KEF and Arcam/MF: cool. 🙂
Why are you all talking about the LS50 but no one is mentioning the R300? Shouldn't that one be a bit better, with deeper bass extension? Or is its construction shabbier?
On paper, GBP 2000 should be very roughly USD 3000. In reality, when buying consumer stuff, I have seen that what sells for UK 100 in the UK sells for USD 100 in the US.
The R300 sells here for around GBP1000 and although it has more bass than the LS it seems to be primarily aimed at home theatre users and hasn't got the " cult " following bestowed on the LS 50.
It's not as pretty either 🙂
It's not as pretty either 🙂
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£2000 are only $2475 at the moment, tendency falling.
US prices are usually without tax while UK prices normally include 20% VAT.
Focal, for sure. If I had to buy off the shelf Hi-Fi, it would be Focal.
I'm late to the party - mostly a KEF party - but Focal studio monitors would be my first choice. And they are powered, so no need for an amp. 🙂
Trouble is, speakers can be very taste driven. The Focal monitors do it for me, they sound real, refined, sweet and natural to me - and sound very neutral to a lot of people who mix on them for a living. But not everyone likes them, just the way KEF has never been anything special to me. It's hard to choose speakers for someone else. And picking them at a store is fraught with problems. What sounds "Amazing" in a demo, may be hard to live with at home in the long run.
I have not heard the Focal home bookshelf speakers, but the studio monitors are very, very enjoyable and Hi-Fi, in all the good ways.
I'm late to the party - mostly a KEF party - but Focal studio monitors would be my first choice. And they are powered, so no need for an amp. 🙂
Trouble is, speakers can be very taste driven. The Focal monitors do it for me, they sound real, refined, sweet and natural to me - and sound very neutral to a lot of people who mix on them for a living. But not everyone likes them, just the way KEF has never been anything special to me. It's hard to choose speakers for someone else. And picking them at a store is fraught with problems. What sounds "Amazing" in a demo, may be hard to live with at home in the long run.
I have not heard the Focal home bookshelf speakers, but the studio monitors are very, very enjoyable and Hi-Fi, in all the good ways.
+1 for studio monitors.
One less thing to go wrong, with having the amps built-in.
The good ones also have switches on the back for BSC, treble lift/attenuation etc, so will be easier to match to a given room compared to commercial HiFi + passive amp setups.
Chris
One less thing to go wrong, with having the amps built-in.
The good ones also have switches on the back for BSC, treble lift/attenuation etc, so will be easier to match to a given room compared to commercial HiFi + passive amp setups.
Chris
Yep, those sound damn good, especially up close. Not cheap - about $2700 for the pair in the USA. But no amp to buy, so you can fold that money into the speaker price. And they sound astonishing good in a 5.1 set up. Center channel, surrounds and subs could be added at any point.
Your source will need a volume control on its analog output. Otherwise you would have no volume control, because of no amp or preamp.
Your source will need a volume control on its analog output. Otherwise you would have no volume control, because of no amp or preamp.
Active monitors can be surprisingly good
Just as a point of reference and maybe an additional data point:
There is a line of QSC powered speakers (models K8, K10, K12) that have become an internet sensation among the home theater crowd. I was curious to hear for myself what they sound like in a domestic living room. A DJ friend let me borrow a pair of those QSC powered monitors (actually PA speakers, believe it or not) to listen to and compare to my various hi-fi stuff.
My setup is pretty good, I think, with a pair of Snell Type C (original) speakers with a push-pull 2A3 amp driving them. I suppose it's not the greatest system in the world, but it's pleased me for quite a while.
OK, so I listened to that pair of QSC K8, and what astonished me was that these PA(!) speakers, driven from a tube preamp with balanced outputs, sounded really quite good(!). I thought the built in amplifiers gave a bit of an 'electronic' sound, probably because they're class D. But the presentation of the speakers was extremely clean, with excellent tonal balance, and quite good stereo imaging, etc. And these are PA speakers!
My point is that computer-aided design has made it possible to make active-powered speakers that perform exceptionally well right out of the box, at what I consider to be bargain prices. For ease of use and bang for the buck, really, I don't think they can be beat. I remember back in the mid 1990's when I heard the first generation of popular active studio monitors (Genelec, Mackie HR824) and being quite impressed (although they did sound a bit 'hard' or 'electronic' compared to the 'audiophile' stuff I like). I'm sure today's higher-line ATC and Focal monitors will be more musical and enjoyable than those 1990's monitors (or the QSC PA speakers), which means they could be very, very good indeed.
So, I'd take a serious listen to the better active speakers out there. Add a nice music player, DAC and preamp/control unit with balanced outputs, and I'll bet that would make for a really high performance setup.
--
Just as a point of reference and maybe an additional data point:
There is a line of QSC powered speakers (models K8, K10, K12) that have become an internet sensation among the home theater crowd. I was curious to hear for myself what they sound like in a domestic living room. A DJ friend let me borrow a pair of those QSC powered monitors (actually PA speakers, believe it or not) to listen to and compare to my various hi-fi stuff.
My setup is pretty good, I think, with a pair of Snell Type C (original) speakers with a push-pull 2A3 amp driving them. I suppose it's not the greatest system in the world, but it's pleased me for quite a while.
OK, so I listened to that pair of QSC K8, and what astonished me was that these PA(!) speakers, driven from a tube preamp with balanced outputs, sounded really quite good(!). I thought the built in amplifiers gave a bit of an 'electronic' sound, probably because they're class D. But the presentation of the speakers was extremely clean, with excellent tonal balance, and quite good stereo imaging, etc. And these are PA speakers!
My point is that computer-aided design has made it possible to make active-powered speakers that perform exceptionally well right out of the box, at what I consider to be bargain prices. For ease of use and bang for the buck, really, I don't think they can be beat. I remember back in the mid 1990's when I heard the first generation of popular active studio monitors (Genelec, Mackie HR824) and being quite impressed (although they did sound a bit 'hard' or 'electronic' compared to the 'audiophile' stuff I like). I'm sure today's higher-line ATC and Focal monitors will be more musical and enjoyable than those 1990's monitors (or the QSC PA speakers), which means they could be very, very good indeed.
So, I'd take a serious listen to the better active speakers out there. Add a nice music player, DAC and preamp/control unit with balanced outputs, and I'll bet that would make for a really high performance setup.
--
I would be more than happy wth this http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/851/851n linked to the Focals listed above .
I'm pretty sure that if my friend does go in for active monitor speakers, she'll need a good preamp, just for input selection, volume control, and a handy remote. And if the speakers are going to accept only balanced input, the choice of preamp gets restricted to ones with balanced outputs. (Are there small, high quality unbalanced to balanced converters available?)
The bigger problem here may be finding dealers for studio monitors with listening rooms. If the entire retail eco-system is just geared to selling these to knowledgeable pro customers, it may be hard to find such dealers, don't you think?
Wow, this seems really cool. [emoji2]
The only question is if, someday, the user decides to add a source which has only analog outputs. At that time, I guess a preamp will need to be purchased. But the likelihood of such a development is low -- I doubt my friend will ever invest in a turntable. And if she does, then she is anyway too deep into music to quibble about a mere preamp. [emoji2]
If this is a first system, the source would likely be CD, or local files on a server. No need for a preamp in that case, direct from sound card or DAC to speakers. Be easy to set up for her...
Hi tcpip,
I'm going to recommend against powered speakers. You're locked into that speaker, and only one pair in case she wanted built in speakers in the kitchen (say). That's exactly what I did here, speakers for my wife and she loves them. A good preamp can easily cost the same money as an integrated amplifier anyway.
Strike 2 for the powered speaker. Vibration and often the ventilation isn't very good. I can't see her liking class D amplifiers if she likes music. They just aren't ready yet. I have repaired many powered speakers over the years. The most common failures are broken solder joints in the PCB to heavy components. I have seen quite a few cooked as well.
Since she is going to have a "thing" there with a volume control, may as well make it an amplifier or receiver. That way you retain the flexibility she might need as she becomes more in tune with her audio system.
Now for the real issue. The audio signal between the preamp and powered speaker is now a shielded cable. That audio signal can range from magnetic cartridge levels up to a few volts peak. You're going to hear any interference that is picked up. Depending on your area, this may or may not be a problem. I wouldn't want to try and hide a signal cable compared to a speaker cable. The signal cable is also more susceptible to damage compared to speaker wire.
-Chris
I'm going to recommend against powered speakers. You're locked into that speaker, and only one pair in case she wanted built in speakers in the kitchen (say). That's exactly what I did here, speakers for my wife and she loves them. A good preamp can easily cost the same money as an integrated amplifier anyway.
Strike 2 for the powered speaker. Vibration and often the ventilation isn't very good. I can't see her liking class D amplifiers if she likes music. They just aren't ready yet. I have repaired many powered speakers over the years. The most common failures are broken solder joints in the PCB to heavy components. I have seen quite a few cooked as well.
Since she is going to have a "thing" there with a volume control, may as well make it an amplifier or receiver. That way you retain the flexibility she might need as she becomes more in tune with her audio system.
Now for the real issue. The audio signal between the preamp and powered speaker is now a shielded cable. That audio signal can range from magnetic cartridge levels up to a few volts peak. You're going to hear any interference that is picked up. Depending on your area, this may or may not be a problem. I wouldn't want to try and hide a signal cable compared to a speaker cable. The signal cable is also more susceptible to damage compared to speaker wire.
-Chris
Cough, cough. I wasn't going to go there, because people look at you sideways when you praise a powered plastic P.A. speaker for its sound quality. But since you have plowed ahead, I'll follow in your wake. 😀
I'm a big fan of the QSC K8. IMO, it's the best of the line. They seem to have gotten the match between the horn and the 8" just right. If you need more thump, just buy a sub. The K8 is one of the rare speakers that has startled me into thinking someone was talking right beside me. That's happened with FM radio voices and also with a live mic. Not many speakers do that.
As you mention, advanced computer design has resulted in the amazingly good little powered PA speakers in the past few years. Even the new JBL and Mackie sound better than they should. The K8 are still my favorite.
@TCPIP I'm pretty sure that all of these powered monitors with XLR inputs will take an unbalanced signal. I've never seen one that would not, so it's not a worry. All that's needed is an RCA to XLR cable. Bluejeans should have them or can make them. Canare of Belden cable would be perfect for this. Getting an audition of the QSC K8 should be easy in Portland. Many music stores carry them. And if the return policy is good, they could be tried at home and returned if she doesn't like them. Just remember, they aren't pretty, 😉
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