Im trying to find help for a friend, he bought a pair of the cult classic yamaha NS1000M for alot of money (lovely monitors) but there is one major problem with them.
He put them on and noticed there is no bass he told me and thought maybe his 85w amp did not have enough power so i bought round my big 120w power amp and fired it all up....
No bass at all?
We took out the bass drivers to find the cone is stiff no movement at all...
We found the magnet had come off one and could be placed back on or we could even glue it back but we found with the magnet off the cone moves fines if pushed but when placed back on the cone is stiff again?
I have no idea why? the driver works we fed it a full range signal, there is no bass it sounds like a midrange obvoiusly because the cone can not move it can not produce bass.
Here are some pics.
The Back of the driver with the magnet off. The Cone moves with this off but as soon as I place the magnet back on the cone no longer moves.
The hole into which the magnet drops into.
Any idea what caused this or how to fix it?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
He put them on and noticed there is no bass he told me and thought maybe his 85w amp did not have enough power so i bought round my big 120w power amp and fired it all up....
No bass at all?
We took out the bass drivers to find the cone is stiff no movement at all...
We found the magnet had come off one and could be placed back on or we could even glue it back but we found with the magnet off the cone moves fines if pushed but when placed back on the cone is stiff again?
I have no idea why? the driver works we fed it a full range signal, there is no bass it sounds like a midrange obvoiusly because the cone can not move it can not produce bass.
Here are some pics.
The Back of the driver with the magnet off. The Cone moves with this off but as soon as I place the magnet back on the cone no longer moves.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The hole into which the magnet drops into.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Any idea what caused this or how to fix it?
stuck voice coil usually means it overheated. Yours probably expanded but did not actually burn completely open.
Don't know why the magnet is off. Maybe someone popped them off to explore.
Probably is not much you can do about it except to replace the drivers. Possibly someone who can recone could glue the magnet back on, then replace the entire cone/voice coil assembly.
Dave
Don't know why the magnet is off. Maybe someone popped them off to explore.
Probably is not much you can do about it except to replace the drivers. Possibly someone who can recone could glue the magnet back on, then replace the entire cone/voice coil assembly.
Dave
it sounds like a total rebuild maybe necessary
Corrosion or the loose magnet assembly in the voice coil and the magnet core assembly being lose caused it to become distorted. Since the voice coil shape is distorted causing it to rub very hard the maybe signs of arching and electrical arcing to happen in the barrel causing small mounds of metal to be welded to the barrel (explaining no movement when magnet core in place). Check for continuity and resistance if resistance is less than 1 ohms you have a (shorted voice)bad voice coil. 🙁 Check around for speaker repair places or ask if some one has a good recommendation of a newer version replacement
Corrosion or the loose magnet assembly in the voice coil and the magnet core assembly being lose caused it to become distorted. Since the voice coil shape is distorted causing it to rub very hard the maybe signs of arching and electrical arcing to happen in the barrel causing small mounds of metal to be welded to the barrel (explaining no movement when magnet core in place). Check for continuity and resistance if resistance is less than 1 ohms you have a (shorted voice)bad voice coil. 🙁 Check around for speaker repair places or ask if some one has a good recommendation of a newer version replacement
Reconing speakers in not a super big deal. There are lots of places that will do it.
I would just make one suggestion, if you plan to replace one woofer cone, it is far better to replace both woofer cones to keep the sound of the speakers balanced.
It will probably cost a little extra to have the magnet glued back on because they have to make sure the alignment is perfect, but it shouldn't be that much extra.
Which brings up another point, you can't just slap the magnet back on and expect it to be magically aligned with the voice coil. I suspect the placement has to be very precise. The clearance around the voice coil is about like a thick piece of paper on all sides.
What area of the country are you in, we may be able to help find a speaker re-coner in your area, though, you can probably find one in the yellow pages.
You could also contact Yamaha and see if they still have a direct replacement for the woofer, or maybe, that they can re-cone it with an exact replacement cone.
Steve/bluewizard
I would just make one suggestion, if you plan to replace one woofer cone, it is far better to replace both woofer cones to keep the sound of the speakers balanced.
It will probably cost a little extra to have the magnet glued back on because they have to make sure the alignment is perfect, but it shouldn't be that much extra.
Which brings up another point, you can't just slap the magnet back on and expect it to be magically aligned with the voice coil. I suspect the placement has to be very precise. The clearance around the voice coil is about like a thick piece of paper on all sides.
What area of the country are you in, we may be able to help find a speaker re-coner in your area, though, you can probably find one in the yellow pages.
You could also contact Yamaha and see if they still have a direct replacement for the woofer, or maybe, that they can re-cone it with an exact replacement cone.
Steve/bluewizard
Thanks for the help guys. It is not just one driver that is stuck stiff but both, my friend got them off ebay for £600 and the guy he got them off is blaming the shipping company.... I find this hard to believe being that both are like it.
Could storing it in a shed for a period of time do this, they came from scotland very cold weather.
Two replacments is £179 x2 for the same yamaha driver.
The issue is unresolved with the seller who asked my friend to pay via paypal but to send a gift payment to aviod fees? was the seller being dishonest and blaming the shipping company for what he knew was faulty goods, can this be caused by shipping? or is he trying to out my friend?
This is such a bummer as my friend borrowed the money to get these as he has allways wanted a pair for years, must say the midrange is the cleanest I have ever heard, I played a track I know and have listened to for years and heard things I have never heard withen seconds like feet tapping and clicking fingers was amazing, I see why there so sort after and exspensive.
Could storing it in a shed for a period of time do this, they came from scotland very cold weather.
Two replacments is £179 x2 for the same yamaha driver.
The issue is unresolved with the seller who asked my friend to pay via paypal but to send a gift payment to aviod fees? was the seller being dishonest and blaming the shipping company for what he knew was faulty goods, can this be caused by shipping? or is he trying to out my friend?
This is such a bummer as my friend borrowed the money to get these as he has allways wanted a pair for years, must say the midrange is the cleanest I have ever heard, I played a track I know and have listened to for years and heard things I have never heard withen seconds like feet tapping and clicking fingers was amazing, I see why there so sort after and exspensive.
definitely storing in a high humidity
will cause considerable damage
moisture will cause corrision, oxidation, and deposits plus maybe even weaken the cones
why do you think they are wrapped in plastic when new
I hope that the person did not state sold as is
for he can fight it other wise if the person stated that they were stored
will cause considerable damage
moisture will cause corrision, oxidation, and deposits plus maybe even weaken the cones
why do you think they are wrapped in plastic when new
I hope that the person did not state sold as is
for he can fight it other wise if the person stated that they were stored
Thanks, I edited the above with more infomation on the seller.
IMHO he was being dishonest and decided to blame the shipping company, I just dont see how both bass drivers seize in shipping?
IMHO he was being dishonest and decided to blame the shipping company, I just dont see how both bass drivers seize in shipping?
you may want to look for an alternative replace
there is probably a set of cone that could be used to replace the bad ones so you may want to put a post for alternative replacement suggestion sometimes they are way better for improvement made through the years.
there is probably a set of cone that could be used to replace the bad ones so you may want to put a post for alternative replacement suggestion sometimes they are way better for improvement made through the years.
Magnets falling off or shifting is invariably due to shock damage, such as being dropped. Were they shipped together? I suspect the seller is right about the courier company being at fault, but they could say they weren't packed correctly. Either way, it is down to the seller to sort out, (unless your friend paid for shipping).
Oh, and if that fails, try Wembley Loudspeakers for a repair quote, if they can't fix them, no-one can.
Oh, and if that fails, try Wembley Loudspeakers for a repair quote, if they can't fix them, no-one can.
Cheers I did think of that but Im not sure what my friend will do because there is still comunication going on with the seller, my friend wants to be paid for replacement driver or have a full refund.
The chasis would have to match but yer a alternative driver would be better as there is nothing special about the yamaha bass driver unlike the exspensive Beryllium domes, they seem exspensive replacments.
The chasis would have to match but yer a alternative driver would be better as there is nothing special about the yamaha bass driver unlike the exspensive Beryllium domes, they seem exspensive replacments.
Well, this seems to be the underlying question, is it better to flush £600 down the toilet, or is it better to spend £779 (£600 + £179) and end up with some great speakers.
I would rather spend £179 more, than throw £600 away.
Still, I can see how it would be infuriating.
Any slim chance you could make a claim against the shipping company? Probably not their fault, but if the seller insists there wasn't a problem when it was shipped, and there is a problem now, that only leaves the shipper.
If you want to find a re-coning company in the UK, check out AVForums.com . Not a lot of DIY there, but they are fairly knowledgeable on speakers in general and sources in the UK. Though again, check the phone book or do a web search.
Can we assume the £179 was for full driver replacements direct from Yamaha?
Steve/bluewizard
I would rather spend £179 more, than throw £600 away.
Still, I can see how it would be infuriating.
Any slim chance you could make a claim against the shipping company? Probably not their fault, but if the seller insists there wasn't a problem when it was shipped, and there is a problem now, that only leaves the shipper.
If you want to find a re-coning company in the UK, check out AVForums.com . Not a lot of DIY there, but they are fairly knowledgeable on speakers in general and sources in the UK. Though again, check the phone book or do a web search.
Can we assume the £179 was for full driver replacements direct from Yamaha?
Steve/bluewizard
pinkmouse said:
Yes shipped together, seller did suggest putting in a claim but that would take 12 weeks to resolve.
BlueWizard said:
My friend did actually say that as he regards these speakers are worth it but the £179 is not for a pair but EACH! the replacment comes from the UK I can not remember the website but it was suggested by yamaha UK via email.
BlueWizard said:
The rivets or mounting holes will do the realigning for you. It's not a variable like when reconing. Storing outside causes the breakdown of the glue. There may be complications in reconing as goodness knows what the gap is like now from oxidization. You may be best to get two new woofers and as suggested try and find some info on the old ones so you match them.
Pinkmouse is a speaker reconer so he knows.
Cal Weldon said:
Usually yes, but...
The problem is you need to remove the cone assembly to check the alignment as fractions of a millimetre can cause issues with small drivers like these. Unless you're very careful and very lucky, this will damage the suspension, so then you will likely need a recone kit. I don't think Yamaha do them for their smaller monitors, so you would need someone like Wembley to assemble you a set of parts, (surround, v/c, cone, spider etc.) that would be as close to the original parts as possible.
Well, I've done one or two...😉
pinkmouse said:
😀 Cheers Al.
My comment about the realigning was to indicate to Steve it's not the same as having to add shims as you do for a recone. The post, rivets, screw holes are there to do the aligning for you. I have a feeling these might be beyond resurrection, what U tink?
Cal Weldon said:
Indeed they are, but on the odd occasions where I've need to take off a (removable) magnet, you need to make a witness mark with a sharpie on the magnet and basket to make sure the magnet goes back the same way round. For drivers with glued on magnets that have fallen off or shifted, we usually throw them out, unless they're very rare it invariably isn't worth spending the time sorting them out.
Of course, for diy, this may not be a factor. 😉
Probably, but our members are nothing if not resourceful. 😀
Off subject here, but instead of throwing out a driver that the magnet has fallen off of, couldn't one use it to experiment with for making passive radiators?!😎
Peace,
Dave
Peace,
Dave
seller was probably telling the truth
Joined a minute ago after reading this thread. Needed to share my ecperience.----I hate to say it but the seller was probably telling the truth. I am a US military service member who was stationed in Italy and had the same problems for years. It repeatedly cost me a lot of money , time and frustration. The worse part is it continuously damaging speakers you care about! Very disheartening. I was mostly purchasing via ebay and shipped 100% through USPS as that was how mail was delivered at my location. I was completely baffled and at first accusatory towards the initial sellers. I was like "I'm only gone a year now, what has eBay come to?!" I checked with eminence speaker manufacture JBL and others to see if they had similar problems and if you reported in Asia but that was it. There were some suggestions possibly due to altitude or cabin storage tempson USPS Transatlantic flights that maybe that was causing motor magnet displacement between the plates. Unlike your issue the motor plates were still fixed but I can't speak for the centering of the magnet. That is my best guess. I can't think of the right word for it right now, but If the metal compressed enough from cold and the glue cracked as well, and the box was pushed around or rotated as part of the shipping the magnet could possibly fall off center. Sorry, that's all I've got. It was an infuriating problem, probably killed about 20 different subs. OH, IMPORTANT! It doesn't affect mid range drivers! The damage is definitely directly related to the size of the magnet! The bigger the magnet the more you're screwed! I bought from several different sellers over two years, some just to experiment with the problem and consist we had the same issues. ***Note my personal belongings that arrived by both were fine.*** Anyway, IT WAS LAME...
Joined a minute ago after reading this thread. Needed to share my ecperience.----I hate to say it but the seller was probably telling the truth. I am a US military service member who was stationed in Italy and had the same problems for years. It repeatedly cost me a lot of money , time and frustration. The worse part is it continuously damaging speakers you care about! Very disheartening. I was mostly purchasing via ebay and shipped 100% through USPS as that was how mail was delivered at my location. I was completely baffled and at first accusatory towards the initial sellers. I was like "I'm only gone a year now, what has eBay come to?!" I checked with eminence speaker manufacture JBL and others to see if they had similar problems and if you reported in Asia but that was it. There were some suggestions possibly due to altitude or cabin storage tempson USPS Transatlantic flights that maybe that was causing motor magnet displacement between the plates. Unlike your issue the motor plates were still fixed but I can't speak for the centering of the magnet. That is my best guess. I can't think of the right word for it right now, but If the metal compressed enough from cold and the glue cracked as well, and the box was pushed around or rotated as part of the shipping the magnet could possibly fall off center. Sorry, that's all I've got. It was an infuriating problem, probably killed about 20 different subs. OH, IMPORTANT! It doesn't affect mid range drivers! The damage is definitely directly related to the size of the magnet! The bigger the magnet the more you're screwed! I bought from several different sellers over two years, some just to experiment with the problem and consist we had the same issues. ***Note my personal belongings that arrived by both were fine.*** Anyway, IT WAS LAME...
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