Hi Gaetan,
Don't use sockets. They increase inter-lead capacitance.
If you pull the muting transistors, you will have an audible improvement - but might be small. Replace them with a signal relay that will short to ground in mute. I find that muting transistors misbehave sometimes on signal peaks.
The NE5532 is a good sounding op amp. Also try OP275 (fet input) as it is cheap and sounds good. The NE5532 has good output drive and is a proven (but old) performer. It's hard to say what you will like.
Check the output op amps for oscillation if you put in a faster model. This is always a good thing to check.
-Chris
Don't use sockets. They increase inter-lead capacitance.
If you pull the muting transistors, you will have an audible improvement - but might be small. Replace them with a signal relay that will short to ground in mute. I find that muting transistors misbehave sometimes on signal peaks.
The NE5532 is a good sounding op amp. Also try OP275 (fet input) as it is cheap and sounds good. The NE5532 has good output drive and is a proven (but old) performer. It's hard to say what you will like.
Check the output op amps for oscillation if you put in a faster model. This is always a good thing to check.
-Chris
Hello
Tonight I did try the OPA2134 but there was some oscillations, so I pulled it out and place a NE5532, now it's ok and sound much better than the 4558 op amp. And I did ad some electrolytic cap on the VCC rails near the Dac and also near the NE5532 op amp.
So it's gone be a NE5532, now I can close the cd player.
Thank all
Gaetan
Tonight I did try the OPA2134 but there was some oscillations, so I pulled it out and place a NE5532, now it's ok and sound much better than the 4558 op amp. And I did ad some electrolytic cap on the VCC rails near the Dac and also near the NE5532 op amp.
So it's gone be a NE5532, now I can close the cd player.
Thank all
Gaetan
"......................So it's gone be a NE5532, now I can close the cd player................."
That's a good decision. This is a good sounding chip. You should now listen to this for some time before you plan on making any more changes. Maybe 6 months or preferably a year or more. If you still find it sounding great , stick with it. Remember that more than the chips there might be other parts ( capacitors ? ) that might help improve the sound.
"Upgrading " is only worth it if you can hear a significant change.
Your board apparently cannot handle newer generation opamps.
So stick with the NE553X . One 'possible' option is the NJM4580 . I think they claim it's a step up from the NE553x series . I'm not sure about that but some midpriced sound cards use the NJM4580.
Cheers.
That's a good decision. This is a good sounding chip. You should now listen to this for some time before you plan on making any more changes. Maybe 6 months or preferably a year or more. If you still find it sounding great , stick with it. Remember that more than the chips there might be other parts ( capacitors ? ) that might help improve the sound.
"Upgrading " is only worth it if you can hear a significant change.
Your board apparently cannot handle newer generation opamps.
So stick with the NE553X . One 'possible' option is the NJM4580 . I think they claim it's a step up from the NE553x series . I'm not sure about that but some midpriced sound cards use the NJM4580.
Cheers.
Im surprised nobody has mentioned the OPA2604 dual, this one is currently used in alot of upscale players for output buffering and I/V duties, not my favorite though but is better than many stock chips. As always, I cant stress enough the need to carefully study the datasheets before implementation..
Colin
Colin
Hello
I could not resisted to have a listening session before going to sleep (a bit late now), but now I can say that the old workhorse NE5532 do a very good job, the mid and the high are much more clean and alive compared to the crapy NJM4558.
I did put a small cap across the output electrolytic caps.
Good night... I feel sleepy now
... zzzzzz
Gaetan
I could not resisted to have a listening session before going to sleep (a bit late now), but now I can say that the old workhorse NE5532 do a very good job, the mid and the high are much more clean and alive compared to the crapy NJM4558.
I did put a small cap across the output electrolytic caps.
Good night... I feel sleepy now
... zzzzzzGaetan
Vinuhl.addict: ...because gaetan8888 specifically said that he had an NE5532 + OPA 2134 on stock. So he wanted to use one of those.
I have also tried OPA2604 and this one is a tad better than OPA2134 in standard x2 amplification circuit. But gaetan8888 did not have this one on stock.
Ashok: I also tried the NJM4580, but is is only slightly better than 4558, and worse than NE5532 and OPA21234.
There are several other threads discussing wich opamp is the best, and this topic is a bomb since everybody has their own favorite.
But when you are to choose from NJM4558, NE5532 and OPA2134 then NJM4558 is definitely out.
SandyK: Of course it is highly subjectively biased, it is all based on personal experiences. Gaetan8888 asked, and I wanted him to benefit from my knowledge.
I didnt't suggest to increase the output R's - they are already 600ohms (check the schematic), just to keep them.
Without them (0ohms) the signal transfer of a regular interconnect cable sends back ringin from the high-impedance receiving-end.
And then it becomes critical what kind of snake-oil interconnect one is using.
A couple of hundred ohms output impedance reduces the ringing effect a lot, and all those snake-oil interconnects are no longer so different, because of a more perfect transfer.
The proff XLR 600 ohms output/input system is also about this. So is FM + TV antennas with 75ohms.
Regarding increasing supply caps at the DAC:
You are right about high-speed regulators, but I am pretty sure that Denon uses LM78/79 series (maybe gaetan8888 can show the supply part of the schematic also) as did the Pioneer PD-S607, and PD-S06 that I did this operation in. I can only say that it had a hughe effect.
Try it !
I have also tried OPA2604 and this one is a tad better than OPA2134 in standard x2 amplification circuit. But gaetan8888 did not have this one on stock.
Ashok: I also tried the NJM4580, but is is only slightly better than 4558, and worse than NE5532 and OPA21234.
There are several other threads discussing wich opamp is the best, and this topic is a bomb since everybody has their own favorite.
But when you are to choose from NJM4558, NE5532 and OPA2134 then NJM4558 is definitely out.
SandyK: Of course it is highly subjectively biased, it is all based on personal experiences. Gaetan8888 asked, and I wanted him to benefit from my knowledge.
I didnt't suggest to increase the output R's - they are already 600ohms (check the schematic), just to keep them.
Without them (0ohms) the signal transfer of a regular interconnect cable sends back ringin from the high-impedance receiving-end.
And then it becomes critical what kind of snake-oil interconnect one is using.
A couple of hundred ohms output impedance reduces the ringing effect a lot, and all those snake-oil interconnects are no longer so different, because of a more perfect transfer.
The proff XLR 600 ohms output/input system is also about this. So is FM + TV antennas with 75ohms.
Regarding increasing supply caps at the DAC:
You are right about high-speed regulators, but I am pretty sure that Denon uses LM78/79 series (maybe gaetan8888 can show the supply part of the schematic also) as did the Pioneer PD-S607, and PD-S06 that I did this operation in. I can only say that it had a hughe effect.
Try it !
NJM4558
Nrik
Which opamp sounds best depends on many different variables, so you can not say with any certainty that a particular kind of opamp sounds best in someone else's equipment lineup. The function of the series resistor is to prevent the opamp from driving into a capacitive load for stability reasons. The amount of capacitive loading is often specified in data sheets.Regarding doubling the capacitance around the DAC supplies may work to apparently improve performance in certain types of equipment, but there are many recent threads covering the subject of bypassing opamps, and this is definitely not the correct method.
The best method is to have the voltage regulators close to the opamps and use manufacturers recommended values.Increasing this capacitance as described without any other suitable bypassing will alter the tonal balance too. You may prefer that sound, but it doesn't mean it is accurate.
As for trying your method, my friends and myself have quite a bit of experience in this area modifying Musical Fidelity X-DACs , and I would definitely not do what you recommend.
SandyK
Nrik
Which opamp sounds best depends on many different variables, so you can not say with any certainty that a particular kind of opamp sounds best in someone else's equipment lineup. The function of the series resistor is to prevent the opamp from driving into a capacitive load for stability reasons. The amount of capacitive loading is often specified in data sheets.Regarding doubling the capacitance around the DAC supplies may work to apparently improve performance in certain types of equipment, but there are many recent threads covering the subject of bypassing opamps, and this is definitely not the correct method.
The best method is to have the voltage regulators close to the opamps and use manufacturers recommended values.Increasing this capacitance as described without any other suitable bypassing will alter the tonal balance too. You may prefer that sound, but it doesn't mean it is accurate.
As for trying your method, my friends and myself have quite a bit of experience in this area modifying Musical Fidelity X-DACs , and I would definitely not do what you recommend.
SandyK
Hi Nrik,
BTW, if you see a "DD" marking, this means it is a quieter version, lower noise.
-Chris
This is a fet input op amp and is substantially better than a 4558 type. I've never stacked them up beside the others, but it can sound good as well. It certainly does not deserve to be dismissed out of hand.
BTW, if you see a "DD" marking, this means it is a quieter version, lower noise.
-Chris
Hi Nrik,
Somewhere there should be some specs on these series. Some are better than you'd think. Even really old ones like the 4580. Possibly not great, but not bad either.
-Chris 😉
Somewhere there should be some specs on these series. Some are better than you'd think. Even really old ones like the 4580. Possibly not great, but not bad either.
-Chris 😉
Re: NJM4558
Basically you are right, and certainly when you are moving in Musical Fidelity X5 range - but Sandy this is a relatively cheap (no offence gaetan!) Multi CD-player, so almost any change will be an improvement. And in my opinion almost anything sounds better than the NJM4558.
...and that is why I described what every of my modification-suggestions do to the sound (e.g: "...wich improves midrange and treble detail and clarity") so that gaetan could choose for himself what kind of 'sound' he wanted.
Besides: The correct sound is not a written standard, and the most 'correct' thing to do would probably be to leave the circuit unmodified. But Hey - where is the fun in that? Modifications like these on cheap equipment where nothing really can go wrong is great fun.
sandyK said:
Basically you are right, and certainly when you are moving in Musical Fidelity X5 range - but Sandy this is a relatively cheap (no offence gaetan!) Multi CD-player, so almost any change will be an improvement. And in my opinion almost anything sounds better than the NJM4558.
...and that is why I described what every of my modification-suggestions do to the sound (e.g: "...wich improves midrange and treble detail and clarity") so that gaetan could choose for himself what kind of 'sound' he wanted.
Besides: The correct sound is not a written standard, and the most 'correct' thing to do would probably be to leave the circuit unmodified. But Hey - where is the fun in that? Modifications like these on cheap equipment where nothing really can go wrong is great fun.
... I totally respect your experiences, and with equipment like this I agree that one should now what he or she is doing, and the risk is that you change the 'sound' rather than improve it.
I just read that, thanks to a link mentionned in the news section of the french Elektor site :
http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LME49860.html
http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LME49860.html
NJM4558D
Forr
I think that may be the renamed LM4562
Anatech
My replies to Gaetan were deliberately worded that way, because I know from past experience, that Gaetan has a very enquiring mind, and seeks out fullest information, and then does further reseach on his own. I feel sure that Gaetan would have stuck with the OPA2134 and taken appropiate (simple) measures to stabilise it, if he had adequate room to manoeuvre.
Regards
SandyK
Forr
I think that may be the renamed LM4562
Anatech
My replies to Gaetan were deliberately worded that way, because I know from past experience, that Gaetan has a very enquiring mind, and seeks out fullest information, and then does further reseach on his own. I feel sure that Gaetan would have stuck with the OPA2134 and taken appropiate (simple) measures to stabilise it, if he had adequate room to manoeuvre.
Regards
SandyK
Hi Sandy,
I agree with you.
I had no problem with your post at all. I hope you didn't feel I contradicted you in any way. If so, it was unintentional.
Notice I did tell him to watch for oscillations. I'm getting tired of saying that.
-Chris
I agree with you.
I had no problem with your post at all. I hope you didn't feel I contradicted you in any way. If so, it was unintentional.
Notice I did tell him to watch for oscillations. I'm getting tired of saying that.
-Chris
Hello all
Yes Sandyk are correct about me, but sometime I can't find the info I need.
That cd player are not for me, I did buy that Denon DCM-260 for a friend, but I did want to do some modifications since she have good ear and she will eard the difference, it's gone be her first good sound system since I will made her a 40 watt version of the Dx amp to go with that Denon and I will made her loudspeaker using full range Fostex FE206E.
For myself I have a Denon DCM-420, it use a CXD2500 digital signal processor, SM5840 8 times oversampling filter, and PCM61 Dac. It sound good but have a lack a bit of definition and soundstage. The opamp are inside the PCM61, but it can be the curent output and an external opamp, at least I've succeed to adjust the LSB to minimum using my soudcard input and a sine wave at -60 db on a cd.
But I would like to use the D out (I think it should be from there) of the CXD2500 digital signal processor to feed a TDA1541 in non-oversampling, any suggestions ?
(easyer than made a complete separated Dac since I have only CS8416 and it not seem to go with the TDA1541)
bTW, Denon DCM-260 and Denon DCM-420 use the same mechanic and laser, how much hours those Denon laser head would last ?
If some remember, I was repairing a Radford HD250 power amp, now it's mine since my old friend give it to me for my birthday last month, and I have Mordeaunt-Short speaker.
Thank all
Gaetan
Yes Sandyk are correct about me, but sometime I can't find the info I need.
That cd player are not for me, I did buy that Denon DCM-260 for a friend, but I did want to do some modifications since she have good ear and she will eard the difference, it's gone be her first good sound system since I will made her a 40 watt version of the Dx amp to go with that Denon and I will made her loudspeaker using full range Fostex FE206E.
For myself I have a Denon DCM-420, it use a CXD2500 digital signal processor, SM5840 8 times oversampling filter, and PCM61 Dac. It sound good but have a lack a bit of definition and soundstage. The opamp are inside the PCM61, but it can be the curent output and an external opamp, at least I've succeed to adjust the LSB to minimum using my soudcard input and a sine wave at -60 db on a cd.
But I would like to use the D out (I think it should be from there) of the CXD2500 digital signal processor to feed a TDA1541 in non-oversampling, any suggestions ?
(easyer than made a complete separated Dac since I have only CS8416 and it not seem to go with the TDA1541)
bTW, Denon DCM-260 and Denon DCM-420 use the same mechanic and laser, how much hours those Denon laser head would last ?
If some remember, I was repairing a Radford HD250 power amp, now it's mine since my old friend give it to me for my birthday last month, and I have Mordeaunt-Short speaker.
Thank all
Gaetan
Hi Gaetan,
Consider using a BB chip that will interface directly with your SM5840. If you look at the data sheet for the SM5840, they will show you how to interface it with other DACs.
The TDA1541A is from an earlier time, although you may find the information there to interface this too. Make an access plug and you can try different DACs out.
-Chris
Consider using a BB chip that will interface directly with your SM5840. If you look at the data sheet for the SM5840, they will show you how to interface it with other DACs.
The TDA1541A is from an earlier time, although you may find the information there to interface this too. Make an access plug and you can try different DACs out.
-Chris
Hello anatech
I'm a real beginer in Digital electronics, I have those spec sheet in pdf but I find hard to understand them.
I allready have a TDA1541 chip.
Gaetan
I'm a real beginer in Digital electronics, I have those spec sheet in pdf but I find hard to understand them.
I allready have a TDA1541 chip.
Gaetan
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