Hi guys,
I was thinking of making some home theater speakers using full range drivers. Between the kids and dogs I need to get rid of my towers. I was thinking of bookshelf speakers or small enough speakers that can be put on a shelf or hang on the wall. I want to create 5 of these and use a 6" or 8" driver. I would like these to sound big and have good off axis response. I know a lot to ask for but does anyone have any good plans? Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Also I do have two 10" subs to take care of the low frequencies.
Thank you.
John
I was thinking of making some home theater speakers using full range drivers. Between the kids and dogs I need to get rid of my towers. I was thinking of bookshelf speakers or small enough speakers that can be put on a shelf or hang on the wall. I want to create 5 of these and use a 6" or 8" driver. I would like these to sound big and have good off axis response. I know a lot to ask for but does anyone have any good plans? Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Also I do have two 10" subs to take care of the low frequencies.
Thank you.
John
Bit of an awkward set of requirements, that. Good off-axis performance isn't common for widebanders larger than 4in or so & reaching THX / Dolby levels even less so. The new Dayton 8in might do, but it's midband & HF could need some reigning in. The Alpair 12 might be another option; it should have better dispersion than the Dayton.
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Hi Scottmoose,
I just dont want them to sound small that is why I said 6" or 8". If you think a smaller full range would be better then let me know which one. I have not been here for a little while so I am not sure about the new drivers that have been developed. I have used fostex before and TB. I was just looking around at some commercial bookshelfs and I think I got sticker shocked. The range is $650 - $2000, and that is for a pair. I would not mind paying that if I knew I was not getting $100 worth of drivers. So I just want a speaker that will give me a great soundstage and not sound small. So I was thinking something like the ZU Audio line where they use a full range with a tweeter for the top end.
Just looking for good sound. Thanks for the help.
It's been well recieved by builders -here's one chap using a pair in HT. What is the Hi-Fi sound that I've read so much about?
This won't be a quite & simple post, but hopefully will provide some insight to my own particular approach regarding a small HT rig.
One of several projects that I'm juggling right now is somewhat similar to yours, although not with the constraints that as Scott notes could somewhat complicate the matter. That means that I am able to get away with floorstanders for the front L&R.
Previously I was using Fostex FE167E in the large floorstanding Fonken enclosures for 2 channel only, and without the support of woofer(s) (I can't quite get around calling a LF driver that rolls in between 60-100 a "sub"). But after breaking down and trying one of the newer generation of affordable HT receivers ( in this case Denon AVR1610), I realized a few things;
As much as I love the sound of the Fostex FE drivers with a low to moderate power tube amp for music only, or with the old Rotel RB850 when driven from the analog line out of the cable box, I found them too aggressively forward and rather fatiguing on the Denon, and even with the "benefit" of enhanced synthesized effects of the DSP they lacked the transparent acoustics and soundstage of well recorded music. Of course while it can certainly fill a much larger space than it occupies ( 320 sq ft) to more realistic levels than I need, this system won't be used for "serious" music, so the acoustic limitations of the electronics will be swamped by the primary visual sensory input.
While not as critical for non-processed 2 channel music only, for multi-channel movie etc soundtracks (even those synthesized ) the center channel speaker is the most important in the front row. Even though it will likely be bandwidth limited by programming, I'm convinced it should be as close to performance capabilities of the L&R mains as size restrictions of its physical location will allow. IMO it should use the same model driver(s) as the flanking mains.
For a modest size room, I think a small dimension but high performance full range driver such as the current Mark Audio models can answer a lot of the conflicting requirements of a multichannel system.
In my case the solution was Alpair7 for the front row - Pensils for the mains and small horizontally oriented version for the center (exact details / dimensions still underway).
Bass will be handled by a pair of triangular corner mounted dual woofer enclosures powered by separate amp. It took only a few minutes of listening to verify that multiple small woofers work much better in this system than a single. If budget and room layout would permit, I'd go for at least 4.
If you absolutely can't find room for a compact pair of floorstanders (when built with 3/4" material, the Pensils require .44 sq ft, and stand 37" tall, less any auxiliary base/plinth), then no doubt there are several good bookshelf designs that could work. The only other enclosure in which I've yet heard the A7 is the Mar-Ken, which is not an easy build and could be a bit large for a bookcase, for which the more conventionally shaped "GR" design might be better suited.
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/downloads/Classic-GR-dMar-Ken7-0v91-090810.pdf
Unless you're able to absolutely dedicate the room furnishing and layout for a "serious" surround system, regardless of its size, or that of the speakers etc., the surrounds can be the hardest to implement. That was certainly the case in previous incarnation of my room, and only my wife's recent concession of "it's your room now, honey" prompted me to pursue the issue. Even so, the shape of room, door openings and staircase can present interesting variables for the design calculus - so there's no such thing as size fits all.
One of several projects that I'm juggling right now is somewhat similar to yours, although not with the constraints that as Scott notes could somewhat complicate the matter. That means that I am able to get away with floorstanders for the front L&R.
Previously I was using Fostex FE167E in the large floorstanding Fonken enclosures for 2 channel only, and without the support of woofer(s) (I can't quite get around calling a LF driver that rolls in between 60-100 a "sub"). But after breaking down and trying one of the newer generation of affordable HT receivers ( in this case Denon AVR1610), I realized a few things;
As much as I love the sound of the Fostex FE drivers with a low to moderate power tube amp for music only, or with the old Rotel RB850 when driven from the analog line out of the cable box, I found them too aggressively forward and rather fatiguing on the Denon, and even with the "benefit" of enhanced synthesized effects of the DSP they lacked the transparent acoustics and soundstage of well recorded music. Of course while it can certainly fill a much larger space than it occupies ( 320 sq ft) to more realistic levels than I need, this system won't be used for "serious" music, so the acoustic limitations of the electronics will be swamped by the primary visual sensory input.
While not as critical for non-processed 2 channel music only, for multi-channel movie etc soundtracks (even those synthesized ) the center channel speaker is the most important in the front row. Even though it will likely be bandwidth limited by programming, I'm convinced it should be as close to performance capabilities of the L&R mains as size restrictions of its physical location will allow. IMO it should use the same model driver(s) as the flanking mains.
For a modest size room, I think a small dimension but high performance full range driver such as the current Mark Audio models can answer a lot of the conflicting requirements of a multichannel system.
In my case the solution was Alpair7 for the front row - Pensils for the mains and small horizontally oriented version for the center (exact details / dimensions still underway).
Bass will be handled by a pair of triangular corner mounted dual woofer enclosures powered by separate amp. It took only a few minutes of listening to verify that multiple small woofers work much better in this system than a single. If budget and room layout would permit, I'd go for at least 4.
If you absolutely can't find room for a compact pair of floorstanders (when built with 3/4" material, the Pensils require .44 sq ft, and stand 37" tall, less any auxiliary base/plinth), then no doubt there are several good bookshelf designs that could work. The only other enclosure in which I've yet heard the A7 is the Mar-Ken, which is not an easy build and could be a bit large for a bookcase, for which the more conventionally shaped "GR" design might be better suited.
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/downloads/Classic-GR-dMar-Ken7-0v91-090810.pdf
Unless you're able to absolutely dedicate the room furnishing and layout for a "serious" surround system, regardless of its size, or that of the speakers etc., the surrounds can be the hardest to implement. That was certainly the case in previous incarnation of my room, and only my wife's recent concession of "it's your room now, honey" prompted me to pursue the issue. Even so, the shape of room, door openings and staircase can present interesting variables for the design calculus - so there's no such thing as size fits all.
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Its not just the tipping. Its the moving, scratching, poking, and that damn coutch in front of one. Thats life, I just don't have enought room, or a good room to have a home theater, so trying to figure something to do with what I have.
I like building speakers, so just looking for somethig that will sound good and fit.
Chris,
That is what I want also, the same speaker for all channels. How long you think it will be before you have the plans for your center, I would like to see it? I really don't think I can fit the Pensils but I could do the GR bookshelfs. I just want them off the floor so no one touches them and there is no furniture in their way.
Thanks guys for all the help and ideas. I really appreceate it.
That is what I want also, the same speaker for all channels. How long you think it will be before you have the plans for your center, I would like to see it? I really don't think I can fit the Pensils but I could do the GR bookshelfs. I just want them off the floor so no one touches them and there is no furniture in their way.
Thanks guys for all the help and ideas. I really appreceate it.
Actually, it'll be Dave that sketches that up. My situation is complicated as there's a big window behind the TV that runs almost to the ceiling which limits the overall mounting height, and there's a coffee table between the front row and listening position - so there's little latitude for vertical position of centre enclosure, and I've yet to hear an inwall system that sounded decent.
Can you mount the center enclosure on the wall as well? As much as I hate to admit it, I can understand why interior designers like to hide speakers in wall. Of course they generally don't live or listen in the pretty spaces they like to create, and I've yet to hear an in-wall good for anything more than back-ground.
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Yes I can. But I do have a shelf above the TV. I was thinking of putting it up there standing vertically. I was also thinking of making shelves on the sides so the speakers are the same hight and also about the same distance from the wall. I might put a wedge under them so I can angel them down, aimed at the listening position.
That certainly sounds like a workable plan if I take it correctly that your intention is to mount all three at the same height.
I am a bit of a newbie with regards to multi-channel, and not having tried something like this would be a bit concerned about early first boundary reflections with all 3 mounted at what sounds like would be close to the ceiling. Soffit mounting is probably fine for surrounds (front height/side/rear etc), but I think might create an unnatural perspective for main program content.
More experienced practitioners of the mysterious arts of surround please feel free to correct/enlighten me on that 😀
I personally prefer the soundstage presentation with driver location(s) below the vertical center of a standard height room ( IOW at or below 1 meter) and slightly tilted up.
I designed my floorstanding tower speakers so their acoustical center on the vertical axis was about at the midpoint of the screen's height. I thought this would be convenient because I could place the side channels behind end tables and the like and still have them fire sound over them.
The speakers wont be at the ceiling. I think they will be about 2 feet to 2.5 feet from the ceiling, so close to 1 meter away. Also yes I want them to be at the same height. I was thinking this would make the transittion in sound better. I guess its one of those things I just have to build and try to see how it sounds. That is why I was trying to find a good speaker to build. If it does not work for HT then I could use it for music. Right now I am torn between making something or trying out the Magnepan wall mounted units.
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