Recently bought an apartment and started planning the renovation/compartmentalization process. Naturally I want to plan electrical and it got me thinking that I want to also build myself a speaker kit.
Spent a week browsing for DIY builds a proven design instead trying to design one myself and I'm more undecided then when I started. I need recommendations of which direction I should go in.
The space is 8.1x4.5x2.6m (uploaded a pic of the space). Also there is a greenhouse (4.5x1.5x2.5m) attached to the room. Total room is around 40sqm. I don't want to change the room aragment. I want to be able to sit on the couch and see the greenhouse, also the sun sets in the window and I want to be abel to see it. Windows behind speakers sucks but there has to be a workaround. Turning the couch 90' will just split the room in two which is not an option or create a 8m long tube. I want it to be a social space not a purpose built listening room.
I have access to an industrial CNC, so woodworking ain't a problem. Most of the furniture in the house will be designed and built by me using plywood. I love the teardrop shape of B&W 805D
Initially liked the Amiga, but then I read for the room size they might need subs. So I looked into building two subs (12 or 15). Then looked at so MTM builds (ER18MTM Ribbon, Helix, Apollo etc) and pairing them with subs using miniDSP Dirac to correct room acoustics. The longer I searched the further down the rabbit hole I went. Now my head hurts and Im extremely undecided.
Was really hopping y'all fine people here point me in the right direction, and justify why it's the right one for the space.
Spent a week browsing for DIY builds a proven design instead trying to design one myself and I'm more undecided then when I started. I need recommendations of which direction I should go in.
The space is 8.1x4.5x2.6m (uploaded a pic of the space). Also there is a greenhouse (4.5x1.5x2.5m) attached to the room. Total room is around 40sqm. I don't want to change the room aragment. I want to be able to sit on the couch and see the greenhouse, also the sun sets in the window and I want to be abel to see it. Windows behind speakers sucks but there has to be a workaround. Turning the couch 90' will just split the room in two which is not an option or create a 8m long tube. I want it to be a social space not a purpose built listening room.
I have access to an industrial CNC, so woodworking ain't a problem. Most of the furniture in the house will be designed and built by me using plywood. I love the teardrop shape of B&W 805D
Initially liked the Amiga, but then I read for the room size they might need subs. So I looked into building two subs (12 or 15). Then looked at so MTM builds (ER18MTM Ribbon, Helix, Apollo etc) and pairing them with subs using miniDSP Dirac to correct room acoustics. The longer I searched the further down the rabbit hole I went. Now my head hurts and Im extremely undecided.
Was really hopping y'all fine people here point me in the right direction, and justify why it's the right one for the space.
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why should a pair of floorstand speakers need subs? I guess their purpose is the 'maximization' of floor space for rear volume of the speaker in order to have 'great bass'.
On the other side, speakers set on the floor dissipate a lot of 'good vibrations' trough the floor, so it might be true, somehow...
Also the room acoustics corrected by some form of algorithm seems strange...you change the content of the disc, somehow...
So you have the right to be undecided, and moreover, the room is small! Just like mine (which is 3.5 m high, that gives a little more volume), the game cannot start without the right positioning of the speakers, and you and your guests, of course.
The number of proven designs has exploded in the last 20 years, there is now a huge choice of proven designs, making for a rich set of choices. Not being able to hear them (in most cases) makes it harder to choose, as you are now relying on what a large number of people are saying, the lot coming from often quite different POV and lots of complicating factors (room, taste, other kit) all of which influence the suggestions.
We all have our favourites.
Your room is fairly large, what kind of budget? Taste? Associated gear?
I would personally recommend a single driver FR or a WAW.
dave
We all have our favourites.
Your room is fairly large, what kind of budget? Taste? Associated gear?
I would personally recommend a single driver FR or a WAW.
dave
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Hence why I am undecided. I was browsing a reddit thread where they where discussing the Amiga kit by Paul Carmondy for a 6x6m room and a bunch of people where saying there that the room size would stress the speakers if you wanted to go loud when playing (over 95db) and that adding subs would reduce the strain on the woofers by digitally having the crossover higher then f3.
Also the minidsp Dirac would be used to adjust the delay of the sub to the rest of the speaker. I wouldn't use it for anything over over low frequencies. Maybe correct some odd reflections here and there.
Budget wise is a tough question. Around 1k euro for the floor standing speakers total for the pair, if I make them active. The subs I can add later, but would be around 400-500 per sub. The dirac and dsp aspect is very intriguing to me as its more of a social space rather then a listening room. Would be nice to have control over it.
All my current gear I will be selling as its 10 years old and I got in uni. Monitor Audio BX-2, Marantz PM6005 and a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon. I would like to slowly sell and build replacements as I go. I'm an industrial designer professionally and will want to make each piece unique in appearance.
As for musical taste, its as broud as it gets. From jazz to old school rap to rock to house to cuban music. I have a collection of about 150 vinyl that is slowly growing. I like to hear detail in my music, experience each instrument as the artist inteanded, I also love the warm feeling low freaquencys give when they envelope you.
Heres a pic of an aestheitic im going to go for (mainly the plywood) the speakers. And much later down the line. Im going to buy a used hi-end turntable, gut it and make something like this:
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The table is pretty, the Magico speakers use translam which is a huge waste and only really useful for doing complex shapes.
All too often XOs suck the detail out of the loudspeaker.
For your budget, and with the idea that woofers will be added later, Alpair 10.2 MAOP in Frugel-Horn XL or suitable Pensil would be a good choice — the extra bass added later would increase potential levels and improve the mid-top (assume a HP filter on the mains). As tpo levels, 95 dB average is very loiud and will damage your hearing if exposed to got too long.
dave
All too often XOs suck the detail out of the loudspeaker.
For your budget, and with the idea that woofers will be added later, Alpair 10.2 MAOP in Frugel-Horn XL or suitable Pensil would be a good choice — the extra bass added later would increase potential levels and improve the mid-top (assume a HP filter on the mains). As tpo levels, 95 dB average is very loiud and will damage your hearing if exposed to got too long.
dave
I want to play around with complex rounded shapes. Apart from the aesthetics of bubbly shapes which are really appealing to me, the rounded baffle should help with the diffraction. Translam would give me that look, I can also program la cnc with a nice ball nose and get the final bubble shape as close as possible, then just sand at them a day
. At then end of the day they will be a design piece in my living room, so waste is not a problem.As for the full range experience, I've done a bit of research and the opinions are mixed. From what I understand FR horns are good certain types of music but not all, some genres will sound epic and some will leave to be desired. Im looking for the jack of all trades in the living room. I want to listen to them quite when im alone, I want to blast them when I have guests. I want to listen to them when im off axis working at my desk, and from what i read FRs dont do off-axis as well as a multi way speaker.
Im looking for a multi way speaker to give me this. Any recomandations in this area?
The sharpest edge on those is the one you'd rather be the most round. In such a case, the rounded back will be just for looks.
This is not helpful advice. A sub gives you the freedom to put it where it works with your room.
That is something can be said of any-ways. Both FR and multiways have made great strides, and TL & horn design has significantly progressed in the last 2 decades.
I’d have top know what horn and what driver (and the amp driving them) before i could comment. Lots of poor performing FR horns out there.
dave
Agreed. You can't judge it unless it's been done right, since even simple EQ can make a good speaker sound bad. The fact that D00mm mentioned
My advice would be to keep it simpler than that if expecting results.. unless OP is ready to design a horn and to take the time to take the journey and learn a few things the hard way.
..hints at the possibility that these opinions are based on models the listeners had no control of. I've heard some bad ones out in the wild, but I'd use my own experiences to judge.
My advice would be to keep it simpler than that if expecting results.. unless OP is ready to design a horn and to take the time to take the journey and learn a few things the hard way.
This is the thread that gave me this idea was here. And then I searched a bit more and got the same impression, I'd rather be inclined to experiment with horns for desktop speakers something near field where im always in the cone, but for living room speakers where the space is a rectangle i want a bit more spread
I don't doubt that technology and manufacturing processes have gotten better over time, but from what I gathered on the off-axis problem. FR drivers, especially the ones on the larger side, at higher frequencies encounter beaning due to the larger cone. If the listener is always in the same place then it ain't a problem. Dedicated dome speakers have a better off-axis experience. I want that freedom. When I upgrade my pc monitors, I a consider the horn route.
In the floor plan the speakers will most likely be in the green position, very central. Red on the right side will interfere with greenhouse access.
I don't yet have the patience to get into design, or to invest in a new skill. Taking a proven design with stable parameters is easier for me to re-engineer in fusion360 for aesthetic purposes, hence my desire for staying clear from horns. I could get crazy with the shape while keeping the internal volume and port the same, then applying some extra features to help with detraction and calling it a day. Crossover will also stay as the designer intended, only if I add subs in the future will I add a minidsp and turn them into 3-way speakers, maybe do some room correction if needed.
I don't doubt that technology and manufacturing processes have gotten better over time, but from what I gathered on the off-axis problem. FR drivers, especially the ones on the larger side, at higher frequencies encounter beaning due to the larger cone. If the listener is always in the same place then it ain't a problem. Dedicated dome speakers have a better off-axis experience. I want that freedom. When I upgrade my pc monitors, I a consider the horn route.
In the floor plan the speakers will most likely be in the green position, very central. Red on the right side will interfere with greenhouse access.