After browsing the web for days on end reading everything i could find i have become completely lost on what i want or should do.
Basicly I want to build a sub with really good low response 20hz or so for reasonable money. I was looking at either a the 12" assassin or the Dayton 12 DCV. In either a closed or passive radiator design or how big either box should be?????
I have a Kenwood HT subwoofer with a 160w plate amp that I was going to rip out and use for the project or possibly going with a Cerwin Vega 200w amp i have seen on Ebay (65 bucks lol).
Part of the reason I am aproaching this is because i tested a Velodyne CHT 12 and found it boomy and not as tight as id like specialy after listening to U-571 the depth charge scenes. In turn i wasnt even thinking about buying a CHT 12 i was going to buy a Velodyne VRP 1200.
My 'media room' (lol) is 15x23 with 7' ceiling (drop ceiling in the basement) i have carpet flooring (no pad) and sheet rock walls.
I also have in my room a set of Kef Coda 90's a teatro center jbl north bridge sides with 8" and jbl book shelf in the back 6". along with two 8" powerd subs a onkyo (first suround sound set up) and a kenwood 8" the one i might cabbage.
I want a all around sub that will be capable of music and watching movies full tilt if this is possible with a budget of 200 to 300 bucks not including wood and such just electronics . (hey id like 2 matched also guess i should start with 1 tho)
i just need some good direction on whats the best way to go and not waste my money. After reading the last 5 pages of posts i have the upmost faith in the peeps in the forum to steer me in the rite direction.
Basicly I want to build a sub with really good low response 20hz or so for reasonable money. I was looking at either a the 12" assassin or the Dayton 12 DCV. In either a closed or passive radiator design or how big either box should be?????
I have a Kenwood HT subwoofer with a 160w plate amp that I was going to rip out and use for the project or possibly going with a Cerwin Vega 200w amp i have seen on Ebay (65 bucks lol).
Part of the reason I am aproaching this is because i tested a Velodyne CHT 12 and found it boomy and not as tight as id like specialy after listening to U-571 the depth charge scenes. In turn i wasnt even thinking about buying a CHT 12 i was going to buy a Velodyne VRP 1200.
My 'media room' (lol) is 15x23 with 7' ceiling (drop ceiling in the basement) i have carpet flooring (no pad) and sheet rock walls.
I also have in my room a set of Kef Coda 90's a teatro center jbl north bridge sides with 8" and jbl book shelf in the back 6". along with two 8" powerd subs a onkyo (first suround sound set up) and a kenwood 8" the one i might cabbage.
I want a all around sub that will be capable of music and watching movies full tilt if this is possible with a budget of 200 to 300 bucks not including wood and such just electronics . (hey id like 2 matched also guess i should start with 1 tho)
i just need some good direction on whats the best way to go and not waste my money. After reading the last 5 pages of posts i have the upmost faith in the peeps in the forum to steer me in the rite direction.
Something to keep in mind is that room acoustics play a very large role in how a sub sounds in a given room (and in different locations in that given room)
It's possible that the Velodyne CHT 12 may have been located in a spot that excited a room mode and caused the boomy response you heard.
This is something that will affect a diy design just as much as a commercial sub.
It's possible that the Velodyne CHT 12 may have been located in a spot that excited a room mode and caused the boomy response you heard.
This is something that will affect a diy design just as much as a commercial sub.
i have read some about placement of the subs i just dont have the ability to move my subs very far from left or right of the front of my room. I wish i could afford to treat my room for accoustics but thats another nightmare of spending money and not knowing what may be in my best intrest or not. I do have a basic bass trap made outa stacked insulation rolls coverd in burlap. Just a cheap way of tyring to keep it in line a bit. I have everything set width wise so im on the cross way not the long way.
And i should give the CHT props it does sound good for alot of applications i just feel that the low lows didnt satisfy. Guess I really wana DYI a sub and have acess to all the wood working tools i could ever use for this project i just dont know what is best for my situation. Or what the pros, like your selves, would do. 😉
And i should give the CHT props it does sound good for alot of applications i just feel that the low lows didnt satisfy. Guess I really wana DYI a sub and have acess to all the wood working tools i could ever use for this project i just dont know what is best for my situation. Or what the pros, like your selves, would do. 😉
bostonswoop,
My first DIY endeavor was a 85L ported sub using the Dayton DVC 12. It sounded good but not as good as I expected from what I had read. The Shiva was all the rage at the time but when I was ready to order no shivas, so I went with the dayton which was supposed to be a good alternative. Well I used the 85L vented shiva cabinet plans as I wasn't confident enough to design my own. Well when I was finished it sounded good but not as good as I had hoped for. My build wasn't fueled by need, just wanted to build one after all I had read about. It didn't stand up well to my Mirage BPS-400 dual 12" 400Wrms sub. The dayton driver seemed to bottom out fairly easy. So when the Atlas's went on sale I scooped up a 12 and 2 15" I put the 12 in the box the DVC was in and I finally go the results I expected. Since they clained it was a"bottomless" design I threw everything I could think of at it U-571 in DTS at reference level the Haunting in DTS etc. the usual torture tracks and it never burped farted flopped or anything. Sounded great,even my gf said she couldn't believe that the driver would make that big a difference.
I used a rythmikaudio 250W plate amp. no boost and the rumble filter is set at 12hz unless you ask for them to change it for you ($5) charge. This may have been the problem I had with the DVC. With the Ascendant driver it wasn't a problem at all.
I haven't heard the new Assassin 12 but Chad @ ascendant says it is a good drop in for the Atlas 12 which I have heard. I would definately recommend the AA sub over the Dayton DVC which I also have. It now sits in the Atlas 12's shipping box.
This is a quote from another forum(carstereo.org) made by Chad @ AA "A couple of quick things to mention: The Assassin is essentially bottomless. The voice coil would have to swing well past the gap to hit the back plate. I have yet to get one of them to bottom out while testing it. The suspension won't let it get that far anyway."
Right now there is only a $5.00 differance in price between the DVC and the Assassin(before shipping). In my opinion it would be $5.00 well spent.
I calibrate my system with a RS SPL meter and re-did so whenever I switched subs.
Yikes,sorry for the long post.
My first DIY endeavor was a 85L ported sub using the Dayton DVC 12. It sounded good but not as good as I expected from what I had read. The Shiva was all the rage at the time but when I was ready to order no shivas, so I went with the dayton which was supposed to be a good alternative. Well I used the 85L vented shiva cabinet plans as I wasn't confident enough to design my own. Well when I was finished it sounded good but not as good as I had hoped for. My build wasn't fueled by need, just wanted to build one after all I had read about. It didn't stand up well to my Mirage BPS-400 dual 12" 400Wrms sub. The dayton driver seemed to bottom out fairly easy. So when the Atlas's went on sale I scooped up a 12 and 2 15" I put the 12 in the box the DVC was in and I finally go the results I expected. Since they clained it was a"bottomless" design I threw everything I could think of at it U-571 in DTS at reference level the Haunting in DTS etc. the usual torture tracks and it never burped farted flopped or anything. Sounded great,even my gf said she couldn't believe that the driver would make that big a difference.
I used a rythmikaudio 250W plate amp. no boost and the rumble filter is set at 12hz unless you ask for them to change it for you ($5) charge. This may have been the problem I had with the DVC. With the Ascendant driver it wasn't a problem at all.
I haven't heard the new Assassin 12 but Chad @ ascendant says it is a good drop in for the Atlas 12 which I have heard. I would definately recommend the AA sub over the Dayton DVC which I also have. It now sits in the Atlas 12's shipping box.
This is a quote from another forum(carstereo.org) made by Chad @ AA "A couple of quick things to mention: The Assassin is essentially bottomless. The voice coil would have to swing well past the gap to hit the back plate. I have yet to get one of them to bottom out while testing it. The suspension won't let it get that far anyway."
Right now there is only a $5.00 differance in price between the DVC and the Assassin(before shipping). In my opinion it would be $5.00 well spent.
I calibrate my system with a RS SPL meter and re-did so whenever I switched subs.
Yikes,sorry for the long post.
thats great info i really appreciate you giving me so much. I also didnt realize those Rythmik 250 Amps were so cheap. (is it worth getting the 5 dollar mod im not even sure what that does)
So in general an Assassin 12" with the Rythmik 250 Amp would be a good start combo and is the best enclosure the 85L?
Or is there a good solid design for a passive radiator that would work good for this? Are passive radiator sub boxs even worth the extra money? Or (lol or or or) would i be better suited with a ported design. I wasnt sure if a radiator would give me the tighter response i was looking for or not??
really appreciate the help and i kinda hope this first experiance will lead to more builds of more speakers. would like a pair of Dipoles for the rear speakers in my suround sound hmmmm.....
So in general an Assassin 12" with the Rythmik 250 Amp would be a good start combo and is the best enclosure the 85L?
Or is there a good solid design for a passive radiator that would work good for this? Are passive radiator sub boxs even worth the extra money? Or (lol or or or) would i be better suited with a ported design. I wasnt sure if a radiator would give me the tighter response i was looking for or not??
really appreciate the help and i kinda hope this first experiance will lead to more builds of more speakers. would like a pair of Dipoles for the rear speakers in my suround sound hmmmm.....
Well the rumble filter is there to help keep your sub from bottoming out. If you know how to solder you can always add it later there is directions on rythmik audios website on how to do it. I run mine without it and haven't had any problems. I would give Chad @ AA a call and ask if he recommends using one with the Assassin12.
As far as the "best" enclosure size that is some what up to you. I believe Chad recommends a 3.5 cu.ft. tuned to 20Hz. You could go bigger or smaller thats up to you and how much output you want. I have the driver Assassin 12 loaded into unibox at home I'll play around with it tonight and see what it looks like.
As far as the "best" enclosure size that is some what up to you. I believe Chad recommends a 3.5 cu.ft. tuned to 20Hz. You could go bigger or smaller thats up to you and how much output you want. I have the driver Assassin 12 loaded into unibox at home I'll play around with it tonight and see what it looks like.
So sounds like a good plan for the box how long and what diameter does the port tube have to be for somthing like this in a 3.5 cube box? 20hz is where id like to be for sure im just a little intimdated by the exact tunning that i dont completely understand. Oh and do you have to stuff the box at all with poly fill in a design like this?
Cant waite to start this project just want to have my ducks in a row so to speak.
Thanks for helpin a noob
Cant waite to start this project just want to have my ducks in a row so to speak.
Thanks for helpin a noob
bostonswoop,
You should give Chad a call and see if he has box plans. He provided me nice plans for the Atlas drivers.
He would be able to tell you port diameter and length also. I would assume he would say 1, 4" precision port. Unibox is showing a port length of 20.5" which is longer than the standard precision port(18"). The 3.5cu.ft. (99L) does look real good in unibox. Overexcusion isn't a issue until around 16Hz. It just goes over 16mm at that point. This may not even be a issue. I am sure Chad has tested the Assassin in this alignment. I can send you a email of how the box models if you would like. You can get a "idea" of the output, the software doesn't factor in room gain and other room specific issues.
You should give Chad a call and see if he has box plans. He provided me nice plans for the Atlas drivers.
He would be able to tell you port diameter and length also. I would assume he would say 1, 4" precision port. Unibox is showing a port length of 20.5" which is longer than the standard precision port(18"). The 3.5cu.ft. (99L) does look real good in unibox. Overexcusion isn't a issue until around 16Hz. It just goes over 16mm at that point. This may not even be a issue. I am sure Chad has tested the Assassin in this alignment. I can send you a email of how the box models if you would like. You can get a "idea" of the output, the software doesn't factor in room gain and other room specific issues.
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Here is the 3.0 cu.ft./85L with one 4" PP 18" long 23Hz. Still pretty nice and a little smaller. I have cabinet plans in a pdf if you want them. One that is 3.0cu.ft. and one that is 4.5cu.ft.According to the plans this would be a 20Hz tuning for the Atlas 12. You can see the smaller box has slightly less output below 20Hz. Which if Chad recommends a 20Hz rumble filter that wont matter much.
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bostonswoop,
The descrepencies I have found shouldn't be anything to worry about. I started reading up on things on other forums. I found a post from a guy who I know has built way more subwoofers than I probably ever will. He said the tuning of the enclosure is more enclosure based than driver based. In other words if you have a 20Hz tuned canbinet it will remain a 20Hz tuned cabinet even if you switch out the driver.
Have you decided on a budget?
I think the Assassin 12,port,MDF and Amp will run you around $300.00
The descrepencies I have found shouldn't be anything to worry about. I started reading up on things on other forums. I found a post from a guy who I know has built way more subwoofers than I probably ever will. He said the tuning of the enclosure is more enclosure based than driver based. In other words if you have a 20Hz tuned canbinet it will remain a 20Hz tuned cabinet even if you switch out the driver.
Have you decided on a budget?
I think the Assassin 12,port,MDF and Amp will run you around $300.00
That be great email me what you have if you dont mind thats great. I should call chad tho and see what he has. Does he have an email? cuse i dont mind emailing him either?
What version would you build a 3 or 3.5? Just outa curiosity what does it model with the 4.5?
oh and would it pay to get the 350w rythmik amp its technicly only 40 bucks more. (lol its just tax money err somthing) 😉
It also seems to have some other features that look appealing, as if i know what diffrence they would make
So dont put your self out but if you want send me anything ya want my email is
bostonswoop@hotmail.com
once again moocho appreciated
What version would you build a 3 or 3.5? Just outa curiosity what does it model with the 4.5?
oh and would it pay to get the 350w rythmik amp its technicly only 40 bucks more. (lol its just tax money err somthing) 😉
It also seems to have some other features that look appealing, as if i know what diffrence they would make
So dont put your self out but if you want send me anything ya want my email is
bostonswoop@hotmail.com
once again moocho appreciated
wow those plans are excellent that you sent me ! The 4.5 box is really impressive. Think Chad has a 3.5 plan also?
So as far as stuffing a ported box i take it isnt that important maybe minor ammount on the sides?
Oh and can any of these plans be used in a down firing style ? or is that not a good idea? I was thinking of building and making almost a fake exterior look instead of paint or veneer old box style.
Is there any compensation needed for the amp in the box ? I didnt notice any consideration for an amp in those designs? or does it make up such little space it makes no diffrence?
Also you said the box tune is semi universal lets say similar sub to similar sub so the tube lenghts on those are accurate i take it?
My budget is around 300 bucks for sure, id like to keep cost in line in case i wana make another one. lol cuse if 1 is good 2 is better eh!
good show mark your a credit to the forum with all this great info!
So as far as stuffing a ported box i take it isnt that important maybe minor ammount on the sides?
Oh and can any of these plans be used in a down firing style ? or is that not a good idea? I was thinking of building and making almost a fake exterior look instead of paint or veneer old box style.
Is there any compensation needed for the amp in the box ? I didnt notice any consideration for an amp in those designs? or does it make up such little space it makes no diffrence?
Also you said the box tune is semi universal lets say similar sub to similar sub so the tube lenghts on those are accurate i take it?
My budget is around 300 bucks for sure, id like to keep cost in line in case i wana make another one. lol cuse if 1 is good 2 is better eh!
good show mark your a credit to the forum with all this great info!
Mark is right, whatever driver you use, if you tune a 100 liters box at 20 Hz, it will stay tuned at 20 Hz.
But, some drivers will peak at that frequency if they are designed to play in a smaller box than 100 liters, some others will dip well before reaching tuning because they are made to play in a bigger box than 100 liters.
That's why you must use similar drivers, or you better design a bigger or smaller box tuned at 20 Hz.
But, some drivers will peak at that frequency if they are designed to play in a smaller box than 100 liters, some others will dip well before reaching tuning because they are made to play in a bigger box than 100 liters.
That's why you must use similar drivers, or you better design a bigger or smaller box tuned at 20 Hz.
bostonswoop,
Thanks for the kind words. I am glad I could help out.
I would say you can use either of those cabinet plans I sent you. I got them from Chad about 6 months ago. They are for the Atlas 12 but as Chad stated the Assassin 12 is a great drop in for it. I say go for it.
I doubt downfiring is a problem the designs state to add 4" legs if you are planning on a downfiring set up.
Both design use full length Precision ports so all you have to do is glue them together and put them in.
You can put some "eggcrate" foam on the walls if you want,I don't know that you will be able to tell whether you use it or not. It's up to you. Usually I don't put anything in ported boxes.
The amp won't take up enough room to worry about.
I dont know if Chad will have 3.5 box plans yet or not. I know he has been super busy getting his new products ready.
Good luck and keep us up to date.
Thanks for the kind words. I am glad I could help out.
I would say you can use either of those cabinet plans I sent you. I got them from Chad about 6 months ago. They are for the Atlas 12 but as Chad stated the Assassin 12 is a great drop in for it. I say go for it.
I doubt downfiring is a problem the designs state to add 4" legs if you are planning on a downfiring set up.
Both design use full length Precision ports so all you have to do is glue them together and put them in.
You can put some "eggcrate" foam on the walls if you want,I don't know that you will be able to tell whether you use it or not. It's up to you. Usually I don't put anything in ported boxes.
The amp won't take up enough room to worry about.
I dont know if Chad will have 3.5 box plans yet or not. I know he has been super busy getting his new products ready.
Good luck and keep us up to date.
one last thing (sure). The port length on these is 18" but port tubes at parts express only go to 17"? Should i just go with PVC and adapt a bell type horn? or is there another company out there that makes longer ones?
wow. I just talked Chad from Ascendent Audio what a wealth of imformation! In a five min convo I got more then i could have ever imagined. Good people makes me feel really comfortable about buying the assassin from them.
It was like talking to some one with a passion for somthing that he cant waite to share if you have the time and he was workin alone in the shop!
He also explaind to me the 17" length tube with a total length of 18" with the ends durr.....
It was like talking to some one with a passion for somthing that he cant waite to share if you have the time and he was workin alone in the shop!
He also explaind to me the 17" length tube with a total length of 18" with the ends durr.....
In reality, the tube at partsexpress are 18 inches long.
Since they are flared, they are "acoustically" only 17 inches long.
Center tube is 12 inches long, each flare is 3 inches long.
12+3+3 = 18 - 1 inch for the acoustical correction factor = 17 inches.
Since they are flared, they are "acoustically" only 17 inches long.
Center tube is 12 inches long, each flare is 3 inches long.
12+3+3 = 18 - 1 inch for the acoustical correction factor = 17 inches.
bostonswoop,
Yeah Chad is a really cool guy. I dropped like 360.00 in drivers in one shot and wasn't worried one bit after talking to him. I wasn't disappointed with the products either. I would be stunned if the new drivers aren't every bit as good or better than there previous ones.
So what was his recommendation for box size? Just curious.
I take it you ordered your sub? Did he spill any info on his up coming products?
Yeah Chad is a really cool guy. I dropped like 360.00 in drivers in one shot and wasn't worried one bit after talking to him. I wasn't disappointed with the products either. I would be stunned if the new drivers aren't every bit as good or better than there previous ones.
So what was his recommendation for box size? Just curious.
I take it you ordered your sub? Did he spill any info on his up coming products?
He told me they workin on a driver for a comercial sub that was going to be killer and i beleive it was based on the Assassin. He also said that the Assassin exceeded all there expectations and that the 3l cube was the best bet thats what he used and test it with and that he got 108DB from it. If i had had more time I probly could have got more info but i was at work at the (lol workin really hard) and he was alone in the shop.
I didnt order my sub yet but I probly will end of this up coming week along with all the other parts and start workin on the box. If possible ill see what i can do to post a pic with the out come.
Anyone have any suggestions on Grill frames for fabric style?
I like the look of an open sub but i have 4 small children sooooo. and after reading about drivier sag i decided not to do down firing, scared me a bit that and it seems like all the companys that build subs dont really fire em down anymore.
I didnt order my sub yet but I probly will end of this up coming week along with all the other parts and start workin on the box. If possible ill see what i can do to post a pic with the out come.
Anyone have any suggestions on Grill frames for fabric style?
I like the look of an open sub but i have 4 small children sooooo. and after reading about drivier sag i decided not to do down firing, scared me a bit that and it seems like all the companys that build subs dont really fire em down anymore.
I always plan on cutting a piece of mdf that is the same size as the front baffle. Then putting a "track" on the backside and using that ribbed rubber cord for putting in new screens. wrapping the grill cloth around and pressing the cord in to hold it.
However I usually am too lazy to do it 😀 I only have one kid so it isn't really a problem for me. That is what I always plan anyway kinda like this(see attachment). I think using the magnetic grill guides would be cool but I don't know if I am that good at wood working to get them right where I want them. They would probably end up a "little off" like myself.
However I usually am too lazy to do it 😀 I only have one kid so it isn't really a problem for me. That is what I always plan anyway kinda like this(see attachment). I think using the magnetic grill guides would be cool but I don't know if I am that good at wood working to get them right where I want them. They would probably end up a "little off" like myself.
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