Hi all. I have a question re. a possible design change to a vintage stylus I have and am hoping someone can shed some light on it.
With reference to the attached photograph:
I have a Nagaoka MP11 boron cartridge that I have had since about 1983 and a few weeks ago I decided I would like to start listening to it once again, but long story short, in the process of swapping headshells I dropped it and damaged the stylus.
Anyhow the desire to hear it play once again did not abate and I managed to track down a second-hand example and bought it. On comparing the styli I find that they are significantly different. My original one, on the left is a plain tubular design, flattened off at the tip, whereas the replacement example has a shaft mounted into a collar near the base and has no flattening of at the tip at all.
These seem to be very different designs and I find it strange to find that they are both designated the same model number - MP11 Boron. Surely such different approaches to presentation of the tip must result in significant differences in performance?
Can anyone explain what I am seeing here, or shed any light onto the history of this cartridge/stylus?
Thank you and regards.
With reference to the attached photograph:
I have a Nagaoka MP11 boron cartridge that I have had since about 1983 and a few weeks ago I decided I would like to start listening to it once again, but long story short, in the process of swapping headshells I dropped it and damaged the stylus.
Anyhow the desire to hear it play once again did not abate and I managed to track down a second-hand example and bought it. On comparing the styli I find that they are significantly different. My original one, on the left is a plain tubular design, flattened off at the tip, whereas the replacement example has a shaft mounted into a collar near the base and has no flattening of at the tip at all.
These seem to be very different designs and I find it strange to find that they are both designated the same model number - MP11 Boron. Surely such different approaches to presentation of the tip must result in significant differences in performance?
Can anyone explain what I am seeing here, or shed any light onto the history of this cartridge/stylus?
Thank you and regards.
Attachments
Hi,
How do you know the replacement is an original stylus ?
It looks like some retips I've seen on MC's typically,
where the cantilever is chopped and a thinner one
is glued into it, if so its unusual for a MM.
rgds, sreten.
How do you know the replacement is an original stylus ?
It looks like some retips I've seen on MC's typically,
where the cantilever is chopped and a thinner one
is glued into it, if so its unusual for a MM.
rgds, sreten.
The one on the right looks like the stylus and cantilever have been replaced. Looks a lot like the way Sound Smith does it.
The stylus on the right looks like a boron cantilever from Nagaoka as they currently make them. The attached image shows the stylus of a MP200, which has a boron cantilever.
The stylus on the left looks like an ordinary aluminum tube cantilever, which can be bent. IMHO you can't bend a boron cantilever; it breaks instead.
Therefore I would say that you did not have a boron cantilever before but now you have one.
The stylus on the left looks like an ordinary aluminum tube cantilever, which can be bent. IMHO you can't bend a boron cantilever; it breaks instead.
Therefore I would say that you did not have a boron cantilever before but now you have one.
Attachments
I agree: I once had an MP11 Boron stylus (I mounted it on an MP10 body) and it looked like the one on the right. The stylus on the left even looks as though it might be an aftermarket substitute, perhaps with a bushed, rather than nude, diamond.
Mark
Mark
Going to contradict my earlier comment and say I would agree with the above three comments, I'm not very familiar with the MP11.
Hi,
I do agree the one on the left doesn't look up to much,
and certainly if its not badged its probably aftermarket.
rgds, sreten.
I do agree the one on the left doesn't look up to much,
and certainly if its not badged its probably aftermarket.
rgds, sreten.
It's all very bizarre. Attached is another photograph of the original, with it's original packaging, which I personally bought at a very reputable and still very well respected dealer in the UK. The moulding and boron logo is identical to the replacement in every respect, only the cantilever differs.
BTW it is a hardened aluminum cantilever, the reference to boron is to do only with the way the diamond is mounted.
All of the images I have found on the web match the configuration of my replacement stylus. I just find it odd that they would make such a major change to the cantilever, which to my mind must have affected the performance in a noticeable way and yet they did not re-badge it as a different model; a MKII for example.
Excepts from the original specification also attached.
BTW it is a hardened aluminum cantilever, the reference to boron is to do only with the way the diamond is mounted.
All of the images I have found on the web match the configuration of my replacement stylus. I just find it odd that they would make such a major change to the cantilever, which to my mind must have affected the performance in a noticeable way and yet they did not re-badge it as a different model; a MKII for example.
Excepts from the original specification also attached.
Attachments
Thanks for posting this. I didn't know that about the original MP11 boron stylus.
So, yes, it seems they have changed the cantilever and the stylus. I would guess that they did this for replacement styli. I certainly wouldn't be worried about your new stylus. I would expect it to be better than the original, because it has a nude diamond instead of a small (non-oriented) diamond chip bonded to a piece of boron.
The broken cantilever of the left diamond on your first photo is not boron, it is simple aluminium tube, like what it is employed on the cheap replacement parts.
You can look at the Technics EPC310MC cartridge, it is a boron cantilever too (not removable, so obviously original).
It looks like the boron cantilever of the right diamond on the photo.
You can look at the Technics EPC310MC cartridge, it is a boron cantilever too (not removable, so obviously original).
It looks like the boron cantilever of the right diamond on the photo.
… and I am now very tempted to say that your first MP11 BORON is a fake. The manual of the MP-11 BORON is available at vinylengine.com and it clearly states that the MP-11 BORON has a boron cantilever. Therefore my idea that they later provided a different stylus was wrong.
I suggest to be happy with your new and correct MP-11 BORON stylus …
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I have had exactly the same thing happen to me when I recently bought a new-old-stock MP11 boron stylus.
The new one looked a lot different to the original. The original had the diamond bonded to a boron shank whereas the new one is a nude diamond.
The original was meant to be an eliptical stylus but looked almost conical through a microscope. The new one looks to be a much more complex profile, almost a fine fine profile simialr to my Orton MC2FL. It also has the black cantilever rather than the original bent aluminium one.
My original one from a main dealer back in 1984.
They must have upped the specs in the past but never listed the changes.
The new black cantilever one sounds superb....very close to my Denon DL304 which was 10x the price.
Very impressed with the MP11 boron. It really is a giany killer.
The new one looked a lot different to the original. The original had the diamond bonded to a boron shank whereas the new one is a nude diamond.
The original was meant to be an eliptical stylus but looked almost conical through a microscope. The new one looks to be a much more complex profile, almost a fine fine profile simialr to my Orton MC2FL. It also has the black cantilever rather than the original bent aluminium one.
My original one from a main dealer back in 1984.
They must have upped the specs in the past but never listed the changes.
The new black cantilever one sounds superb....very close to my Denon DL304 which was 10x the price.
Very impressed with the MP11 boron. It really is a giany killer.
