guys and they admitted that the t-amps generate a lot of RF. The customer I did the repair for has some big expensive digital amps and complained about noise after he got the repaired pre-amp. I explained and he duplicated the hum with other gear.
I'm thinking with all the computer based equipment in the Mini that maybe I should look for alternatives..
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.