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This was challenging. My photos shown here are prior to this recent development. The distance from the pillar to the spindle for the WT Simplex should be 9.2". I placed a triangle parallel to the center groove of a record. If I visually trace a line from the center groove of a record, that's where I should place the silicon pot under the suspension arm grommet. My WT Turntable (original) has the suspension system perpendicular to the center groove. If I twist my Simplex clone suspension arm parallel to the triangle I laid down (by eye), the pivot measures 8.50" to the center of the suspension arm. 8.5" is equal to 216mm = the desired mounting distance of the WT Reference arm. Is it really that simple.
That said, my brother in law is concerned that he won't be able to operate the rear arm. I told him he won't be able to touch that one… he accidentally took out my Benz Glider that had only one night's play on its' rebuilt ruby cantilever. ;-( It's back and he paid for it… but he needs to be punished a little longer. ;-)
This was challenging. My photos shown here are prior to this recent development. The distance from the pillar to the spindle for the WT Simplex should be 9.2". I placed a triangle parallel to the center groove of a record. If I visually trace a line from the center groove of a record, that's where I should place the silicon pot under the suspension arm grommet. My WT Turntable (original) has the suspension system perpendicular to the center groove. If I twist my Simplex clone suspension arm parallel to the triangle I laid down (by eye), the pivot measures 8.50" to the center of the suspension arm. 8.5" is equal to 216mm = the desired mounting distance of the WT Reference arm. Is it really that simple.
That said, my brother in law is concerned that he won't be able to operate the rear arm. I told him he won't be able to touch that one… he accidentally took out my Benz Glider that had only one night's play on its' rebuilt ruby cantilever. ;-( It's back and he paid for it… but he needs to be punished a little longer. ;-)
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Does anyone have a source for suspension springs and rubber motor isolators for Neat turntables? My Neat has 2 of the 3 suspension springs and the rubber suspension grommets for motor isolation are sort of barrel shaped, about 5/8" or so tall. These might not be original. I imagine they should be wedged between 2 surfaces to help with motor vibration, not floating sorta freely within the springs. I don't know what the originals shield look like, Thorens mushrooms or suspension grommets? I think a stack of Sorbothane bushings might work well for this isolation application. Anyone tried them?
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I found a Neat P58H photo that shows a lube line going to the top of the motor as well as one going to the bottom of the motor. The next time I take the unit off its plinth I'll look at the motors top to see if I can find the second stub. Thanks.
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I just found the original set up guide for the WTT Classic, which also shows a spindle to pillar distance of 9.2"
I just found the original set up guide for the WTT Classic, which also shows a spindle to pillar distance of 9.2"
Woo hoo! Found the second lube stub and attached the tubing - what a chore that was, but it's done. I also found that the motor was only held on with 2 of 4 nuts, so that's done as well. The idler wheel returned fro Terry and the table runs quite quietly, even with only 2 of the 3 suspension springs and 3 less than stellar rubber grommets.
This Shield MO-19 doesn't seems to use mushroom style grommets. The rubber grommets are about 5/8" tall donut cylinders that fit around long screws that run thru the suspension springs to the top and down to a plate that connects to a top motor plate (I hope I have this right). The springs extend from the weight and the rubber grommets sit on the plate below top surface without making contact with the upper plate. They might make contact if there were 3 suspension spring rather than just the 2. Perhaps replacing them with Sorbothane bushings might offer some isolation once I locate another spring. Anyone have a source for springs for these babies?
This Shield MO-19 doesn't seems to use mushroom style grommets. The rubber grommets are about 5/8" tall donut cylinders that fit around long screws that run thru the suspension springs to the top and down to a plate that connects to a top motor plate (I hope I have this right). The springs extend from the weight and the rubber grommets sit on the plate below top surface without making contact with the upper plate. They might make contact if there were 3 suspension spring rather than just the 2. Perhaps replacing them with Sorbothane bushings might offer some isolation once I locate another spring. Anyone have a source for springs for these babies?
The Neat Shield MO-19 lives! The first play with my WT tonearm Simplex mod roughed in worked very well. I don't have the silicon pot in place yet so that I can remove the arm and work on the suspension, but it worked as good as I hoped it would. ;-) The bass is stunning and soundstage fantastic - I have an original Sumiko Blue Point from the 1990's on it and it's performing quite well. The arm swings too easily without the fluid damping so I'll get that in place as soon as I can and send up some pics. Thanks everyone.
Finding a replacement spring (or 3 new ones) and installing Sorbothane bushings are my last steps for this project.
Finding a replacement spring (or 3 new ones) and installing Sorbothane bushings are my last steps for this project.
Gave the Neat a test drive today and I'm picking up considerable low frequency hum or resonance. I'm using a new Ortofon 2M Red MM cartridge. I lifted my damping pot and put Sorbothane under it. Hum is still there. Could the spring I modified for the suspension be too stiff and transferring motor vibration into the platter? Of the 3 suspension springs, this one is closest to the idler wheel. The other day I tested it without the damping pot. Even though the arm moved back and forth in the groove, and though it's cantilever had collapsed and the body was dragging on the record surface, the dynamics were stunning - I didn't hear any resonant hum, though there was some right side grunge because the cartridge was dragging. I haven't lubricated the motor - would this create added resonance? What oil do you recommend? Any ideas?
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I switched out the cartridge to rule out cartridge damage. I even tried an Audioquest Sorbothane platter mat (always hated how that mat sucked the life out of a recording). There's still low level vibration or low resonance happening.
Here are some pics of the table with my modified WT arm.
I switched out the cartridge to rule out cartridge damage. I even tried an Audioquest Sorbothane platter mat (always hated how that mat sucked the life out of a recording). There's still low level vibration or low resonance happening.
Here are some pics of the table with my modified WT arm.
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The Neat Shield MO-19 is working fine now. After replacing the new modified spring with one of lighter duty and inserting a small grommet of Sorbothane tube around the rod, the heavy vibrations disappeared. The original spring I modified was causing the rod to touch the deck. On the underside, I added four 1" diameter wooden dowels with Sorbothane disks at each end that push against the motor and plinth - that seemed to help quiet motor vibration of the a bit more. While there is still a tiny bit of low level vibration, it doesn't get in the way of the music. The next step is finding a 12" arm for the primary position.
I now know the idler appeal - it's so musical. I am floored by the bass and tight transients. This table's a beauty… I am honored to have such a wonderful piece of history come into my life. Thanks for helping me get here!
The Neat Shield MO-19 is working fine now. After replacing the new modified spring with one of lighter duty and inserting a small grommet of Sorbothane tube around the rod, the heavy vibrations disappeared. The original spring I modified was causing the rod to touch the deck. On the underside, I added four 1" diameter wooden dowels with Sorbothane disks at each end that push against the motor and plinth - that seemed to help quiet motor vibration of the a bit more. While there is still a tiny bit of low level vibration, it doesn't get in the way of the music. The next step is finding a 12" arm for the primary position.
I now know the idler appeal - it's so musical. I am floored by the bass and tight transients. This table's a beauty… I am honored to have such a wonderful piece of history come into my life. Thanks for helping me get here!
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My platter spins freely.I he Neat sounds great. Is there any reason to take apart and lubricate the bearing? If so, what is the proper procedure for disassembly and what type of oil should I be looking at? There are 3 screws on the top of the platter bearing and there is no stub end for lubrication - I hesitate loosening the screws for fear of causing platter wobble.
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I made this 12" Well Tempered style arm for my Neat Shield MO-19's primary position. Carbon fiber arm, Currently wired with Litz copper wire and arm filled with hermit crab sand and sealed with wax, temp headshell from a Kenwood, brass bases for both the arm and rest. The golf ball is drilled and screwed to one of two set screw holes in the shaft collar, allowing pivot length adjustment.
Because the arm is highly adjustable, I was able to set it up in a traditional way with offset angle and as underhang with the cartridge parallel to the arm. It sounded quite good with overhang but exhibited some skating artifacts. It sounds amazing now set up for underhang - no skate effect to deal with. I hope to craft a headshell that can cut a bit of the pivot length so that more of the base returns to sit on the plinth.
I made this 12" Well Tempered style arm for my Neat Shield MO-19's primary position. Carbon fiber arm, Currently wired with Litz copper wire and arm filled with hermit crab sand and sealed with wax, temp headshell from a Kenwood, brass bases for both the arm and rest. The golf ball is drilled and screwed to one of two set screw holes in the shaft collar, allowing pivot length adjustment.
Because the arm is highly adjustable, I was able to set it up in a traditional way with offset angle and as underhang with the cartridge parallel to the arm. It sounded quite good with overhang but exhibited some skating artifacts. It sounds amazing now set up for underhang - no skate effect to deal with. I hope to craft a headshell that can cut a bit of the pivot length so that more of the base returns to sit on the plinth.
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My Neat Shield MO-19 was missing one of the three motor suspension springs when I round it. They have been a bear to find... I've searched often over the past year. I've tried making some compression springs as well, but they aren't perfect and the motor mount rods list a bit and cause a bit of contact with the wall of one or two of the suspension's wells, which translates to low level hum.
I FINALLY found that I needed to search for 'conical' compression springs rather than 'tapered.' I found 3 different springs that are now on their way - 1/2" h, 5/8" h and a taller one to cut down. One should work - I'll replace all 3 of the springs at one time. Getting to the springs is a cursed job so I only want to do it one more time! An angle nosed plier helps.
Once that's done, I'll rewire the arm with silver-plated 36awg with a new slimmer headshell.
I FINALLY found that I needed to search for 'conical' compression springs rather than 'tapered.' I found 3 different springs that are now on their way - 1/2" h, 5/8" h and a taller one to cut down. One should work - I'll replace all 3 of the springs at one time. Getting to the springs is a cursed job so I only want to do it one more time! An angle nosed plier helps.
Once that's done, I'll rewire the arm with silver-plated 36awg with a new slimmer headshell.
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Months ago I bought these 'Isolate It' Sorbothane bushings… I thought I’d be able to use them for motor mounts… or something on the Neat.
Today, while trying once again to remove those tiny lock washers to replace the 3 motor suspension springs in the wells (I finally found replacement springs!), I cut off the tops of the bushings and inserted them around the tops of the spring assemblies. I had no real faith that they would work, but they seem to have tamed the vibrations from the motor that translate as a low hum. I put the blank track from the Cardas LP on and turned the volume up to 12. All I heard was stylus drag from the vinyl… no low hum at all. I'm stunned!
Months ago I bought these 'Isolate It' Sorbothane bushings… I thought I’d be able to use them for motor mounts… or something on the Neat.
Today, while trying once again to remove those tiny lock washers to replace the 3 motor suspension springs in the wells (I finally found replacement springs!), I cut off the tops of the bushings and inserted them around the tops of the spring assemblies. I had no real faith that they would work, but they seem to have tamed the vibrations from the motor that translate as a low hum. I put the blank track from the Cardas LP on and turned the volume up to 12. All I heard was stylus drag from the vinyl… no low hum at all. I'm stunned!
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