Good to see more people coming around to the pro-mobile drivers for super compact. Beastly is what I always called them. From my point of view, there is beauty in the engineering that goes towards a super compact but prodigious result and fridges and washing machine class are ugly
Congrats and all the best
A single one of the cheapest of the JL Audio 12W0 can do lower than this and match that output with only a clean 500w dynamic capable power amp in the car, and the sound quality is gorgeous with the bass driven non-rock coloured genres. Highly recommend their drivers for effortless quality and output out of very small boxes. Can take a daily punishment under tropical conditions too
How much difference do you feel there would be if the subs were turned off in a system that contained mains that rolled off at 60Hz?
Um, probably not. The 125dB all the way down to 40 Hz is a 2PI estimate, not an in-car estimate (I already have two Alpine 12D2s running off that same 1.2kW amp to fill that requirement). The only reason they're going to be in-car is when I'm transporting them 🙂.
Of course, you'd hear a difference if the subs are turned off, but guess what, the question is not if there would be a difference, it's if the difference would make a difference to the audience, e.g. are people going to complain or leave because the bass does not go down lower? I guess it would depend on the audience, but I've seen many get-togethers where the audience is perfectly happy with the sound provided by 12x1 pole-mounted "tops" or something similar that are not going to reach down that low.
To the OP, please don't mind the side chat
In 2012, I moved to a small island nation and worked as a weddings and functions Dj. I took a JL 12W0 for the Volvo 850R that I picked up. It did well to draw attention and increase bookings
There is a sensible reason for this;
Where I was working, the local DJs and entertainers use a pair or more of Samson 15" two-ways. These are sold on affordable terms by the local home and electrical goods chain. I have a pair there too. These don't have much below 60Hz. The local music scene is Reggae/West Indian/Bollywood/Top 40 Pop based
The locals are all familiar with the local "PA Sound". It's louder than what they have at home. Totally happy as you say. But then I drive into town with the bass pumping and in Puma DJ attire and when folks feel the thumping basslines, they come up to check out and talk and makes for a lot of new work. They get the same heavy bass experience at the gig and the feedback on that is always amazing and along the lines of rebooking due to my PA sounding so much better
The reason for my Samson pair being so impressive? The array of 6 subwoofer sections from the THX rated and tested Logitech z623 gaming system placed under the DJ desk 😀
I have observed that people definitely notice and appreciate the difference. The amount of heads and bodies moving to the basslines is a tell too
I have just taken a fly out 5 day booking for an Indian wedding gig in June (these run over 5 days). For this one, I am flying out with my Volcano Soundsystem under build based on a 12" 2kw pro-mobile sub. My new mains are also pro-mobile based using a pair of HO coax that also roll off around 60Hz. Mains of this size are more then plenty for the fairly small size of these functions. Most are on the lawn+porch type
My old setup is still in storage there at my inlaws but this time, taking the Volcano Soundsystem with one of its subs. Each sub will fit ina transport case together with a spare amp modules (intergrated mains PSU on the module, sub runs two 750wrms modules per driver, one per VC) plus all assocaited cables and such. And one transport case for the mains pair + DJ controller. One extra transport case to hold my JDXI synth and MX-1 mixer for local use here in Au
All 6 cases are sized to fit inside my lil Subaru XV here. Thats 4x 2kw high output and big low bass subs plus a lot of digital console gear there and the mains. Makes for an easy fly out too as we are able to add multiple luggage peices max 30kg each for $50 each while booking a flight. Each sub driver weighs 17kg on its own and expected to make that max weight once packed. Two trasport cases for fly out and six cases for local Au use
I am not liking this sub rolling off 70Hz thing. Why bother making it as a poor bass depth sub (super woofer, really) when adding a second woofer to the mains would do the same job of augmenting only the upper bass? If the answer is to have very compact mains and move the woofer to a faux sub role, then why not use an actual capable driver in that 50L cab? That is a huge volume for many pro-mobile 12" subwoofer drivers. My 25yr old 35L 12W7 car sub exceeds 120dB comfortably when placed on the car park surface
Ah!
In 2012, I moved to a small island nation and worked as a weddings and functions Dj. I took a JL 12W0 for the Volvo 850R that I picked up. It did well to draw attention and increase bookings
There is a sensible reason for this;
I feel compelled to address this further with that sensible reason
Where I was working, the local DJs and entertainers use a pair or more of Samson 15" two-ways. These are sold on affordable terms by the local home and electrical goods chain. I have a pair there too. These don't have much below 60Hz. The local music scene is Reggae/West Indian/Bollywood/Top 40 Pop based
The locals are all familiar with the local "PA Sound". It's louder than what they have at home. Totally happy as you say. But then I drive into town with the bass pumping and in Puma DJ attire and when folks feel the thumping basslines, they come up to check out and talk and makes for a lot of new work. They get the same heavy bass experience at the gig and the feedback on that is always amazing and along the lines of rebooking due to my PA sounding so much better
The reason for my Samson pair being so impressive? The array of 6 subwoofer sections from the THX rated and tested Logitech z623 gaming system placed under the DJ desk 😀
I have observed that people definitely notice and appreciate the difference. The amount of heads and bodies moving to the basslines is a tell too
I have just taken a fly out 5 day booking for an Indian wedding gig in June (these run over 5 days). For this one, I am flying out with my Volcano Soundsystem under build based on a 12" 2kw pro-mobile sub. My new mains are also pro-mobile based using a pair of HO coax that also roll off around 60Hz. Mains of this size are more then plenty for the fairly small size of these functions. Most are on the lawn+porch type
My old setup is still in storage there at my inlaws but this time, taking the Volcano Soundsystem with one of its subs. Each sub will fit ina transport case together with a spare amp modules (intergrated mains PSU on the module, sub runs two 750wrms modules per driver, one per VC) plus all assocaited cables and such. And one transport case for the mains pair + DJ controller. One extra transport case to hold my JDXI synth and MX-1 mixer for local use here in Au
All 6 cases are sized to fit inside my lil Subaru XV here. Thats 4x 2kw high output and big low bass subs plus a lot of digital console gear there and the mains. Makes for an easy fly out too as we are able to add multiple luggage peices max 30kg each for $50 each while booking a flight. Each sub driver weighs 17kg on its own and expected to make that max weight once packed. Two trasport cases for fly out and six cases for local Au use
I am not liking this sub rolling off 70Hz thing. Why bother making it as a poor bass depth sub (super woofer, really) when adding a second woofer to the mains would do the same job of augmenting only the upper bass? If the answer is to have very compact mains and move the woofer to a faux sub role, then why not use an actual capable driver in that 50L cab? That is a huge volume for many pro-mobile 12" subwoofer drivers. My 25yr old 35L 12W7 car sub exceeds 120dB comfortably when placed on the car park surface
Do you have a cab volume limit?!(Litres)
Cause there is the PAL12 TH plan over here.
It was designed for the LAB12 driver.
Operating frequency: 34Hz----120Hz +/-3db
Dimensions: 30"x38"x15"
Impedance: 4 ohms
Power handling: 400w rms, 800w program High pass 32Hz 24db/octave
Cause there is the PAL12 TH plan over here.
It was designed for the LAB12 driver.
Operating frequency: 34Hz----120Hz +/-3db
Dimensions: 30"x38"x15"
Impedance: 4 ohms
Power handling: 400w rms, 800w program High pass 32Hz 24db/octave
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Hmm....
Ok, going by the published specs for the latest version of the 12W7 and assuming Le of around 3mH, Hornresp predicts that it could hit a peak of around 123 dB in a 35L (sealed) enclosure without hitting Xmax at Fb (46 Hz) or above. However, that peak occurs at 78 Hz (not really subwoofer territory) and you'll have to hit the driver with 2.8 kW, almost 3 times its rated power to achieve it. I suspect that if you run it at that level, it's probably not going to last that long at "war" volume. At its rated 1kW max input, output at 78 Hz is 118 dB and at 40 Hz it is 112 dB (6dB down). The 12W7AE-3 costs US$1.400 at Sonic Electronix.
In comparison, one Dayton Audio 12LF400-8 in the 64.2 net MLTL alignment I suggested will do at or above 120dB from 42 Hz up and above with about 500W of input, 100W above its RMS rating but well below its max rating of 800W. The response is basically flat down to 42 Hz and 119dB at 40 Hz, 7dB more than the 12W7 build. The 12LF400-8 currently costs $125 at Parts Express.
Yes, the net volume of the Dayton option is almost twice as large, but I know which one of those solutions I'd choose, and it won't even be close 🙂
Now, you could say that's cheating - I'm comparing a sealed alignment to a vented alignment. Well, a 12W7 in a 64L vented alignment does look Ok if Fb is around 30 Hz - the 40 Hz and above performance almost matches that of the Dayton-based design, and the 12W7 design will provide more output below 40 Hz. However, it will still need to be fed up to its Pmax to do so, reducing its survivability, and it costs over 11 times the cost of the Dayton, so I doubt that I'd choose differently.
We are far from where the thread started, but please carry on if you wish.
My main interest was some feedback on the measurements and the method. I got that so thank you..
My main interest was some feedback on the measurements and the method. I got that so thank you..
Not sealed. 35Hz tune ported with 35L for driver and a very skinny slot port. Made by multi award-winning SQ and DB Drag champ installer in Sydney over 25yrs ago. Bear in mind, JL Audio themselves caution against sims and specs for prejudging the drivers. These class of drivers need to be measured ina box to get a real measurement. Also, with subs, have to consider the dynamic output ability of the amps being used and the dynamic handling ability of the driver. In real world use, the 12W07 comes alive when given 2kw dynamic. Also, survived 7yrs in my taxi and max abuse
The JL is an example of what was possible 25yrs ago in compact. The contender for my Volcano sub is a DS18 ZXI12D2 and target is sub 40L ported. There is a thread about that somewhere. Amp module per VC 750wrms/1400w dynamic rated
Well worth every cent they are asking, but I can't afford to replace it when it finally dies. It is note beautiful at full output hour after hour
Here is a thing a lot of folks are forgetting, the 4th twiddle on the iron law can be the $$ as back in the day with the JL. Hoping the ZXI can beat that for a fraction of the price of the JL
64L is huge