Need advice from the anolog gurus
I finally have a decent turntable, cart, and preamp and am loving the sweet sound and more pronounced imaging of the LPs.
But it seems, even when I buy "still sealed" records, I still get a few pops and snaps. I have 20 year old LPs that are much less pop free than some of the 'still sealed' I've recently bought.
I'm going to give reel to reel a shot. I don't want to get into the argument about which is better. I would just like some advise.
I would like your opinions about :
Why some new records have pops
What would be a good sounding reliable tape deck (used)
PS I'm too poor to be in this hobby! 😀
Thanks!
I finally have a decent turntable, cart, and preamp and am loving the sweet sound and more pronounced imaging of the LPs.
But it seems, even when I buy "still sealed" records, I still get a few pops and snaps. I have 20 year old LPs that are much less pop free than some of the 'still sealed' I've recently bought.
I'm going to give reel to reel a shot. I don't want to get into the argument about which is better. I would just like some advise.
I would like your opinions about :
Why some new records have pops
What would be a good sounding reliable tape deck (used)
PS I'm too poor to be in this hobby! 😀
Thanks!
Often I find the source of pops/snaps is static. Do you live inj a dry climate?
Try brushing with a carbon fiber brush before playing to see if that helps.
No clue on the tapedeck. May want to ask that over on audiokarma.org if your interested in something vintage.
Evan
Try brushing with a carbon fiber brush before playing to see if that helps.
No clue on the tapedeck. May want to ask that over on audiokarma.org if your interested in something vintage.
Evan
Man, I live in Georgia. It's never dry here! 
Is it the actual staic charge that causes clicks and pops or the fact that the static atracts dirt from the air?
Is it the actual staic charge that causes clicks and pops or the fact that the static atracts dirt from the air?
Unlikely it's static. Give the records a thorough cleaning to remove all the paper dust and mold release, then see what happens.
yeah in GA thats probabally not the case.
Winter in wisconsin is terrible for static. I learned to live with it. Just had to use the brush alot.
Evan
Winter in wisconsin is terrible for static. I learned to live with it. Just had to use the brush alot.
Evan
Being the foremost vinyl guru on the block I feel compelled to expound greatly on the subject of POPs.
(1) sealed records are the worst of all gambles. They probably aren't new. When the CD came out in the early 80s record stores had deadlines to return the piles of "returns" in the back room. Either the record companies rewrapped them and sent them out again or the local merchant had a shrink-wrapper do it.
Record companies kept rewrapping records with minor defects until they fell into the hands of a person who did't really care. If you took a warped record back to the store, or one with a factory scratch it eventually made it back on someone's shelf.
The rewraps at the end of the LP era are often store demos. I bought a stack of sealed European classicals with official manuf. stickers on them. They had fingerprints, scratches, and scribbles around the center hole. I suspect the companies sent merchants packages of offical sealed-in-Europe stickers.
(2) Microorganisms eat the oils in vinyl. Also, after records are pressed they are often placed on carts and parked in hallways for days. They have a strong static charge with attracts dust when people walk by. New records are usually filthy and also after 20 years have considerable cultures of microbes. The cultures dry out in to very large pops.
(3) Sealed records also suffer from shelf warps which are buckles at the edge of the record from sitting in a hot warehouse in the same position on a shelf for years. This same sort of buckle warp can occur when a factory worker gets rough when twisting slag off of the edge (so I have read).
At least 50% of all the sealed records I have purchased have been defects, including bad pressings where the silvering is defective and they have tremendous noise.
A lot of defects occur due to the fact that multiple presses are all powered by the same source of steam. By chance, when all of them need steam at the same time the pressure is too low for a decent pressing. They also get in a hurry and don't let the vinyl cool before bringing up the stamper. This results in poor sound and warps.
Quality control is very expensive. Mark
(1) sealed records are the worst of all gambles. They probably aren't new. When the CD came out in the early 80s record stores had deadlines to return the piles of "returns" in the back room. Either the record companies rewrapped them and sent them out again or the local merchant had a shrink-wrapper do it.
Record companies kept rewrapping records with minor defects until they fell into the hands of a person who did't really care. If you took a warped record back to the store, or one with a factory scratch it eventually made it back on someone's shelf.
The rewraps at the end of the LP era are often store demos. I bought a stack of sealed European classicals with official manuf. stickers on them. They had fingerprints, scratches, and scribbles around the center hole. I suspect the companies sent merchants packages of offical sealed-in-Europe stickers.
(2) Microorganisms eat the oils in vinyl. Also, after records are pressed they are often placed on carts and parked in hallways for days. They have a strong static charge with attracts dust when people walk by. New records are usually filthy and also after 20 years have considerable cultures of microbes. The cultures dry out in to very large pops.
(3) Sealed records also suffer from shelf warps which are buckles at the edge of the record from sitting in a hot warehouse in the same position on a shelf for years. This same sort of buckle warp can occur when a factory worker gets rough when twisting slag off of the edge (so I have read).
At least 50% of all the sealed records I have purchased have been defects, including bad pressings where the silvering is defective and they have tremendous noise.
A lot of defects occur due to the fact that multiple presses are all powered by the same source of steam. By chance, when all of them need steam at the same time the pressure is too low for a decent pressing. They also get in a hurry and don't let the vinyl cool before bringing up the stamper. This results in poor sound and warps.
Quality control is very expensive. Mark
hailteflon,
Very informative. Thank you. But depressing. So where do I get good sounding LPs?
Possible? Must be. I read too many accounts of people raving about the sound of their LPs.
Very informative. Thank you. But depressing.
So where do I get good sounding LPs?Possible? Must be. I read too many accounts of people raving about the sound of their LPs.
Where does one get good LPs? You have asked the $64,000 musical question.
In a nutshell, get smart and control your rage.
The biggest problems I had (I have so many now I had to stop) were
(1) someone bending over and putting their rear end in my face when looking through a box
(2) someone claiming that all the records within a few feet on either side of them were theirs and I couldn’t look at them.
If you are in a large city you will find the places where records continually come in. You won’t be the only one watching the pile.
Many of the people know the owner and get to look through them before they are put out. Whatever happens, let it happen. If you get into a scrap then you will have a bad reputation. Your train will eventually come into the station and you will be looking for many years.
As far as judging vinyl is concerned, your greatest enemy is not dirt, but the worn stylus. Avoid dealers that wipe off their records. The dirt tells a story. A worn stylus cuts vinyl and severe wear leaves a white dust on the record. If it gets a lot worse near the inside the groove is probably ripped out.
A worn tip has a flat spot that has a cutting edge. The tonearm is swinging an arc and the orientation of the stylus in the groove is always rotating a bit. When the edge of the flat spot on the stylus swings into position it starts shaving off the tips of the wave form.
Don’t fall for the “get a line-contact stylus” advice. With few exceptions a worn tip wipes most of the groove, top to bottom. A line-contact traces the whole groove wall and will usually trace the damage. A line-contact can help under certain circumstances depending on where the damage is, but they are almost always noisier than an elliptical or conical.
An advantage of a common turntable with detachable headshell is the ability to change cartridges with different tips. It helps to have a line-contact around, but they are often worse.
I concentrate on late 70s reissues. By then many people had replaced the box record player or console (with a chipped sapphire stylus) with a light tracking belt drive or such. I will add here that the average belt drive has very poor speed accuracy due to the fact that the platters are not round.
Much of the collectible vinyl from 50s, 60s, and early 70s is worn and one must keep buying copies to find a good one. If the price is right it can be worth it, if one has the shelf space and the time. They all have to be cleaned first. A record from a house that was with fried food fumes everyday can have a tremendous bacteria culture that grew on it and died. The dead cultures are extremely noisy, but a proper cleaning with proper chemicals can unveil a quiet record.
When a tempting batch of records is located buy a few and take them home. If they have a good groove then buy more.
A vinyl dealer usually grades a record by appearance. They don’t care or even understand what sound quality is. It is a collectible and mint means that someone will give them mint price for it. If I were a dealer I would take all the really good stuff home for me.
Keep checking church sales, garage sales, etc. The boxes that are all $1 are the best place to find vinyl.
Older vinyl from the heavy-tracking era can appear to be ultra-mint. These may be records that were played once for a tape recorder. The groove is massacred by a chipped stylus on a box record player or console.
One last word of advice about record dealers and patience. Some of them have the customer find the good vinyl. If you find something of value in the dollar pile they may jerk it out of your hand and claim it shouldn’t have been in there. This is how they have you do their work. Forget John Wayne (and also Elvis) and calmly walk away. They probably have a security guard ready. They do this all day long and they are good at it. Don’t talk to anyone or show any excitement at what you find and they may not notice. Lying to a customer is not illegal.
Be ready to walk at any time. It will seldom be necessary, but be ready. Sooner or later the word will get around that you are a record collector and someone who doesn’t want to give their records to a dealer or a junk shop will let you have them for little or nothing. Some people bought records and played them very little. If they had a changer with an unworn diamond then they will sound great. 5 grams on a console with a new diamond will not damage a groove, if the cartridge has some compliance. Everything needs to be cleaned, if for no reason because of the wear on the diamond. Dirt cuts diamond life by about 60%.
Also, if you are into classical, the early 80s Columbia Great Performances reissues/remasters are not digital. They are some of the best standard issue vinyl Columbia ever made and they are pure analog. Don’t get them if they have a DBX sticker on the back.
Beware of any record with a DBX sticker on the back or front. DBX was a dolby-type noise reduction that requires extra circuitry purchased in a black box. They sound very bad due to a heavy mid-range peak.
Most vinyl pressed after 1980 is actually digital as are most of the expensive audiophile pressings starting in the late 70s. Beware of the direct-to-dick trick. Unless they didn’t use groove depth control on the cutting head there is no such thing as an analog direct-to-disc.
RCA and Columbia sound best with a large tip radius, .3 mil or more. Mark
In a nutshell, get smart and control your rage.
The biggest problems I had (I have so many now I had to stop) were
(1) someone bending over and putting their rear end in my face when looking through a box
(2) someone claiming that all the records within a few feet on either side of them were theirs and I couldn’t look at them.
If you are in a large city you will find the places where records continually come in. You won’t be the only one watching the pile.
Many of the people know the owner and get to look through them before they are put out. Whatever happens, let it happen. If you get into a scrap then you will have a bad reputation. Your train will eventually come into the station and you will be looking for many years.
As far as judging vinyl is concerned, your greatest enemy is not dirt, but the worn stylus. Avoid dealers that wipe off their records. The dirt tells a story. A worn stylus cuts vinyl and severe wear leaves a white dust on the record. If it gets a lot worse near the inside the groove is probably ripped out.
A worn tip has a flat spot that has a cutting edge. The tonearm is swinging an arc and the orientation of the stylus in the groove is always rotating a bit. When the edge of the flat spot on the stylus swings into position it starts shaving off the tips of the wave form.
Don’t fall for the “get a line-contact stylus” advice. With few exceptions a worn tip wipes most of the groove, top to bottom. A line-contact traces the whole groove wall and will usually trace the damage. A line-contact can help under certain circumstances depending on where the damage is, but they are almost always noisier than an elliptical or conical.
An advantage of a common turntable with detachable headshell is the ability to change cartridges with different tips. It helps to have a line-contact around, but they are often worse.
I concentrate on late 70s reissues. By then many people had replaced the box record player or console (with a chipped sapphire stylus) with a light tracking belt drive or such. I will add here that the average belt drive has very poor speed accuracy due to the fact that the platters are not round.
Much of the collectible vinyl from 50s, 60s, and early 70s is worn and one must keep buying copies to find a good one. If the price is right it can be worth it, if one has the shelf space and the time. They all have to be cleaned first. A record from a house that was with fried food fumes everyday can have a tremendous bacteria culture that grew on it and died. The dead cultures are extremely noisy, but a proper cleaning with proper chemicals can unveil a quiet record.
When a tempting batch of records is located buy a few and take them home. If they have a good groove then buy more.
A vinyl dealer usually grades a record by appearance. They don’t care or even understand what sound quality is. It is a collectible and mint means that someone will give them mint price for it. If I were a dealer I would take all the really good stuff home for me.
Keep checking church sales, garage sales, etc. The boxes that are all $1 are the best place to find vinyl.
Older vinyl from the heavy-tracking era can appear to be ultra-mint. These may be records that were played once for a tape recorder. The groove is massacred by a chipped stylus on a box record player or console.
One last word of advice about record dealers and patience. Some of them have the customer find the good vinyl. If you find something of value in the dollar pile they may jerk it out of your hand and claim it shouldn’t have been in there. This is how they have you do their work. Forget John Wayne (and also Elvis) and calmly walk away. They probably have a security guard ready. They do this all day long and they are good at it. Don’t talk to anyone or show any excitement at what you find and they may not notice. Lying to a customer is not illegal.
Be ready to walk at any time. It will seldom be necessary, but be ready. Sooner or later the word will get around that you are a record collector and someone who doesn’t want to give their records to a dealer or a junk shop will let you have them for little or nothing. Some people bought records and played them very little. If they had a changer with an unworn diamond then they will sound great. 5 grams on a console with a new diamond will not damage a groove, if the cartridge has some compliance. Everything needs to be cleaned, if for no reason because of the wear on the diamond. Dirt cuts diamond life by about 60%.
Also, if you are into classical, the early 80s Columbia Great Performances reissues/remasters are not digital. They are some of the best standard issue vinyl Columbia ever made and they are pure analog. Don’t get them if they have a DBX sticker on the back.
Beware of any record with a DBX sticker on the back or front. DBX was a dolby-type noise reduction that requires extra circuitry purchased in a black box. They sound very bad due to a heavy mid-range peak.
Most vinyl pressed after 1980 is actually digital as are most of the expensive audiophile pressings starting in the late 70s. Beware of the direct-to-dick trick. Unless they didn’t use groove depth control on the cutting head there is no such thing as an analog direct-to-disc.
RCA and Columbia sound best with a large tip radius, .3 mil or more. Mark
Two things improved such problems for me lately.One is cleaning suspect LP's the moment I notice a problem with pure isopropyl(only the first time)and second,I was surprised by the very low noise of cartridges with pathfinder styli(in my case a dynvector model),although I agree with most of hailteflon's comments on styli of these shapes.Very low noice is said to have with microridge tips also.Has anyone had similar experience?
Panicos K: I don't see any edit tabs on this thread. Sometimes they are there, sometimes not.
The microridge is the Shure V15 stylus isn't it? I have not noticed any low noise reproduction from it. Like any LC tip it scans more of the wall and picks up more noise.
Davidlzimmer: The book needs to be written by all of the old cutting and mastering engineers that will be gone to audio heaven in years to come. There are some good articles on the web. I wish they would all get together and write a totally comprehensive technical history of the phonograph record. Columbia put the LP on the market in 1948, before the tape machine was available. They started mastering for the LP in 1945.
RCA tried to market a 33 rpm narrow groove record in the early 30s, but the cartridges were too brutal for the vinyl. There is an excellent 3-part article on the web by Stan Ricker. The mastering discussion starts in part 2. Just Google "Stan Ricker part 2". He gets into what makes a quality pressing.
The microridge is the Shure V15 stylus isn't it? I have not noticed any low noise reproduction from it. Like any LC tip it scans more of the wall and picks up more noise.
Davidlzimmer: The book needs to be written by all of the old cutting and mastering engineers that will be gone to audio heaven in years to come. There are some good articles on the web. I wish they would all get together and write a totally comprehensive technical history of the phonograph record. Columbia put the LP on the market in 1948, before the tape machine was available. They started mastering for the LP in 1945.
RCA tried to market a 33 rpm narrow groove record in the early 30s, but the cartridges were too brutal for the vinyl. There is an excellent 3-part article on the web by Stan Ricker. The mastering discussion starts in part 2. Just Google "Stan Ricker part 2". He gets into what makes a quality pressing.
Panicos,
No biggy. You only have a few minutes to edit your post. Then the option goes away. I think that's to keep you from changing your original post after other members have debated it. 😀
hailteflon,
The book should be written. The industry should not be forgotten.
Thanks for a great reply and read!
hailteflon,suspension,cantilever length and some other features,contribute to the final result.In the case of shure with its very high compliance things are somehow diferent,and I believe that the noice from it has much to do with hf resonances not only because of its compliance(thats the reason for the damping brush) or tip,but also to the flimsy stylus assembly fit.In the case of more rigid cartridges like many mc's these hf resonances are limited mostly to the contribution of the suspension wires.Spherical styli might seem less noisy,but to my opinion are also less informative,while they resonate at lower frequencies,a reason why we usualy believe they are less noisy.After many years,I am convinced that true detail and clarity can be achieved without the noice.Watch the progress of these cartridges,few for now,but hopefully many more soon.The Japanese use microridge on $300 mc's,while the replacement V15V stylus had a very high cost 5-6 years ago,and I don't know how mucg it would cost if it was in production today.Isn't the tip its major diference from the new 97?
PanicosK: Sorry, I didn't see your reply. I will dissect it below.
PK: hailteflon,suspension,cantilever length and some other features,contribute to the final result.In the case of shure with its very high compliance things are somehow diferent,and I believe that the noice from it has much to do with hf resonances not only because of its compliance(thats the reason for the damping brush) or tip,but also to the flimsy stylus assembly fit.
The brush on the Shure carts are basically for low freq stability as I recall. The cart doesn't need it unless the tonearm has deficiencies. The V15 has always been designed for the SME arm. the V15 has a remarkable absence of hi-freq resonance. The noise I spoke of is simply due to scanning more of the groove wall. The stylus hits more dirt and wear.
PK: In the case of more rigid cartridges like many mc's these hf resonances are limited mostly to the contribution of the suspension wires.Spherical styli might seem less noisy,but to my opinion are also less informative,while they resonate at lower frequencies,a reason why we usualy believe they are less noisy.
Any point contact stylus will be quieter than a line-contact: scans less surface. Yes, the spherical stylus is usually on a budget cart and resonates at a much lower freq. Also, the large radius will simply roll over small detail such as noise due to a worn groove wall.
PK: After many years,I am convinced that true detail and clarity can be achieved without the noice.Watch the progress of these cartridges,few for now,but hopefully many more soon.The Japanese use microridge on $300 mc's,while the replacement V15V stylus had a very high cost 5-6 years ago,and I don't know how mucg it would cost if it was in production today.
Shure made a supply of v15 stylii that will last for years before they ceased production. I don't think the v15 stylus is worth the money as is the case with any stylus with a small tracing radius. The smaller the radius the quicker it wears out. A conical lasts a lot longer.
PK: Isn't the tip its major diference from the new 97?
The M97E is an elliptical 2x7. There is more differenece than the tip. The accuracy of the coils is better in expensive carts: better matching of L and R. Also, the vertical compliance is probably matched closer to the lateral compliance.
The problem with the line-contact, aside from the noise which is only worse in dirty and worn records, is the alignment. The cutting angle of the lathe increases as the recording velocity increases. 15 degrees is the nominal figure. It goes up to about 22 degrees at high velocity. I doubt that all records are cut to standards. The rake angle of many carts throughout past years has been far in excess of 15 degrees. A line contact can sound great if it happens to sit in the groove properly. Often times, it doesn't. IMHO. Mark
PK: hailteflon,suspension,cantilever length and some other features,contribute to the final result.In the case of shure with its very high compliance things are somehow diferent,and I believe that the noice from it has much to do with hf resonances not only because of its compliance(thats the reason for the damping brush) or tip,but also to the flimsy stylus assembly fit.
The brush on the Shure carts are basically for low freq stability as I recall. The cart doesn't need it unless the tonearm has deficiencies. The V15 has always been designed for the SME arm. the V15 has a remarkable absence of hi-freq resonance. The noise I spoke of is simply due to scanning more of the groove wall. The stylus hits more dirt and wear.
PK: In the case of more rigid cartridges like many mc's these hf resonances are limited mostly to the contribution of the suspension wires.Spherical styli might seem less noisy,but to my opinion are also less informative,while they resonate at lower frequencies,a reason why we usualy believe they are less noisy.
Any point contact stylus will be quieter than a line-contact: scans less surface. Yes, the spherical stylus is usually on a budget cart and resonates at a much lower freq. Also, the large radius will simply roll over small detail such as noise due to a worn groove wall.
PK: After many years,I am convinced that true detail and clarity can be achieved without the noice.Watch the progress of these cartridges,few for now,but hopefully many more soon.The Japanese use microridge on $300 mc's,while the replacement V15V stylus had a very high cost 5-6 years ago,and I don't know how mucg it would cost if it was in production today.
Shure made a supply of v15 stylii that will last for years before they ceased production. I don't think the v15 stylus is worth the money as is the case with any stylus with a small tracing radius. The smaller the radius the quicker it wears out. A conical lasts a lot longer.
PK: Isn't the tip its major diference from the new 97?
The M97E is an elliptical 2x7. There is more differenece than the tip. The accuracy of the coils is better in expensive carts: better matching of L and R. Also, the vertical compliance is probably matched closer to the lateral compliance.
The problem with the line-contact, aside from the noise which is only worse in dirty and worn records, is the alignment. The cutting angle of the lathe increases as the recording velocity increases. 15 degrees is the nominal figure. It goes up to about 22 degrees at high velocity. I doubt that all records are cut to standards. The rake angle of many carts throughout past years has been far in excess of 15 degrees. A line contact can sound great if it happens to sit in the groove properly. Often times, it doesn't. IMHO. Mark
Hello hailteflon,yes the brush is there for lf resonance damping because of the very high compliance and rather too long cantilever for this compliance.When a cantilever resonates at lf it will never have right hf too,damp the lf and you damp the hf too,due to the disturbed cantilever movement.It reminds me of a well known turntable manufacturer's statement that they used two wrongs to make a right.I don't think there is any significant difference between the coils of v15v and m97.They are made by the same machine.If I remember well Shure themselves blamed the cost of the microridge tip when they stoped making the v15v.All one can find now if he is lucky,is a n.o.s stylus at a most unacceptable price.True,line contact tips need careful alignment,but isn't always the same with precision things?I respect your opinion on spherical tips,but I still hear almost no noise from latest generation lc tips,there are times that you think the stylus is not on the record,but when the music starts,there is so much detail that is beyond the ability of any spherical tip.
Things of which dreams are made of at my budget level! I've learned not to expect perfect but still seek it.
Time,work and savings,bring some dreams closer to reality David.But you can go there step by step(that's seeking right?).A dynavector 20X points to the right direction.And don't ignore the fact that the cost of ''perfection'' becomes lower everyday.
Panicos, Once again I didn't see your reply. I haven't been receiving email notifications for this thread.
Unfortunately I don't have time to get into this subject, too much work to do. You have experience with MC carts, and I do want to hear your opinions. I stay with MM because I have a few years supply of new tips and always have a good one to use. I found some very good deals when the CD was coming out and the LP was being put into its' grave. Not so dead as once believed.
I don't say that the V15 is anything super special, but it does do a good job on high velocity passages...."trackability." I just happen to have a good supply of V15 tips. The v15-III elliptical (.2 mil) does a great job on DGG and Phillips classicals, but I prefer a large radius on many USA pressings, especially RCA. I almost never use the V15-VMR. A slim radius has an irritating sound on almost all except Columbia half-speeds and European classicals, but there are exceptions. DGG and Phillips seem to have their cutting electronics (in the 1970s) set for .2 to .3 mil tips.
In many (if not all) cases the groove wall is not the master, it is "predistorted." This means that "tracing simulation" was used to alter the signal so that reproduction with a large tip radius (usually.5 mil) sounds best. The slim tips are so far off that much of the imaging is lost. On USA standard issues I use a .4 x.7 or a conical for RCA Dynagroove. Can't find many good carts with the large radius. The Grado ellipticals are nominally .3 mil and Joe grado told me they are probably closer to .4 mil. I have a grado 8MZ with the early nude-mounted tip. This is a good cart.
I don't focus on how well a cart deals with the hi-freq. I listen to the midrange imaging. How well (for example) three different instruments or voices get along together. If the slim radius is too far off then much of the imaging is lost. When a new sound enters the field does it degrade those that are already there? This is my criterion for finding the proper radius. Digital audio flunks the imaging test with shame.
Many engineers claim that tracing simulation was rarely used, but I am quite sure that they are wrong. The elliptical didn't enter the market until 1964 and radio stations used conicals straight through until the CD came out. Most tips were conicals in the 1960s and well into the 70s. It stands to reason that the groove was tailored for a conical.
If you are not aware of what this whole subject pertains to then research "tracing distortion."
I will also add that European classicals sound horrible with a large radius.
I could go on for another few feet of typing, but I simply don't have the time.
I suspect that there are MC carts that will blow these MMs out of the water, but it is so expensive to experiment. I am definitely concerned about the large magnet on the hidden end of a MM. The Sumiko Blue Point looks like a good place to start with MC.
Shure claims to have a large supply of tips that they made before stopping production, ten year supply. I would buy a Blue Point before retipping a V15. I bought my V15-VMR in the early 90s for $125. Stylii were $70. It justs sits most of the time. The type III gets a lot of use on European classicals. I found a few new type-III tips (real Shure v-15 ellipticals) in a TV shop that sells the junk aftermarket tips. They are Pfansteihl Originals. He didn't seem to care what they were....cheap.
What RIAA equalizer do you use? David is concerned with noise. A cheap equalizer (and most equalizers in receivers are cheap) accentuates noise. Mark
Unfortunately I don't have time to get into this subject, too much work to do. You have experience with MC carts, and I do want to hear your opinions. I stay with MM because I have a few years supply of new tips and always have a good one to use. I found some very good deals when the CD was coming out and the LP was being put into its' grave. Not so dead as once believed.
I don't say that the V15 is anything super special, but it does do a good job on high velocity passages...."trackability." I just happen to have a good supply of V15 tips. The v15-III elliptical (.2 mil) does a great job on DGG and Phillips classicals, but I prefer a large radius on many USA pressings, especially RCA. I almost never use the V15-VMR. A slim radius has an irritating sound on almost all except Columbia half-speeds and European classicals, but there are exceptions. DGG and Phillips seem to have their cutting electronics (in the 1970s) set for .2 to .3 mil tips.
In many (if not all) cases the groove wall is not the master, it is "predistorted." This means that "tracing simulation" was used to alter the signal so that reproduction with a large tip radius (usually.5 mil) sounds best. The slim tips are so far off that much of the imaging is lost. On USA standard issues I use a .4 x.7 or a conical for RCA Dynagroove. Can't find many good carts with the large radius. The Grado ellipticals are nominally .3 mil and Joe grado told me they are probably closer to .4 mil. I have a grado 8MZ with the early nude-mounted tip. This is a good cart.
I don't focus on how well a cart deals with the hi-freq. I listen to the midrange imaging. How well (for example) three different instruments or voices get along together. If the slim radius is too far off then much of the imaging is lost. When a new sound enters the field does it degrade those that are already there? This is my criterion for finding the proper radius. Digital audio flunks the imaging test with shame.
Many engineers claim that tracing simulation was rarely used, but I am quite sure that they are wrong. The elliptical didn't enter the market until 1964 and radio stations used conicals straight through until the CD came out. Most tips were conicals in the 1960s and well into the 70s. It stands to reason that the groove was tailored for a conical.
If you are not aware of what this whole subject pertains to then research "tracing distortion."
I will also add that European classicals sound horrible with a large radius.
I could go on for another few feet of typing, but I simply don't have the time.
I suspect that there are MC carts that will blow these MMs out of the water, but it is so expensive to experiment. I am definitely concerned about the large magnet on the hidden end of a MM. The Sumiko Blue Point looks like a good place to start with MC.
Shure claims to have a large supply of tips that they made before stopping production, ten year supply. I would buy a Blue Point before retipping a V15. I bought my V15-VMR in the early 90s for $125. Stylii were $70. It justs sits most of the time. The type III gets a lot of use on European classicals. I found a few new type-III tips (real Shure v-15 ellipticals) in a TV shop that sells the junk aftermarket tips. They are Pfansteihl Originals. He didn't seem to care what they were....cheap.
What RIAA equalizer do you use? David is concerned with noise. A cheap equalizer (and most equalizers in receivers are cheap) accentuates noise. Mark
hailteflon,I'm now using the dynavector P75mkII.Iam also using a Nagaoka MP50super mm,and looking for a replacement stylus for my Shure V15type III and IV(you know were I can find one?)I like my mm's,but I have not yet heard them with the P75 II.I will soon do so,and leave my findings about noise with them.The MP50 has one of those Shibata tips I think,so it will be a good test.
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