Sorry but this is, but it one more tread about what to do when boredom hits 😉
I used to have RAAL 140-15D and satori 16P which I have sold, but now thinking to give it another try, but in 3way setup.
( I have sold Raal and Satori as I needed money for some other project, so never have realy time to play with it as I would like to...)
So the plan is to build something that goes from 20Hz to 20kHz 😉 (oldo, now days, I can hear only up to 16kHz 😀😀😀)
or something like that
The design would look like Ascendo System Z loudspeakers
Tweeter: Raal 140-15D
mid bass: Satori 13P or 16P
bass/sub woofer: SB29NRX75-6, or peerless XLS10, or peerless XXLS12 (peerless, bacause I have them)
as I understand SB29NRX75-6 was used in combination with Satori 16P in Jeff Bagby and Treols design with good results
so I'm thinking to go sime way
SBAcoustics 10
Jeff Bagby - The Kairos and Continuum Three-Way Loudspeakers
Box
5" SATORI MW13P-8 :: SB Acoustics
61/2" SATORI MW16P-8 :: SB Acoustics
10" SB29NRX75-6 :: SB Acoustics
or instead of SB29 to use Peerless XLS10 P830452 (which I have from BKelectronic http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Drive_Units/Peerless/XLS10.htm )
https://www.tymphany.com/wp-content/themes/pathfinders/cache/pdfs/XLS-P830452.pdf
Application note for PeerlessXLS 10" subwoofer drive units
http://www.d-s-t.com.au/data/Peerless/Peerless_XLS_Subwoofer.pdf
or Peerless XXLS12 P830845
https://www.tymphany.com/wp-content/themes/pathfinders/cache/pdfs/XXLS-P830845.pdf
I have two of those XLS10 (which I was plan to use for HT sub in like 25L with linkwitz transform via DSP)
and one XXLS12 (which I use for HT sub in 65L closed)
The plan is to build cabinet as big as 15-20L for midbas and up to 60-65L for bass/sub
People recommend to cross Raal 140-15D at 3kHz, so would it be better to use Satori 13P or 16P in combination with it ?
Should I use SB29 or XLS10 or XXLS12 for lower end ?
Maybe rather XXLS12 closed in 50-65L with LR via DSP ? then SB12 in bass reflex ?
Source is rPi or PC
DSP is the one with es9028pro http://analog-precision.com/UPXO.html
amplifiers from hypex nc252+nc100hf (2x250w+100w) but I can always add some extra power for lower end of needed)
any advices is appreciated 😉
or maybe some other drivers to think about, sbacoustics Satori WO24P-4 😀
thanks
I used to have RAAL 140-15D and satori 16P which I have sold, but now thinking to give it another try, but in 3way setup.
( I have sold Raal and Satori as I needed money for some other project, so never have realy time to play with it as I would like to...)
So the plan is to build something that goes from 20Hz to 20kHz 😉 (oldo, now days, I can hear only up to 16kHz 😀😀😀)
or something like that
The design would look like Ascendo System Z loudspeakers
Tweeter: Raal 140-15D
mid bass: Satori 13P or 16P
bass/sub woofer: SB29NRX75-6, or peerless XLS10, or peerless XXLS12 (peerless, bacause I have them)
as I understand SB29NRX75-6 was used in combination with Satori 16P in Jeff Bagby and Treols design with good results
so I'm thinking to go sime way
SBAcoustics 10
Jeff Bagby - The Kairos and Continuum Three-Way Loudspeakers
Box
5" SATORI MW13P-8 :: SB Acoustics
61/2" SATORI MW16P-8 :: SB Acoustics
10" SB29NRX75-6 :: SB Acoustics
or instead of SB29 to use Peerless XLS10 P830452 (which I have from BKelectronic http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Drive_Units/Peerless/XLS10.htm )
https://www.tymphany.com/wp-content/themes/pathfinders/cache/pdfs/XLS-P830452.pdf
Application note for PeerlessXLS 10" subwoofer drive units
http://www.d-s-t.com.au/data/Peerless/Peerless_XLS_Subwoofer.pdf
or Peerless XXLS12 P830845
https://www.tymphany.com/wp-content/themes/pathfinders/cache/pdfs/XXLS-P830845.pdf
I have two of those XLS10 (which I was plan to use for HT sub in like 25L with linkwitz transform via DSP)
and one XXLS12 (which I use for HT sub in 65L closed)
The plan is to build cabinet as big as 15-20L for midbas and up to 60-65L for bass/sub
People recommend to cross Raal 140-15D at 3kHz, so would it be better to use Satori 13P or 16P in combination with it ?
Should I use SB29 or XLS10 or XXLS12 for lower end ?
Maybe rather XXLS12 closed in 50-65L with LR via DSP ? then SB12 in bass reflex ?
Source is rPi or PC
DSP is the one with es9028pro http://analog-precision.com/UPXO.html
amplifiers from hypex nc252+nc100hf (2x250w+100w) but I can always add some extra power for lower end of needed)
any advices is appreciated 😉
or maybe some other drivers to think about, sbacoustics Satori WO24P-4 😀
thanks
Attachments
Review the large radius edge rounds used by Vapor Audio as an attractive low diffraction cabinet style. The Satori MR13P uses a shorter coil than the MW13P, which allows the MR13P to produce a smoother 3kHz+ response. The Vapor cabinets use a tapered rear volume to remove upper midrange frequency resonances. The 9" Satori WO24P woofer does not show cone breakup until 2.5kHz. The WO24P in a cleverly designed sealed cabinet can produce clean transients, plus handle the power required for active bass equalization.
Attachments
I've got an Ascendo-aesthetic idea rolling-around (based on a similar older design of mine that's no longer).
-the Peerless subs would work well with the idea, but ironically - the other driver's you are thinking about would not. 😱
The most particular point about the idea is that the midrange is radial (as in "upward firing" - toward the tweeter, inset to the lower cabinet's top panel). And I know of a driver that should work well in this capacity. 🙂
Thanks LineSource,
Was thinking about 16P as I can cross it lower and can place on side of cabinet not woring would I be able to hear where the sound is coming from.
With 13 + 24 I would go with clasic look of loudspeakers
but will think about it 😉
As I see 24 goes in like 30L for Qtc of 0.7...
What size of cabinet would you recomend for 24 with DSP in minde ? 😉
ScottG, thanks but it sounds like pandora box to me... 😉
Whell, I should watch football game, maybe than I would not get the idea about new project 😉
Was thinking about 16P as I can cross it lower and can place on side of cabinet not woring would I be able to hear where the sound is coming from.
With 13 + 24 I would go with clasic look of loudspeakers
but will think about it 😉
As I see 24 goes in like 30L for Qtc of 0.7...
What size of cabinet would you recomend for 24 with DSP in minde ? 😉
ScottG, thanks but it sounds like pandora box to me... 😉
Whell, I should watch football game, maybe than I would not get the idea about new project 😉
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If you already possess two P830452 drivers there is no brainer what are you going to use for low-end extension. They are cheap, large stroke and also very high motor strength type of subwoofer drivers which is rarity nowadays. They will be perfectly happy in small 15 dm3 sealed boxes with DSP equalization. A pair of these in small sealed cabinets can go very deep but with not-so high efficiency which is to be considered when are you going to use it in larger room. Do not try to drive them higher than to 100Hz becouse they will become to sound sluggish. They will need at least a NC500MP to drive in order to utilize its full stroke in smallish box.
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Whell, I could give them a try, build some test cabinets 😉
I have pair of LJM L30D ( thay are like 600W amplifiers so thay would do the trick )
will see in like 4weeks from now 😉
I used them as woofers, up to 200Hz, with no ill apparent effects-
What's old is NEW again. Peerless XLS in sealed box, F3= 23Hz -
Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
What's old is NEW again. Peerless XLS in sealed box, F3= 23Hz -
Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
AudioExcite RAAL 140-15D review suggests 3kHz crossover for best sound and lowest distortion. For modest slope crossovers between 2.5-3kHz, the Satori MR13P and even MR16P look like a better match than the MW16P - which produces some beaming at these frequencies. To match these sealed box midranges, a (steep slope) woofer crossover ~200Hz is required from your P830452 drivers.
"The RAAL 140-15D is a ribbon tweeter made by the RAAL Company in eastern Serbia.
The RAAL 140-15D ribbon is made of a 21 sq. cm (14×1,5cm) pure aluminium flat foil which weighs 22mg. It has a sturdy build quality with a 2mm metal faceplate and uses a very powerful neodymium motor system. The ribbon provides a linear frequency response up to +40kHz with an outstanding horizontal off-axis dispersion and for a ribbon tweeter, low distortion and great vertical dispersion.
With special “foam deflection pads” it’s possible to adjust, control and improve the vertical dispersion and the so called vertical “beaming” of high frequencies, which is commonly seen among large ribbons.
The “foam deflection pads” are working as an acoustic lens, by slowing down the velocity of sound and thus shaping the sound wave front from cylindrical to spherical.
By using the “deflection pads” the high frequency response level can be adjusted to personal preferences without the need of additional padding resistors as well as adjusting and controlling both the vertical and horizontal dispersion.
Even though this ribbon tweeter is expensive, it’s one of the best measuring ribbon tweeters on the market and with innovative design features such as “foam deflections pads” and specially designed face plates etc.
To ensure a nice distortion safety margin I recommend using the RAAL 140-15D from 3kHz or higher. However by using steep cross-over filters it can be used from 2-2.5kHz with some elevated distortion and limited max output."
"The RAAL 140-15D is a ribbon tweeter made by the RAAL Company in eastern Serbia.
The RAAL 140-15D ribbon is made of a 21 sq. cm (14×1,5cm) pure aluminium flat foil which weighs 22mg. It has a sturdy build quality with a 2mm metal faceplate and uses a very powerful neodymium motor system. The ribbon provides a linear frequency response up to +40kHz with an outstanding horizontal off-axis dispersion and for a ribbon tweeter, low distortion and great vertical dispersion.
With special “foam deflection pads” it’s possible to adjust, control and improve the vertical dispersion and the so called vertical “beaming” of high frequencies, which is commonly seen among large ribbons.
The “foam deflection pads” are working as an acoustic lens, by slowing down the velocity of sound and thus shaping the sound wave front from cylindrical to spherical.
By using the “deflection pads” the high frequency response level can be adjusted to personal preferences without the need of additional padding resistors as well as adjusting and controlling both the vertical and horizontal dispersion.
Even though this ribbon tweeter is expensive, it’s one of the best measuring ribbon tweeters on the market and with innovative design features such as “foam deflections pads” and specially designed face plates etc.
To ensure a nice distortion safety margin I recommend using the RAAL 140-15D from 3kHz or higher. However by using steep cross-over filters it can be used from 2-2.5kHz with some elevated distortion and limited max output."
Hi Yoke,
if I were you, I'd start with XLS10's and choose the unknown rest of midbass units. Filter out the midrange junk out of the subs and the rest is straightforward.
if I were you, I'd start with XLS10's and choose the unknown rest of midbass units. Filter out the midrange junk out of the subs and the rest is straightforward.
So, as I see it 😉
I was hoping that maybe Satori 16P would do with RAAL
but as pointed out the MR13P would be better option with RAAL
but for this combo I presume that I would need Satori WO24 for lower end as it can go high for better crossing with MR13P
If I would go with XLS10 I believe that 16P would be better choice for mid bas but then I mide have some problem with RAAL
but,again, I mide change RAAL with Satori Beryllium
or even go with WO24 + 16P + Satori Beryllium
and there is room...
As I have very small room with an even wall's some say horror room for music 😀
the plan was to build 2 small subs with XLS10 to tray to even bass response
so I'm gonna use XLS10 for that purpose
and buy new drivers for this project
So, to resume, I will go with
WO24 + MR13P + RAAL 140-15D AM
what box volume would you advise for MR13P ?
WO24 would go into 30L ? ( with use of DSP to rise lower response)
would I get anything with rising box volume for WO24 to 45L ?
it attachment is box model for WO24 in 30L in green, 45L in blue
and XSL10 25L in red
have use
Free subwoofer box calculator online.
and the blue print of my apartment,red is loudspeaker placement, to give you idea
I was hoping that maybe Satori 16P would do with RAAL
but as pointed out the MR13P would be better option with RAAL
but for this combo I presume that I would need Satori WO24 for lower end as it can go high for better crossing with MR13P
If I would go with XLS10 I believe that 16P would be better choice for mid bas but then I mide have some problem with RAAL
but,again, I mide change RAAL with Satori Beryllium
or even go with WO24 + 16P + Satori Beryllium
and there is room...
As I have very small room with an even wall's some say horror room for music 😀
the plan was to build 2 small subs with XLS10 to tray to even bass response
so I'm gonna use XLS10 for that purpose
and buy new drivers for this project
So, to resume, I will go with
WO24 + MR13P + RAAL 140-15D AM
what box volume would you advise for MR13P ?
WO24 would go into 30L ? ( with use of DSP to rise lower response)
would I get anything with rising box volume for WO24 to 45L ?
it attachment is box model for WO24 in 30L in green, 45L in blue
and XSL10 25L in red
have use
Free subwoofer box calculator online.
and the blue print of my apartment,red is loudspeaker placement, to give you idea
Attachments
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Soon I will have experience with WO24P, I have it in 60l BR enclosure, crossover parts already at home.
en-EV :: Pkaudio
en-EV :: Pkaudio
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-you could do a mild horn loading of the RAAL to extend the useful response of the driver down to a lower freq. and a more appropriate radiation pattern relative to a larger midrange/midbass driver.
In fact, if it were me I'd do that on both sides of the tweeter baffle and go with the dipole version. 😉
In fact, if it were me I'd do that on both sides of the tweeter baffle and go with the dipole version. 😉
Please post results 😉
Like my life is not complicated enough 😀
Im not able to execute those idea Scott 🙄 (I'm not an expert in any way 😀)
Yoke, first things first, as they say. Get to know useful excel based simulators from J.Bagby, Woofer Box and Circuit Designer, Response Modeler, Passive Crossover Designer, XSim by B.Waslo, find tracing program FPGraphTracer, a textual editor and invest the time to design a virtual loudspeaker first. You can design any LT, active, passive filters, EQ etc. You have got a lot of already good components, except midrange units.
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thanks Lojzek for advice 😀
have used some of those in the past 😀 but now day's I got less and less time to learn new stuff and I have forget what I learned in the past 😀
but will put some effort into it
I was thinking to buy all drivers and jump into project, try to swim, until I sink 😀😀😀
and then go to another project 😀
maybe I should try with boombox, as some smart people, and leave those hi-fi stuff behind 😀
Based upon Google, the RAAL 140-15d is a popular ribbon tweeter with documented high quality measurements. On a medium width baffle, a 3kHz Butterworth topology uses:
5uF input // 0.27mH to ground // 6.8uF at ribbon
A series input resistor around 4-8 ohms should balance SPL with the Satori MR13P-4
Once you decide upon the baffle size/shape a CAD baffle sim will allow good 3kHz crossover ckt for the MR13P-4
Will you put the woofer on the side? On the front? A tapered narrow top, wide bottom woofer baffle?
You will want to run a room and baffle sim before you design the woofer Xover circuit...or are you going active?
Measuring Raal 140-15D -
Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
My RefSpeaker
5uF input // 0.27mH to ground // 6.8uF at ribbon
A series input resistor around 4-8 ohms should balance SPL with the Satori MR13P-4
Once you decide upon the baffle size/shape a CAD baffle sim will allow good 3kHz crossover ckt for the MR13P-4
Will you put the woofer on the side? On the front? A tapered narrow top, wide bottom woofer baffle?
You will want to run a room and baffle sim before you design the woofer Xover circuit...or are you going active?
Measuring Raal 140-15D -
Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
My RefSpeaker
Attachments
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