I've searched through the forums, and I seen several mentions and recommendations for books on amplifier design and construction, but in my experience, these assume more of an understanding of basic electronics and electronic theory than I have. I've learned a few things here and there, but I still don't know anything close to what I want to know. For one thing, I want a book that will take me from a beginner level, to at least a knowledgable intermediate level. I want something to explain in detail basic electronic theory and and all the equations one needs for designing a circuit. I don't want it to be specific to audio, as I would like to be able to build other types of circuits as well. I want most of the focus to be on discrete circuits, with lots of information given about BJTs and FETs, and I would also like at least an introduction to digital circuits. I also don't want to spend more than about US $60. I don't know if a book exissts that covers all those topics in depth and gives a broad overview of other topics, but please tell me about any books you have read that sort of fit that description.
i concur..this is an excellent book..bit expensice..but im sure you can shop around..it covers almost all aspects of electronics..
I think the mentioned book is a good suggestion as it covers (not only) basic things very well.
I wouldn´t go for "specialized" book like the ones from Randy Slone or Douglas Self as you´d still need the basics.
I had a very good reading also in the articles from Nelson Pass at Pass DIY.
It covers basic discrete opamps and how mosfets work and much more. (diyopamp.pdf, A75-amplifier.pdf´s for example)
I wouldn´t go for "specialized" book like the ones from Randy Slone or Douglas Self as you´d still need the basics.
I had a very good reading also in the articles from Nelson Pass at Pass DIY.
It covers basic discrete opamps and how mosfets work and much more. (diyopamp.pdf, A75-amplifier.pdf´s for example)
Re: The Art Of Electronics
I have found a few fairly good deals on it on Amazon's "marketplace," but even Amazon's price of $75 with free shipping seems quite good for such a large and comprehensive book. It seems to cover everything I was looking for and then some, but with its last printing in 1989, I'm a bit concerned that a lot of the information, particularly that regarding FET's, IC's (especially digital), and digital circuit design may be outdated. I realized that quite a lot of these things don't change, but new manufacturing processes and simply new uses for various devices have cropped up since then. I'm sure that later I can find some more in-depth and recent books about any specific areas I want to cover without spending too much extra money. Overall, I think this book looks like a good way to start out, even if it's not exactly "current." I'm still open to suggestions, though, and if anybody could recommend a very cheap <$20 book that would serve well as a companion or supplemental for certain areas where this book might fall short, I might consider buying that as well. Thanks guys.
rtirion said:
demons_wing said:
I have found a few fairly good deals on it on Amazon's "marketplace," but even Amazon's price of $75 with free shipping seems quite good for such a large and comprehensive book. It seems to cover everything I was looking for and then some, but with its last printing in 1989, I'm a bit concerned that a lot of the information, particularly that regarding FET's, IC's (especially digital), and digital circuit design may be outdated. I realized that quite a lot of these things don't change, but new manufacturing processes and simply new uses for various devices have cropped up since then. I'm sure that later I can find some more in-depth and recent books about any specific areas I want to cover without spending too much extra money. Overall, I think this book looks like a good way to start out, even if it's not exactly "current." I'm still open to suggestions, though, and if anybody could recommend a very cheap <$20 book that would serve well as a companion or supplemental for certain areas where this book might fall short, I might consider buying that as well. Thanks guys.
I guess I don't know how to put this without sounding like a pompous stuck up member of the board like some people come off as, but I'll try.
Honestly, anyone in the EE/Comp. Eng field will agree with me, the quantity of topics you are asking about is taught in a minimum of 3 semesters of instructor guided work. That means working out problems and examples, homework, tests, quizzes, and lab experiments. For my school, I had to take Analog Electronics I, Analog Electronics II, and a Digital Logic Design class. I actually had to take a few more but that was the core for what you're asking.
The AE I class only managed to cover basic single ended circuits, they put the blocks down for AE II which went into multistage amplifier circuits. These books ,used for AE, also have some digital logic sections in them: "Jaeger, Microelectronic Circuit Design", and "Sedra and Smith, Microelectronic Circuits" I prefer the Sedra Smith one over Jaeger. Both are very excellent books. But, they are college text books and while I don't think that one could not learn it on their own, I do think that I would have had a VERY difficult time studying those books without guidance.
But please keep in mind, these books are focused on theory, not on practice. This does not nearly mean that you can't do your own design. You can go very far with plug and chug simulations and basic knowledge. The equations and topologies for virtually every amplifier configuration is well published even on the net. Plug it into a free SPICE program, ask it to print out the answer to the equation that says "Thd =" and start tweaking values.
Honestly, anyone in the EE/Comp. Eng field will agree with me, the quantity of topics you are asking about is taught in a minimum of 3 semesters of instructor guided work. That means working out problems and examples, homework, tests, quizzes, and lab experiments. For my school, I had to take Analog Electronics I, Analog Electronics II, and a Digital Logic Design class. I actually had to take a few more but that was the core for what you're asking.
The AE I class only managed to cover basic single ended circuits, they put the blocks down for AE II which went into multistage amplifier circuits. These books ,used for AE, also have some digital logic sections in them: "Jaeger, Microelectronic Circuit Design", and "Sedra and Smith, Microelectronic Circuits" I prefer the Sedra Smith one over Jaeger. Both are very excellent books. But, they are college text books and while I don't think that one could not learn it on their own, I do think that I would have had a VERY difficult time studying those books without guidance.
But please keep in mind, these books are focused on theory, not on practice. This does not nearly mean that you can't do your own design. You can go very far with plug and chug simulations and basic knowledge. The equations and topologies for virtually every amplifier configuration is well published even on the net. Plug it into a free SPICE program, ask it to print out the answer to the equation that says "Thd =" and start tweaking values.
The into to Horowitz and Hall indicates that the goal of the book is to educate those who need design knowledge sufficient to construct devices that satisfy limited needs but whose goals do not include becoming full time electronics engineers. Someone who really applies themself can be a bit more sophisticated than trial and error with a Spice simulator, yet have no pretentions to ever becomming a Self, Rowland, Pass or Carver.
There are other fields with analogous cicumstances. Excellent houses have been designed and constructed by single individuals with no credentials as archetects, electricians or plumbers but just the desire ti do and the persistance to learn.
There are other fields with analogous cicumstances. Excellent houses have been designed and constructed by single individuals with no credentials as archetects, electricians or plumbers but just the desire ti do and the persistance to learn.
azira,
You seem to be slightly misunderstanding my goals. I don't expect to be come an expert from reading one book, or even a shelf-full of books, and that's not what I want, anyway. I'm just a beginning hobbyist trying to become a more competent hobbyist and be capable of doing more than just soldering together components on a PCB. While the books you mentioned may or may not be books that I could get through on my own, they cost much more than I want to spend, and being college texts, they are intended to go along with an actually course. I also have no idea on how well-written or easy to follow they are. I am more specifically looking for a book that is intended to be self-taught. And while formal education is far from the only way of learning quite a lot about electronics, I do plan to major in EE, but until I transfer in another year or so, I won't be able to take any type of electronics classes, and I simply do not want to wait that long to get a basic understanding of electronics.
Also, even if it was completely unintentional, your post could certainly be easily interpreted as "snobby." For one thing, the two books you listed were obviously far above my ~$60 price range, and you stated that as college texts, they would be very difficult to study on one's own. As this is very far from what I asked for, I do not see how these would be good suggestions. Secondly, while I certainly respect your education, stating that the only way to get basic knowledge on a broad range of subjects specific to electronics is a minimum of 3 semesters of college courses, labs, etc. is not only untrue but could be interpreted as "I took all these courses to learn what you want to know, so you couldn't possibly learn these things on your own." I am well aware of what courses I need to take, and what is taught in them, so there is no need to give me a course catalog. Now, if after reading my initial request, you still wished to suggest these books that don't really fit my requirements, you could have simply listed the titles and authors, with the qualification that they are college texts and as such are expensive and perhaps difficult to follow. You could then tell me the good/bad points about the particular texts. Instead, the impression I got from reading your post was that you were telling me that I couldn't possibly learn these things without spending 4+ years in an engineering school. Which not only is insulting to me, but to anyone else on this board (and I'm sure there are many) who have worked very hard to teach themselves all they know about electronics.
Now, I'm sure that what I said above was a result of my interpretting your post very differently from the way you intended. This is very easy to do in textual communication because we rely a great deal on inflections in the voice and facial expressions to determine what someone actually means in human communication. Because of this, you have to be very careful about what you write, and try to think about how it might come accross. If you feel the need to include "I don't mean to be..." or "I'm not trying to sound..." in your post, then it probably does sound exactly what you don't want it to sound like. And lastly, "pompous, stuck-up member of the board like some people come off as" does not really seem like a nice thing to say about other members regardless of how one interprets it.
To help clarify what I mean, this message should be read not with an angry, but a slightly offended and defensive tone.
You seem to be slightly misunderstanding my goals. I don't expect to be come an expert from reading one book, or even a shelf-full of books, and that's not what I want, anyway. I'm just a beginning hobbyist trying to become a more competent hobbyist and be capable of doing more than just soldering together components on a PCB. While the books you mentioned may or may not be books that I could get through on my own, they cost much more than I want to spend, and being college texts, they are intended to go along with an actually course. I also have no idea on how well-written or easy to follow they are. I am more specifically looking for a book that is intended to be self-taught. And while formal education is far from the only way of learning quite a lot about electronics, I do plan to major in EE, but until I transfer in another year or so, I won't be able to take any type of electronics classes, and I simply do not want to wait that long to get a basic understanding of electronics.
Also, even if it was completely unintentional, your post could certainly be easily interpreted as "snobby." For one thing, the two books you listed were obviously far above my ~$60 price range, and you stated that as college texts, they would be very difficult to study on one's own. As this is very far from what I asked for, I do not see how these would be good suggestions. Secondly, while I certainly respect your education, stating that the only way to get basic knowledge on a broad range of subjects specific to electronics is a minimum of 3 semesters of college courses, labs, etc. is not only untrue but could be interpreted as "I took all these courses to learn what you want to know, so you couldn't possibly learn these things on your own." I am well aware of what courses I need to take, and what is taught in them, so there is no need to give me a course catalog. Now, if after reading my initial request, you still wished to suggest these books that don't really fit my requirements, you could have simply listed the titles and authors, with the qualification that they are college texts and as such are expensive and perhaps difficult to follow. You could then tell me the good/bad points about the particular texts. Instead, the impression I got from reading your post was that you were telling me that I couldn't possibly learn these things without spending 4+ years in an engineering school. Which not only is insulting to me, but to anyone else on this board (and I'm sure there are many) who have worked very hard to teach themselves all they know about electronics.
Now, I'm sure that what I said above was a result of my interpretting your post very differently from the way you intended. This is very easy to do in textual communication because we rely a great deal on inflections in the voice and facial expressions to determine what someone actually means in human communication. Because of this, you have to be very careful about what you write, and try to think about how it might come accross. If you feel the need to include "I don't mean to be..." or "I'm not trying to sound..." in your post, then it probably does sound exactly what you don't want it to sound like. And lastly, "pompous, stuck-up member of the board like some people come off as" does not really seem like a nice thing to say about other members regardless of how one interprets it.
To help clarify what I mean, this message should be read not with an angry, but a slightly offended and defensive tone.
Buy H&H. It is the best overall book for you. Get it used, if you can. I cannot advise better, it is NOT out of date.
Ditto H&H and is is in many if not most libraries. About half concerns digital circuits which you can skip over if it does not interest you just now. The fact that it isused as a text is an advantage since you are more likely to find cheap used copies at used bookstores near campuses.
Different people learn in different fashions. My suggestion as someone with no technical education is not to get bogged down. If something seems really dense, just go past it but try to remember the general nature of the topic. I find many things are not immeadiately clear become clear on re-reading later when they have an actual application for me.
H&H is also very good at explaining the WHY of certain equations that you absolutely must have. This is good for me because I'm hopeless at remembering unconnected things. Two examples: Many, many books will tell you the equation for calculating parallel resistances and while it's simple I just can't remember it, but H&H explains it as a sum of conductances and all you have to do is replace conducnce with the the inverse of resistance and then invert the whole mess. (This sounds complicated but it is but you can do it in your head.) Another example is voltage dividers. There are zillions of explanations written that just don't sink in but H&H shows how it is a simple consequence of Ohm's law. In both cases if you understand the principle you don't need to remember the equation because it takes just a few seconds to reconstruct the equation.
Anyway, you don't have to understand everything in the book to get great value from it. (It's also a good source for explaining what all those intimidating curly w's and j's are. It's like Nietzsche said about German poets: "They muddy the waters to make them appear deep."
Different people learn in different fashions. My suggestion as someone with no technical education is not to get bogged down. If something seems really dense, just go past it but try to remember the general nature of the topic. I find many things are not immeadiately clear become clear on re-reading later when they have an actual application for me.
H&H is also very good at explaining the WHY of certain equations that you absolutely must have. This is good for me because I'm hopeless at remembering unconnected things. Two examples: Many, many books will tell you the equation for calculating parallel resistances and while it's simple I just can't remember it, but H&H explains it as a sum of conductances and all you have to do is replace conducnce with the the inverse of resistance and then invert the whole mess. (This sounds complicated but it is but you can do it in your head.) Another example is voltage dividers. There are zillions of explanations written that just don't sink in but H&H shows how it is a simple consequence of Ohm's law. In both cases if you understand the principle you don't need to remember the equation because it takes just a few seconds to reconstruct the equation.
Anyway, you don't have to understand everything in the book to get great value from it. (It's also a good source for explaining what all those intimidating curly w's and j's are. It's like Nietzsche said about German poets: "They muddy the waters to make them appear deep."
Try to search this forum. You can learn a lot, because you find here posts written by VIPs in audio bussiness like AKSA, Pass, Curl, Hansen and links to Hawksford's and Cordell's articles.
http://wes.feec.vutbr.cz/~gratz/Download/Cordell.ZIP
http://wes.feec.vutbr.cz/~gratz/Download/Cordell.ZIP
Aside from the predictable plug for Horowitz and Hill (I agree that it is not out of date), there's an interesting little volume available on Walt Jung's website called something like "IC Arrays." Don't be put off by the title--it's not about chip opamps. Whereas H&H might mention current sources and give one or two examples, the Jung book will give five and discuss pros and cons for each design. No, it's not an entry level text; read it after the first half-dozen chapters of H&H. Considering that it's a free PDF, it's well worth the cost.
As someone mentioned above, read Nelson's stuff.
Oddly enough, you can glean interesting tidbits from semiconductor application notes and such. The writing is sometimes poor and there's often a high percentage of chaff-to-wheat (for some reason they tend to explain all the wrong things), but again, it's free.
I can't say that I'm a big fan of Self and Slone. Given a choice between the two, I'd say Self, but they're both so narrow minded that reading either book is like learning all there is to know about making a salad fork. Salad forks are great, mind you, but I like having a knife and a spoon handy, too. Not to mention a regular fork.
In the long run, there's nothing like building a few circuits and changing things. When the circuit quits working, you know you've gone too far. Back up and go the other direction. When it quits working that way, go in another direction. That way you learn something about the envelope where things work best.
Beware of those who beat their breasts and yell that there's only one way to build a circuit and that's their way. Arrogance has yet to build a circuit. An open mind and willingness to fail will serve you much better. Nobody says you've got to get it right the first time...or the second, for that matter. Patience is the key.
Grey
As someone mentioned above, read Nelson's stuff.
Oddly enough, you can glean interesting tidbits from semiconductor application notes and such. The writing is sometimes poor and there's often a high percentage of chaff-to-wheat (for some reason they tend to explain all the wrong things), but again, it's free.
I can't say that I'm a big fan of Self and Slone. Given a choice between the two, I'd say Self, but they're both so narrow minded that reading either book is like learning all there is to know about making a salad fork. Salad forks are great, mind you, but I like having a knife and a spoon handy, too. Not to mention a regular fork.
In the long run, there's nothing like building a few circuits and changing things. When the circuit quits working, you know you've gone too far. Back up and go the other direction. When it quits working that way, go in another direction. That way you learn something about the envelope where things work best.
Beware of those who beat their breasts and yell that there's only one way to build a circuit and that's their way. Arrogance has yet to build a circuit. An open mind and willingness to fail will serve you much better. Nobody says you've got to get it right the first time...or the second, for that matter. Patience is the key.
Grey
Try to search this forum. You can learn a lot, because you find here posts written by VIPs in audio bussiness like AKSA, Pass, Curl, Hansen and links to Hawksford's and Cordell's articles.
http://wes.feec.vutbr.cz/~gratz/Download/Cordell.ZIP
http://wes.feec.vutbr.cz/~gratz/Download/Cordell.ZIP
if you dont mind buying used...
http://half.ebay.com/cat/buy/prod.cgi?cpid=265883&domain_id=1856&meta_id=1
http://half.ebay.com/cat/buy/prod.cgi?cpid=265883&domain_id=1856&meta_id=1
GRollins said:
I couldn't find the specific PDF you were talking about on walt jung's site, but I did download a few others that looked interesting. Regarding Nelson's articles, on passdiy.com, there are only four listed. On pass labs, there are several more, but I'm fairly certain Mr. Pass has written more articles than these. The passdiy website won't let me list the /pdf directory, so I can't see or download whatever else might be in there.
tpenguin said:
Then you assume that graduating college makes you an expert and that is far from truth, it makes you a beginner with some knowledge. I did not misinterpret your goal. Secondly, I did not say "this is what I took" I said, any college is going to have their students learn this information over a minimum of 3 semesters. As an example, I used the course sequence from my college since other colleges have different names for the courses.
tpenguin said:
I apologize. Firstly, it is indeed expensive to purchase new, but often through Amazon or used college text store you can find these books in your price range. Both books cover similar topics, they are effectively competing products. They start with fundamental diode / PN junction behavior, derive characteristic equations from the physics of charge carriers and then transition into Bipolar junction transistors because BJTs are very similar to diodes. Next they cover mosfets and develop single ended amplification behaviors of both BJTs and FETS. They also describe using either one as a "switch" in terms of operating characteristics and efficiency. Then they transition into multitransistor amplifier topologies, discuss current mirrors, and get into multistage amplifiers. Next is feedback, freq response, compensation. And lastly is digital electronics including how A/D and D/A convertors are built. I suggested both books because together, they are used by a significant majority of the Analog Electronics courses in the nation. They are both well known. I read Self's book to find the merits of topologies, but I read Sedra/Smith to determine exactly what each component in a chosen topology does.
It comes down to what you are really interested in learning. If you want to know theory, it's training, guided steps, and lots of work, there really isn't any way around that. Learning electronics is learning math with easier visualizations. If it's practice and competence in amplifiers, then there are enough identicle Free circuits with slightly different components to figure out by example how things work. I'm just a theory person...
Link below leads you to some basic information.
http://www.electronics-tutorials.com/
Here you are Walt's publications.
http://home.comcast.net/~walt-jung/...ml-TopRes-Electronic-20Design-20Archives.html
http://www.elecdesign.com/Globals/PlanetEE/Content/1518.html
http://www.electronics-tutorials.com/
Here you are Walt's publications.
http://home.comcast.net/~walt-jung/...ml-TopRes-Electronic-20Design-20Archives.html
http://www.elecdesign.com/Globals/PlanetEE/Content/1518.html
The proper name for Walt Jung's book is "IC Array Cookbook." Unfortunately, his website seems to have been updated since I last saw it and the link for the PDF version of the book is indeed missing. Perhaps you can find a copy of the actual book on the used market. I can't imagine that it would be very expensive since it's "obsolete" by now. I use obsolete in the sense that the circuits shown in the book are based on chips comprised of discrete transistors that have long since been superceded by better devices. (Think in terms of the dual JFETs (e.g. 2SK389 or 2SJ109), or dual bipolar devices available on the same chip, only these chips had four or five devices per chip.) In any event, the circuit topologies are still quite valid.
It's not so much that Nelson has written a lot of articles in the theory sense, it's the stuff he crams into the niches of the construction projects. The A-75 project is particularly interesting in this regard.
Grey
It's not so much that Nelson has written a lot of articles in the theory sense, it's the stuff he crams into the niches of the construction projects. The A-75 project is particularly interesting in this regard.
Grey
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