Thank You a lot for your many posts about the chemical properties.
You really represent some of few people that know what they need to consider when talking
about the composition and its behavior.
I like to add that to my knowlegde our various record compositions consist
of just about 80% PVC and below 20% Polyvinylacetate and a small percentage
of various additives including carbon for the black records.
Some of the additives are needed for its properties in the heating up and pressing
process in the machinery, some antistatic is wanted not only from the enduser’s
Perspective but for the whole production and handling process there.
A lot of the suppliers keep the specifics of their Granulate quite secret
and I would hope that this could change a little bit for lifting the level
we are able to discuss properties…
Things I learned in my line of work is:
One reason alcohol is not so welcomed scientifically for the cleaning
process as part of a liquid has a lot to do with the Polyvinylacetate’s properties , so to
discuss only PVC doesn’t cut it really
The poor quality regarding groove noise and clicks and pops that have nothing to do
with dirt is the fact that sometimes the Polyvinylacete parts in the composition don’t get melted
properly and when a stylus tracks such a groove area that a not properly melted particle compound breaks and
creates an additional noice floor
Looking forward , if You or others could comfirm , correct or add to my text
But so far Your knowledge stands out regarding the chemical reality of things
Martina
Thanks for the compliment!
Like I said earlier, PVC has to be compounded, for various end uses, and records are mostly obsolete, out of production here more than 30 years back.
So finding out the details is difficult, the senior people who did all the work will be above 80 years old, and quite senile.
I know PVC processors added acrylic dust (plant waste from acrylic plant) to get gloss and reduce die build up in pipes used for water supply. And many many additives were used, some quite unusual. But that is another long story.
The specific compositions for record production are superfluous now, as only a few plants are working.
The original purpose of this thread was cleaning records, and as usual (!), it went slightly off track...
Poly Vinyl Acetate emulsion is sold as wood glue here, so finding out that it was added to PVC is something new for me...
Like I said earlier, PVC has to be compounded, for various end uses, and records are mostly obsolete, out of production here more than 30 years back.
So finding out the details is difficult, the senior people who did all the work will be above 80 years old, and quite senile.
I know PVC processors added acrylic dust (plant waste from acrylic plant) to get gloss and reduce die build up in pipes used for water supply. And many many additives were used, some quite unusual. But that is another long story.
The specific compositions for record production are superfluous now, as only a few plants are working.
The original purpose of this thread was cleaning records, and as usual (!), it went slightly off track...
Poly Vinyl Acetate emulsion is sold as wood glue here, so finding out that it was added to PVC is something new for me...
Glad to see others are still trying this method.
I've found that wiping an album with alcohol before play, and just allowing it to evaporate before dropping the needle (doesn't take long), and then cleaning the album after play with a carbon fiber brush misted with distilled water, works great for used albums that aren't super dirty but need cleaning.
The misting of carbon fiber brushes before use has improved their utility by about 10x. Even for new records, I now mist my brush before pre-play cleans.
I've found that wiping an album with alcohol before play, and just allowing it to evaporate before dropping the needle (doesn't take long), and then cleaning the album after play with a carbon fiber brush misted with distilled water, works great for used albums that aren't super dirty but need cleaning.
The misting of carbon fiber brushes before use has improved their utility by about 10x. Even for new records, I now mist my brush before pre-play cleans.
I, too, am glad to see it is still getting interest.
I must say when I first read NareshBrd's posts I did not appreciate how important his messages were.
I think the method is very worthwhile but one has to be realistic about the outcome.
As a sad example - I had a new copy of the reissue XTC Apple Venus - it had some pops and clicks but was otherwise a very fine sounding record. I gave it one treatment (this is early on so the enthusiasm was getting the best of me) and this made a very good improvement so why not try it again.
The sad end of the story is I ended up doing it many more times and I did not realize what was happening until the record was ruined. Literally the worst sounding record I own and all because of my own stupidity. A replacement is ot available at this time though there are a few rubes trying to sell their copies fro absurd amounts of money.
Only then did I remember NareshBrd's warnings.
Luckily I have not harmed any other LPs.
Record cleaning like so much else in our kooky hobby is somewhere between an art and a craft. Sadly experience is the best teacher and we usually learn more from screwing things up than by getting them right.
Thanks to all involved!
I must say when I first read NareshBrd's posts I did not appreciate how important his messages were.
I think the method is very worthwhile but one has to be realistic about the outcome.
As a sad example - I had a new copy of the reissue XTC Apple Venus - it had some pops and clicks but was otherwise a very fine sounding record. I gave it one treatment (this is early on so the enthusiasm was getting the best of me) and this made a very good improvement so why not try it again.
The sad end of the story is I ended up doing it many more times and I did not realize what was happening until the record was ruined. Literally the worst sounding record I own and all because of my own stupidity. A replacement is ot available at this time though there are a few rubes trying to sell their copies fro absurd amounts of money.
Only then did I remember NareshBrd's warnings.
Luckily I have not harmed any other LPs.
Record cleaning like so much else in our kooky hobby is somewhere between an art and a craft. Sadly experience is the best teacher and we usually learn more from screwing things up than by getting them right.
Thanks to all involved!
There is really nothing using this method that can destroy a record, how is your record ruined?
I spoke with one person that insisted his record was ruined but it turns out that the method had loosened a bunch of scale from previous cleanings using tap water containing lots of minerals. So he had loosened all this stuff and was doing an inadequate job of removing the particles.
So I had him just use the carbon fiber brush (misted with distilled water) before and after play for a couple of plays, and the album then sounded better then ever. Not perfect, but way better than it ever had.
The key is really getting the loosened crud out of the groove. And nothing works better than a carbon fiber brush misted with a little distilled water. I do this before and after each side until the record stops improving. Then I just do it before each side.
I normally hold a crackly LP over a sink, and pour deionised water over th grooves, then wipe off with a clean sponge. If that fails, I normally repeat with a little Fairy (washing up) liquid (unscented!), wipe off, then rinse add wipe off again. This has fixed all my old (70's) albums so far, without the need for solvents or ultrasonics.
ive always used Vinyl Clear, non ionic fluid, which is endorsed by abby road studios and never had a problem, then i use the zerostat 3 milty, and always have static free playing.my records are also mint, so this does help, interesting reading though👍
