Hi,
I'm new here and also new to PA systems. Please help me in achieving a good set up for my new PA system which I intend to use indoor and outdoor. Basically, I need a step by step procedure on how to set up the values in driverack pa+ and the amp. Here are my equipment's:
1- Crown XTi2002 power amp (1) - to drive in stereo mode a set of speakers
2- Cerwin Vega CV2800 power amp (1) - to drive in bridge mode one custom sub
3- Wharfedale EVPX 215 Speakers (1 pair) - 500watts RMS at 4ohms
4- Custom Sub - 1200 watts RMS at 8ohms
5- DBx Driverack PA+
6- DBx 231s Equalizer
I have successfully wired all of above except the 231s equalizer and just set up everything by ear. Here are the issues I want clarity and guidance:
1- I have no RTA mic and when I set up the driverack, I was only up to loading the new preset and not able to balance the sytem with pink noise, RTA mic, etc. How do I do this without RTA mic and since both my tops and sub are not in the preset of driverack?
2- I want to hook up my 231s equalizer. What will be your recommendation as I know there are built in EQ's in driverack and the crown amp? Should I just turn off the EQ's in both amp and driverack and use my 231s?
3- I don't have any idea on BW or LR settings and gains in cross over feature setting of driverack.
4- Also don't have any idea on how to set the compressor and limiter features of the driverack.
5- I was told to hook up only to High and Low from driverack. How can I use the mid? Should I buy an additional amp and pair of speakers to do this? If so, what will be the recommended speaker assuming I will just get another XTi2002? I mean the power and frequency range. Or, is there any work around to have this feature with my current equipment's?
6- How do I optimize the powers of my system without clipping or blowing any speakers or amps? I mean from input (mixer) to output which I believe should have relationship on how to use the compressor and limiter functions of driverack.
Sorry for these very basic questions to most of you hear and please bear with me this time for my ignorance.
Thanks for your help.
Rey
I'm new here and also new to PA systems. Please help me in achieving a good set up for my new PA system which I intend to use indoor and outdoor. Basically, I need a step by step procedure on how to set up the values in driverack pa+ and the amp. Here are my equipment's:
1- Crown XTi2002 power amp (1) - to drive in stereo mode a set of speakers
2- Cerwin Vega CV2800 power amp (1) - to drive in bridge mode one custom sub
3- Wharfedale EVPX 215 Speakers (1 pair) - 500watts RMS at 4ohms
4- Custom Sub - 1200 watts RMS at 8ohms
5- DBx Driverack PA+
6- DBx 231s Equalizer
I have successfully wired all of above except the 231s equalizer and just set up everything by ear. Here are the issues I want clarity and guidance:
1- I have no RTA mic and when I set up the driverack, I was only up to loading the new preset and not able to balance the sytem with pink noise, RTA mic, etc. How do I do this without RTA mic and since both my tops and sub are not in the preset of driverack?
2- I want to hook up my 231s equalizer. What will be your recommendation as I know there are built in EQ's in driverack and the crown amp? Should I just turn off the EQ's in both amp and driverack and use my 231s?
3- I don't have any idea on BW or LR settings and gains in cross over feature setting of driverack.
4- Also don't have any idea on how to set the compressor and limiter features of the driverack.
5- I was told to hook up only to High and Low from driverack. How can I use the mid? Should I buy an additional amp and pair of speakers to do this? If so, what will be the recommended speaker assuming I will just get another XTi2002? I mean the power and frequency range. Or, is there any work around to have this feature with my current equipment's?
6- How do I optimize the powers of my system without clipping or blowing any speakers or amps? I mean from input (mixer) to output which I believe should have relationship on how to use the compressor and limiter functions of driverack.
Sorry for these very basic questions to most of you hear and please bear with me this time for my ignorance.
Thanks for your help.
Rey
Well, hi, I'm no expert in PA - sincerely, I think that "less is better" so for Hi-fi listening the less stages the signal passes thru, it gets less damaged. But here we've got double AD/DA conversion ( if the signal is "analog" ) and the so-called "complete control" may be too much confusing. The speakers are heavy duty 2 X 15 " cones with a tweeter.
The midrange produced by them might need some equalization... The DBx Driverack PA+ would provide filtering & EQ for the subwoofer - try to set it at the lowest frequency ( e.g. 30 Hz !! ).
For the new speakers, a smaller bass section is welcomed . Only one 15" ! And a 3rd way is welcomed too. Like an 8" mid-bass that can reach 3 kHz .
Since you've got the DBx Driverack PA+, you can just buy the bare drivers and apply them the correct BW they require, without messing your mind with passive crossovers.
For the other questions, aren't there ( or on the Net ) some books that explain the use of such tools ( compressors, limiters, digital crossovers ) ?
The midrange produced by them might need some equalization... The DBx Driverack PA+ would provide filtering & EQ for the subwoofer - try to set it at the lowest frequency ( e.g. 30 Hz !! ).
For the new speakers, a smaller bass section is welcomed . Only one 15" ! And a 3rd way is welcomed too. Like an 8" mid-bass that can reach 3 kHz .
Since you've got the DBx Driverack PA+, you can just buy the bare drivers and apply them the correct BW they require, without messing your mind with passive crossovers.
For the other questions, aren't there ( or on the Net ) some books that explain the use of such tools ( compressors, limiters, digital crossovers ) ?
You got more equipment than you need really, I'd suggest you return the 231 EQ as it's redundant twice over.. both the XTi amp and the DRPA have EQ already, and you could better use the test mic. Basic settings for the Driverack are 2-way with a mono summed sub, use LR24 crossover filters at 80hz between the 215's and the sub and set a 35hz low cut filter on the sub channel. When you get the mic take the system and set it up outdoors and away from buildings and run the auto EQ, save that as your base setting for future use.
There is no point trying to make your system 3way it just adds a bunch more complexity for no gains.
What is the design of this custom sub and what driver do you have? Just because it's rated 1200w does not mean it'll take that much in every type of system or with all types of music.
There is no point trying to make your system 3way it just adds a bunch more complexity for no gains.
What is the design of this custom sub and what driver do you have? Just because it's rated 1200w does not mean it'll take that much in every type of system or with all types of music.
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It could make sense to keep the 231 for temporary tone tweaks, where you don't want to mess up the Driverack settings.
Thank you all for your replies. My custom sub is to be driven by Cerwin Vega CV2800 amp at bridge mode. Can somebody please teach me how to set up the compressor, limiter and optimize the gains of my system? Also, if I use the 231s EQ, should I flatten all built in EQ's in driverack and XTi2002?
We know that, what design is the sub and what driver is in it?
Need to know more about you sub before suggesting gains and limiter settings.
Yes flatten all other EQs.
Sorry. I have limited info of my custom sub. It's a "Live" sub with rated frequency at 35Hz to 1500Hz. I have doubts on the 1.5kHz frequency (maybe its just 150 Hz) as nothing is marked on the sub and just got this info from the dealer. It's with an 18" cone. Hope this helps. Thanks
And also, are these the proper sequence of setting up after I wired all the equipment?
1- Load first the system using driverack, i.e., identify main speakers and sub.
2- Set up cross over
3- Optimize gains from mixer console to amps. Understand I need to use Pink Noise to do this. Where can I download appropriate pink noise.
4- Set up the compressor and limiter
5- Do equalization, set up delays, subsynth, etc.
6- Enjoy your music
Thanks.
1- Load first the system using driverack, i.e., identify main speakers and sub.
2- Set up cross over
3- Optimize gains from mixer console to amps. Understand I need to use Pink Noise to do this. Where can I download appropriate pink noise.
4- Set up the compressor and limiter
5- Do equalization, set up delays, subsynth, etc.
6- Enjoy your music
Thanks.
Try at the download section @ Claudio Negro's home page, how to project and test a loudspeaker using Speaker Workshop for the PN, though I think a manual (by ear) setting
of the system may be used because it's a very basic setting - well, it depends on the sources and the distances and the ambient...
About the 18", that's the limit -1k5 Hz- when used as a woofer...then the scale is logarithmic 🙄
of the system may be used because it's a very basic setting - well, it depends on the sources and the distances and the ambient...
About the 18", that's the limit -1k5 Hz- when used as a woofer...then the scale is logarithmic 🙄
Hi Guys,
Can you please provide me answers to my earlier queries? I am requesting for detailed procedures on how to optimize my system, etc. Thanks.
Can you please provide me answers to my earlier queries? I am requesting for detailed procedures on how to optimize my system, etc. Thanks.
have you gotten as far as programing a basic configuration? knowing the edit and save functions of the drive rack is step one long before specific settings come into play.
is the rig set up? completely patched? all speaker cables connected? all eq settings zero'ed (to start) gains at nominal etc...
no rta mic? look into a panasonic electret condenser mic capsule PM something or other (sorry model number escapes me at the moment) but there inexpensive and reasonably flat.
is the rig set up? completely patched? all speaker cables connected? all eq settings zero'ed (to start) gains at nominal etc...
no rta mic? look into a panasonic electret condenser mic capsule PM something or other (sorry model number escapes me at the moment) but there inexpensive and reasonably flat.
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Hi Turk, yes I have wired everything correctly and did the basic configuration of my tops and sub and saved it using the driverack.
I'd put it in this order..
1- Load the system using driverack, i.e., identify main speakers and sub.
2- Set up cross over and delays
3- Optimize gains from mixer console to amps.
4- Set equalization
5- Listen to some music
6- Tweak EQs some more
7- Setup limiters
Optimizing gains is best done with the speakers disconnected from the amps. You start at your mixer input trims and work your way all the way to the amps bringing the signal level up to 0db on the meters(control positions are irrelevant), the last step at the amps is to bring them up to the threshold of clipping.
Then you return the main output control on the mixer to 0 and reconnect the speakers, all other controls are left alone. With that done you play some music at moderate levels, balance subs to mains and apply any EQ you feel necessary. If you have a measurement mic this is when you measure the speakers. Then listen to a variety of music and tweak EQs some more. After this is done revisit amplifier gains to make sure you're not over driving anything. Finally when you think you have everything dialed in you set limiters to keep the amp from clipping, but since you have gains optimized you know if you drive the mixer beyond 0dB the amps are out of gas so you don't even need to look at them.
1- Load the system using driverack, i.e., identify main speakers and sub.
2- Set up cross over and delays
3- Optimize gains from mixer console to amps.
4- Set equalization
5- Listen to some music
6- Tweak EQs some more
7- Setup limiters
Optimizing gains is best done with the speakers disconnected from the amps. You start at your mixer input trims and work your way all the way to the amps bringing the signal level up to 0db on the meters(control positions are irrelevant), the last step at the amps is to bring them up to the threshold of clipping.
Then you return the main output control on the mixer to 0 and reconnect the speakers, all other controls are left alone. With that done you play some music at moderate levels, balance subs to mains and apply any EQ you feel necessary. If you have a measurement mic this is when you measure the speakers. Then listen to a variety of music and tweak EQs some more. After this is done revisit amplifier gains to make sure you're not over driving anything. Finally when you think you have everything dialed in you set limiters to keep the amp from clipping, but since you have gains optimized you know if you drive the mixer beyond 0dB the amps are out of gas so you don't even need to look at them.
conanski's recommendations are spot on.
does the PA+ version of the driverack not have a pink noise source?
i'm interested in your choice of crossover configuration and settings i.e. type, slope, freq, etc. could you supply a brief description.
with the Crown amp the Driverack both having similar functions such as crossover and limiting ensure settings aren't conflicting (i would operate the amp as a basic amp and allow the driverack control)
does the PA+ version of the driverack not have a pink noise source?
i'm interested in your choice of crossover configuration and settings i.e. type, slope, freq, etc. could you supply a brief description.
with the Crown amp the Driverack both having similar functions such as crossover and limiting ensure settings aren't conflicting (i would operate the amp as a basic amp and allow the driverack control)
Hi All,
Sorry for my late inputs as I was on holidays. I disabled all DSP's in Crown Amp and just use it as basic Amp. My settings for Driverack are as follows :
1- Gain at +18dB for sub and high
2- LR24 for sub and high
3- Cross Over for Sub at 35 Hz
4- Cross Over for High at 40 Hz
5- Compressor/Limiter : +12dB, Over Easy 1
I'm not able to balance the system via RTA mic as I don't have one and just skipped this portion of driverack set up. Again, my sub is custom made with 35Hz lowest freq while my High is Wharfedale with 40Hz.
Thanks,
Rey
Sorry for my late inputs as I was on holidays. I disabled all DSP's in Crown Amp and just use it as basic Amp. My settings for Driverack are as follows :
1- Gain at +18dB for sub and high
2- LR24 for sub and high
3- Cross Over for Sub at 35 Hz
4- Cross Over for High at 40 Hz
5- Compressor/Limiter : +12dB, Over Easy 1
I'm not able to balance the system via RTA mic as I don't have one and just skipped this portion of driverack set up. Again, my sub is custom made with 35Hz lowest freq while my High is Wharfedale with 40Hz.
Thanks,
Rey
ok a few things strike me as odd with these settings : -first why are the gain's set so high?
-why are the crossover points so low?
(and a 5 hz bandwidth?)
-and why would the compressor threshold point be 6db below signal drive setting?
-are any high pass settings engaged?
once we sort this out we might be be in the ballpark then we can start to tweak.
-why are the crossover points so low?
(and a 5 hz bandwidth?)
-and why would the compressor threshold point be 6db below signal drive setting?
-are any high pass settings engaged?
once we sort this out we might be be in the ballpark then we can start to tweak.
Yeah that's all wrong. Set the sub channel low cut filter at about 30hz BW 24db/oct, use a 80-90hz crossover between sub and 215's with LR24 filters, you want the sub to carry all the low frequency content. Gain setting will depend upon how the device is scaled, I'm used to the Behringer DCX which is scaled in dBFS so unity is at -18db, I gather the DRPA is different so target 0dB on the meters across the board as a starting point.
Hi Turk, Conanski,
Thanks for your replies.
1- The cross over freq's described above are the minimum i set for sub and high's. My sub have a 35Hz-1.5kHz while high's at 40Hz-20kHz. Please advise what setting should I do in driverack for both.
2- As i understand it, the gains can actually be set to max at 20dB before I optimize the gains from mixer control to both amps (drivers for high's and sub). I ran a PN in the mixer by setting mixer level control to 0dB which is just below clipping point when mixer gain knob is at max, without EQ. At this setting, my amps started clipping a little over mid point. Then i tweaked the gains from comp/limiter mode of driverack and ended up at 12dB threshold and overeasy 1. I noticed that if i select other than overeasy 1, the output meter in driverack will lit up yellow & red (intermittently).
3- Since my lowest sub freq is at 35Hz, do you really want me to set it at 30Hz?
4- Do you mean I need to set my lowest freq for high's between 80-90Hz even though its lowest is at 40Hz?
Thanks,
Rey
Thanks for your replies.
1- The cross over freq's described above are the minimum i set for sub and high's. My sub have a 35Hz-1.5kHz while high's at 40Hz-20kHz. Please advise what setting should I do in driverack for both.
2- As i understand it, the gains can actually be set to max at 20dB before I optimize the gains from mixer control to both amps (drivers for high's and sub). I ran a PN in the mixer by setting mixer level control to 0dB which is just below clipping point when mixer gain knob is at max, without EQ. At this setting, my amps started clipping a little over mid point. Then i tweaked the gains from comp/limiter mode of driverack and ended up at 12dB threshold and overeasy 1. I noticed that if i select other than overeasy 1, the output meter in driverack will lit up yellow & red (intermittently).
3- Since my lowest sub freq is at 35Hz, do you really want me to set it at 30Hz?
4- Do you mean I need to set my lowest freq for high's between 80-90Hz even though its lowest is at 40Hz?
Thanks,
Rey
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