I'm trying to put together a new PA system for my band and would really appreciate some solid advice.
We have:
three to four vocal mics
two electric guitars/banjo
an electronic rig using both midi keyboard and guitar (all sorts of frequency and textural ranges)
a bass guitar
an analogue synth
and drums.
I know very little about instrument and drum amplification but I really would like to learn more. I'd ideally like to mic all the instruments and vocals, send them through a mixer and amplify them for live shows and recording.
Can anyone give me advice about how you would go about puting together a (somewhat affordable) pa system for live performance? What kind of power would I need from the amp(s), what sort and how many speakers should I look for? Bass is very important to our sound in both the bass guitar and the electronic rig, so subs would be essential. I want it to be powerful enough to play and sound balanced outdoors or in crowded loud indoor environments.
thanks!
-bxe
We have:
three to four vocal mics
two electric guitars/banjo
an electronic rig using both midi keyboard and guitar (all sorts of frequency and textural ranges)
a bass guitar
an analogue synth
and drums.
I know very little about instrument and drum amplification but I really would like to learn more. I'd ideally like to mic all the instruments and vocals, send them through a mixer and amplify them for live shows and recording.
Can anyone give me advice about how you would go about puting together a (somewhat affordable) pa system for live performance? What kind of power would I need from the amp(s), what sort and how many speakers should I look for? Bass is very important to our sound in both the bass guitar and the electronic rig, so subs would be essential. I want it to be powerful enough to play and sound balanced outdoors or in crowded loud indoor environments.
thanks!
-bxe
This is what it takes to support a full band in medium sized venues indoors, outdoors you need to double or triple the total number of speakers. This list is a few years old now so here is a link to a discussion about updating it with modern components.. https://soundforums.net/threads/8477-Quick-and-Dirty-Bar-Rig-2014-Edition#post
https://soundforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=8177&d=1380817027
https://soundforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=8177&d=1380817027
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Budget?
What type of venues? (Number of people?)
Outdoors and loud I am thinking a set of EV ZX5a powered speakers and pair of double 18" subs... Or a line array if that is a option.
What type of venues? (Number of people?)
Outdoors and loud I am thinking a set of EV ZX5a powered speakers and pair of double 18" subs... Or a line array if that is a option.
You're going to have a hard time doing this cheaply.
I'd avoid double-18" cabs on grounds of weight and size - go for multiple 1x18" or 1x15" cabs - you'll be able to scale the PA for venue size better, and you can one-man them up and down stairs. If you're any good at woodworking, DIYing subs can be a very good way of getting good quality LF for cheaper than buying a finished product.
For a kick-off, I'd go for a 20-odd channel mixing desk. The Behringer X32 would save you a lot of inserts etc, so start there.
I'd argue 12" tops are better than 15" tops, as 12"s will be better able to meet a compression driver in the midrange. 12" cones won't hit you in the chest too well, so it'd be worth crossing at ~150Hz or so to stereo subwoofers.
The recent crop of active DSP-controlled kilowatt tops give a wide range to choose from, and are starting to appear on eBay 2nd hand.
You'll probably need a processor to do active crossovers and limiting - a DCX2496 will do that nicely. I really like mine.
For mics, buy the best you can afford. For vocals, you'd ideally try out different mics first. SM58s will always give usable results, but other mics can sound better when matched to a voice that suits. Beware fake mics.
I have a bunch of JTS NX- mics that sound rather good, and it would appear they're cheaper over your side of the world. eBay is your friend.
The Sennheiser E series mics also seem rather good - I like my e838, and there are lots of positive reviews online of the others.
For LF amplification, more is usually more. 2nd hand amps are fine. Avoid the really cheap stuff - it won't do what the manufacturer claims.
Peavey's PV range of amps seems good. Their IPR range gives a lot of power for not-much money, but those blue LEDs divide opinions. Behringer EP4000 amps have been extensively tested, and hold up to their ratings. Very cheap used.
Find something that'll put out a good couple of kilowatts (bridged into 4ohm), and buy a pair. One per side for the subs.
Insist on Neutrik connectors on all speaker and line/mic cable. There's a reason Neutrik connectors are industry-standard: they just work.
For monitors, it might be worth going active, it might not. I wouldn't want the extra cables on-stage, but I wouldn't want the extra amp rack either - that one's down to personal preference.
HTH
Chris
I'd avoid double-18" cabs on grounds of weight and size - go for multiple 1x18" or 1x15" cabs - you'll be able to scale the PA for venue size better, and you can one-man them up and down stairs. If you're any good at woodworking, DIYing subs can be a very good way of getting good quality LF for cheaper than buying a finished product.
For a kick-off, I'd go for a 20-odd channel mixing desk. The Behringer X32 would save you a lot of inserts etc, so start there.
I'd argue 12" tops are better than 15" tops, as 12"s will be better able to meet a compression driver in the midrange. 12" cones won't hit you in the chest too well, so it'd be worth crossing at ~150Hz or so to stereo subwoofers.
The recent crop of active DSP-controlled kilowatt tops give a wide range to choose from, and are starting to appear on eBay 2nd hand.
You'll probably need a processor to do active crossovers and limiting - a DCX2496 will do that nicely. I really like mine.
For mics, buy the best you can afford. For vocals, you'd ideally try out different mics first. SM58s will always give usable results, but other mics can sound better when matched to a voice that suits. Beware fake mics.
I have a bunch of JTS NX- mics that sound rather good, and it would appear they're cheaper over your side of the world. eBay is your friend.
The Sennheiser E series mics also seem rather good - I like my e838, and there are lots of positive reviews online of the others.
For LF amplification, more is usually more. 2nd hand amps are fine. Avoid the really cheap stuff - it won't do what the manufacturer claims.
Peavey's PV range of amps seems good. Their IPR range gives a lot of power for not-much money, but those blue LEDs divide opinions. Behringer EP4000 amps have been extensively tested, and hold up to their ratings. Very cheap used.
Find something that'll put out a good couple of kilowatts (bridged into 4ohm), and buy a pair. One per side for the subs.
Insist on Neutrik connectors on all speaker and line/mic cable. There's a reason Neutrik connectors are industry-standard: they just work.
For monitors, it might be worth going active, it might not. I wouldn't want the extra cables on-stage, but I wouldn't want the extra amp rack either - that one's down to personal preference.
HTH
Chris
first and foremost if you've accepted the mantle of P.A.dude for the band i hope your fairly well acquainted with troubleshooting and can make/repair cables as in; can solder.
much of the care and feeding of a rig involves cable care (cause without good cabling things will not work as intended)
in shopping for gear whether used or new pay attention to connection standards (i hope your acquainted with balanced lines and other things like insert cables and the like)
being that your looking to combine acoustic drums (miked of course! check out Audio Technica drum pak/kits ) and synth sources (high quality DI's BSS and or Countyman) at least a double eighteen sub with a double 12 mid with a 2" hf horn to make it a 3 way for f.o.h. as a start.
for me as an old school sound dude it' all about the stage mix.
monitors are crucial to making both good performance, and can make or break the house mix.(good quality powered speakers Mackie, JBL( maybe high on the budgetary side QSC also) make for excellent monitors and for smaller gigs can be used as f.o.h./mains.
next on my list would be at least three stereo 1/3 octave 31 band EQ's (for house and 4 monitor mixes)
as far as advice as to amp size/watts that's a variable that depends on the box/driver spec's and is very budget dependent.
oh and make allowances for things like good quality road cases don't make the mistake of thinking GIG BAGS will protect your gear(and if you've done any online shopping/pricing your probably getting a pretty good idea how much some of this gear is going to cost make sure it survives the trip to the show!)
much of the care and feeding of a rig involves cable care (cause without good cabling things will not work as intended)
in shopping for gear whether used or new pay attention to connection standards (i hope your acquainted with balanced lines and other things like insert cables and the like)
being that your looking to combine acoustic drums (miked of course! check out Audio Technica drum pak/kits ) and synth sources (high quality DI's BSS and or Countyman) at least a double eighteen sub with a double 12 mid with a 2" hf horn to make it a 3 way for f.o.h. as a start.
for me as an old school sound dude it' all about the stage mix.
monitors are crucial to making both good performance, and can make or break the house mix.(good quality powered speakers Mackie, JBL( maybe high on the budgetary side QSC also) make for excellent monitors and for smaller gigs can be used as f.o.h./mains.
next on my list would be at least three stereo 1/3 octave 31 band EQ's (for house and 4 monitor mixes)
as far as advice as to amp size/watts that's a variable that depends on the box/driver spec's and is very budget dependent.
oh and make allowances for things like good quality road cases don't make the mistake of thinking GIG BAGS will protect your gear(and if you've done any online shopping/pricing your probably getting a pretty good idea how much some of this gear is going to cost make sure it survives the trip to the show!)
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