Hi all,
I'm wanting some new speakers for my main living area in my new house.
The room is about 60m2. I will be building a Full Marty sub with an 18" UM18-22 to handle the low end.
I was going to buy some speakers and auditioned some towers on the weekend, then i auditioned a set of B&W 706 S3 2 way bookshelf speakers.
I was very impressed with them. So it got me thinking, if im going to spend $3200 AUD on a set of bookshelf speakers, surely i can DIY something myself.
I was originally a bit daunted by the thought of a 3 way tower build, but if i have a large sub handling base, a bookshelf should be a bit easier to achieve.
So firstly a couple of questions.
In such a big room, would a bookshelf keep up? I hear a lot about needing towers to fill the room etc. Does this apply in this situation?
If I'm building a 2 way bookshelf, I can focus more of the budget on high end drivers, surely i can build something to compete with the B&W?
I've built a couple of speakers in the past, have all the CNC/woodworking gear/Umik-1, so i'm well setup to actually do the building, i'll just have a lot to learn about crossovers etc in the proces, which i'm looking forward to.
I can get access to SB acoustic stuff easily and was thinking of a beryllium tweeter and a satori midwoofer. But i don't want to get ahead of myself yet.
What are your thoughts? Is a high end Bookshelf what i need?
Thanks in advance!
I'm wanting some new speakers for my main living area in my new house.
The room is about 60m2. I will be building a Full Marty sub with an 18" UM18-22 to handle the low end.
I was going to buy some speakers and auditioned some towers on the weekend, then i auditioned a set of B&W 706 S3 2 way bookshelf speakers.
I was very impressed with them. So it got me thinking, if im going to spend $3200 AUD on a set of bookshelf speakers, surely i can DIY something myself.
I was originally a bit daunted by the thought of a 3 way tower build, but if i have a large sub handling base, a bookshelf should be a bit easier to achieve.
So firstly a couple of questions.
In such a big room, would a bookshelf keep up? I hear a lot about needing towers to fill the room etc. Does this apply in this situation?
If I'm building a 2 way bookshelf, I can focus more of the budget on high end drivers, surely i can build something to compete with the B&W?
I've built a couple of speakers in the past, have all the CNC/woodworking gear/Umik-1, so i'm well setup to actually do the building, i'll just have a lot to learn about crossovers etc in the proces, which i'm looking forward to.
I can get access to SB acoustic stuff easily and was thinking of a beryllium tweeter and a satori midwoofer. But i don't want to get ahead of myself yet.
What are your thoughts? Is a high end Bookshelf what i need?
Thanks in advance!
neo004,
60m2 looks more welcoming to a tower speakers 🙂, but it is possible that bookshelf with subs will also work.
If I may ask, what type of genres do you prefer and what are volumes do you play at?
What city in Australia are you in?
One design you can consider is the Elsinore by Joe Rasmussen - here's a link to one for the more recent builds done by an Aussie member of the forum:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/the-elsinore-project-thread.97043/post-7466753
Maybe you can find someone in your neck of the woods who has built them and can arrange for an audition?
Of course there are other designs and good book shelf designs too.
60m2 looks more welcoming to a tower speakers 🙂, but it is possible that bookshelf with subs will also work.
If I may ask, what type of genres do you prefer and what are volumes do you play at?
What city in Australia are you in?
One design you can consider is the Elsinore by Joe Rasmussen - here's a link to one for the more recent builds done by an Aussie member of the forum:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/the-elsinore-project-thread.97043/post-7466753
Maybe you can find someone in your neck of the woods who has built them and can arrange for an audition?
Of course there are other designs and good book shelf designs too.
Hi Zman,
I certainly don't mind building floor standers, it would look better and suit the room.
I have just been paranoid about crossovers, i either need a published design or to ask a million questions.
I did think about active crossovers, but something like the Hypex adds about $1500 before i even get started.
I'm a bit of a top 40 person. I like acoustic/vocal stuff. Really enjoy the crisp clear highs.
I do like to crank up the music when i'm having a session, not sure about DB though.
I'm in Southwest Victoria, 3 hours from Melbourne. Probably a long shot finding anything local to me.
I certainly don't mind building floor standers, it would look better and suit the room.
I have just been paranoid about crossovers, i either need a published design or to ask a million questions.
I did think about active crossovers, but something like the Hypex adds about $1500 before i even get started.
I'm a bit of a top 40 person. I like acoustic/vocal stuff. Really enjoy the crisp clear highs.
I do like to crank up the music when i'm having a session, not sure about DB though.
I'm in Southwest Victoria, 3 hours from Melbourne. Probably a long shot finding anything local to me.
Think about how much you will actually spend. Then maybe you’re not far away from a nice active system.
$1500 will get you a pair of Hypex FA253’s which would be suitable for your room.
Learning filter design in HFD will be challenging but offers a way to experiment that passive desgns just can’t match. You can achieve an excellent passive crossover but in the end you may find money spent can also be significant.
Sorry ,
I’m obviously a fan of active systems.
So many ways to go
Head over to Hifihaven.org
Look through their forum for Meadowlark Audio and see what you think
Good luck
$1500 will get you a pair of Hypex FA253’s which would be suitable for your room.
Learning filter design in HFD will be challenging but offers a way to experiment that passive desgns just can’t match. You can achieve an excellent passive crossover but in the end you may find money spent can also be significant.
Sorry ,
I’m obviously a fan of active systems.
So many ways to go
Head over to Hifihaven.org
Look through their forum for Meadowlark Audio and see what you think
Good luck
Now your making me think about going active again lol.
A pair for FA253s landed here would be about $2000 aud.
If i go active, is the next step basically working out which speakers play nicely together with regards to crossover points, then model cabinets to suit?
A pair for FA253s landed here would be about $2000 aud.
If i go active, is the next step basically working out which speakers play nicely together with regards to crossover points, then model cabinets to suit?
The thing about active is if you can get the filters right the driver’s don’t have to be real high end. Put another way, You can get a lot out of more affordable driver’s.
Which will allow you spend more on the amps. SB acoustics Satori line while very nice is very pricey. The difference is whether you are willing to put in the time to learn filter design. There are many designs online that you can check out.
Take a look at what Troels has to offer, just to see what you might like. Again, look at Meadowlark. There are many others I’m sure.
How long are you willing to wait for all this to come together?
Which will allow you spend more on the amps. SB acoustics Satori line while very nice is very pricey. The difference is whether you are willing to put in the time to learn filter design. There are many designs online that you can check out.
Take a look at what Troels has to offer, just to see what you might like. Again, look at Meadowlark. There are many others I’m sure.
How long are you willing to wait for all this to come together?
neo004,
Speakers like the Elsinore or Curt Campbell's Uluwatu (another floor-stander with SB Acoustic drivers) are fully published designs; for new builders/DIYers who want to get something up and running relatively quick, a published design is the easiest path to take. Designing your own XO (and practically your own speaker) will involve more work (measurements, XO simulations) and time.
Are you good with soldering?
Speakers like the Elsinore or Curt Campbell's Uluwatu (another floor-stander with SB Acoustic drivers) are fully published designs; for new builders/DIYers who want to get something up and running relatively quick, a published design is the easiest path to take. Designing your own XO (and practically your own speaker) will involve more work (measurements, XO simulations) and time.
Are you good with soldering?
Jcris,
Thanks for the info.
I'm very much a tinkerer, so happy to spend however much time is required to get a handle on whats needed for the project.
Happy to learn how to make crossovers, I've done a bit of reading but haven't committed yet as I was undecided between passive/active.
I had chosen a Troell's design late last year but the crossover kits were crazy expensive and that's when I thought maybe I should go active, then things can be reused on a different build if I changed my mind.
I hadn't considered open baffles, no particular reason.
The perry marshall ones are certainly something else.
Zman
I had seen those designs but hadn't thought much about them, I guess I had been looking for some newer documented builds.
Very proficient with soldering so no worries there.
I guess in all of this i keep coming back to the fact that if I'm happy to spend 3-4k on a set of floor standers from a retail store, yes i might spend similar doing it myself, but the quality of the drivers etc should get me a much better end result?
Thanks for the info.
I'm very much a tinkerer, so happy to spend however much time is required to get a handle on whats needed for the project.
Happy to learn how to make crossovers, I've done a bit of reading but haven't committed yet as I was undecided between passive/active.
I had chosen a Troell's design late last year but the crossover kits were crazy expensive and that's when I thought maybe I should go active, then things can be reused on a different build if I changed my mind.
I hadn't considered open baffles, no particular reason.
The perry marshall ones are certainly something else.
Zman
I had seen those designs but hadn't thought much about them, I guess I had been looking for some newer documented builds.
Very proficient with soldering so no worries there.
I guess in all of this i keep coming back to the fact that if I'm happy to spend 3-4k on a set of floor standers from a retail store, yes i might spend similar doing it myself, but the quality of the drivers etc should get me a much better end result?
I agree what you end up with can potentially be a great value.
I’m listening to a pair of bookshelf speakers right now. Meadowlark Blackbirds running Hypex FA 122 amps. Much smaller space but excellent sound quality imho
I’m listening to a pair of bookshelf speakers right now. Meadowlark Blackbirds running Hypex FA 122 amps. Much smaller space but excellent sound quality imho
3 to 4k retail?
That’s a real competitive market but diy will certainly net you more. Perhaps much more. Passive or active.
Ok I’ll leave you alone now
Best
That’s a real competitive market but diy will certainly net you more. Perhaps much more. Passive or active.
Ok I’ll leave you alone now
Best
So 60m2?………..my first recommendation?……The bass foundation. Your 1st move which is the foundation is the absolute worst choice. Big rooms with one bass/sub source will have nothing but a rollercoaster of nulls and peaks with long time delays and smearing.
Take your investment in a single large UM18 and break it up into 4 seperate 10-12” single driver subwoofers. You won‘t need foundational DSP but it could improve things if you’re willing to put in the effort with measuring and tweaking. The 4 subs will effectively load the room and the individual larger modes will break themselves up into tiny ripples giving you an overall flat response with +/- 2b variations along with extremely low HD if you provide enough amplifier current.
What you do from 80hz on up is now a much more flexible decision……but lest not forget this is a BIG space so you’re gonna need some power handling capability. Typical 180mm woofer two ways aren‘t going to cut it…..power compression will quickly take over and waste your efforts. Horn loaded compression drivers mated to 10-12” midwoofers is where you wanna be here. Consider the added efficiency too…..these won’t need much current to get to 110db dynamic peaks.
With your budget, this would be best served with a DIY effort, especially where the subs are concerned…..often the absolute best place to save the most $$$. My suggested SWARM approach with 12” drivers and a stereo pro power amplifier will run around $1300 US.
The classic 1” compression driver/12” midbass is a DIY icon with lots of available designs to work from starting with the massive Econowave project. Largely started before the availability of cheap DSP, with todays 2x4 units……I’d say DSP all the way.
Take your investment in a single large UM18 and break it up into 4 seperate 10-12” single driver subwoofers. You won‘t need foundational DSP but it could improve things if you’re willing to put in the effort with measuring and tweaking. The 4 subs will effectively load the room and the individual larger modes will break themselves up into tiny ripples giving you an overall flat response with +/- 2b variations along with extremely low HD if you provide enough amplifier current.
What you do from 80hz on up is now a much more flexible decision……but lest not forget this is a BIG space so you’re gonna need some power handling capability. Typical 180mm woofer two ways aren‘t going to cut it…..power compression will quickly take over and waste your efforts. Horn loaded compression drivers mated to 10-12” midwoofers is where you wanna be here. Consider the added efficiency too…..these won’t need much current to get to 110db dynamic peaks.
With your budget, this would be best served with a DIY effort, especially where the subs are concerned…..often the absolute best place to save the most $$$. My suggested SWARM approach with 12” drivers and a stereo pro power amplifier will run around $1300 US.
The classic 1” compression driver/12” midbass is a DIY icon with lots of available designs to work from starting with the massive Econowave project. Largely started before the availability of cheap DSP, with todays 2x4 units……I’d say DSP all the way.
It’s just 2 cap’s, 2 resistor’s, and 2 inductor’s - and with that pdf-paper could be modeled (though yeah, not exactly “plug-and-play”).
l’m guessing electrically (not acoustic) it’s 2nd order filters for each driver with reverse phase for the tweeter. There is another thread guessing as well, plus there are a few people out there that have built it and could probably tell you exactly what the values are as well as the wiring. Jeff passed from COVID 😢 and Meniscus doesn’t exist so there is no reason not to provide the information.