I just concluded a very nice visit with "chrisb" and "t3h GeeK" who stopped by my home while on an international junket. They had a pair of Planet10 Fonkens with them. The Fonkens were connected to my EL34 PP amp using a Decware modded SACD player as the source and my own little 10" sealed sub.
This particular pair of Fonkens had just received BudP's EnABL modification to the Fostex FE127E drivers.
I've played around a fair bit with the FE127E so I'm acquainted with their performance pluses and minuses.
This pair of speakers performed much better than I thought they would. A simply beautiful mid-range without the typical Fostex "shout".
I found the aperiodic cabinet to be an elegant solution to the FE127E's problem of "slapping" when over-driven: control the cone using the "spring" of the internal air mass.
I've admittedly grown a bit cold over the years toward Fostex drivers due to their typical upper mid-range distortion but these didn't exhibit that trait, at least not that I could detect. We listened to an assortment of music for about 3 hours. I pushed them pretty hard a couple of times with "Monty Meets Sly and Robbie" and "Alice In Chains:Unplugged" and they handled the task admirably.
If you've been contemplating a single full range driver bookshelf I strongly suggest giving this design a try.
Planet 10 Fonken Plans
BudP's FE127E Modification
DIY Audio Forum Discussion of the BudP Mod
This particular pair of Fonkens had just received BudP's EnABL modification to the Fostex FE127E drivers.
I've played around a fair bit with the FE127E so I'm acquainted with their performance pluses and minuses.
This pair of speakers performed much better than I thought they would. A simply beautiful mid-range without the typical Fostex "shout".
I found the aperiodic cabinet to be an elegant solution to the FE127E's problem of "slapping" when over-driven: control the cone using the "spring" of the internal air mass.
I've admittedly grown a bit cold over the years toward Fostex drivers due to their typical upper mid-range distortion but these didn't exhibit that trait, at least not that I could detect. We listened to an assortment of music for about 3 hours. I pushed them pretty hard a couple of times with "Monty Meets Sly and Robbie" and "Alice In Chains:Unplugged" and they handled the task admirably.
If you've been contemplating a single full range driver bookshelf I strongly suggest giving this design a try.
Planet 10 Fonken Plans
BudP's FE127E Modification
DIY Audio Forum Discussion of the BudP Mod
and the Winston Ma violin recordings could bring tears to your eyes for all the RIGHT reasons - what was the artist's name again?
thanks for the hospitality Tim & Ali
thanks for the hospitality Tim & Ali
Yes, there was a definite emotional response listening to Linda Rosenthal. The Fonkens made it easy to forget the equipment and become immersed in the music.
Linda's recordings are available from First Impression Music.
http://www.fimpression.com/detail.aspx?ID=36
http://www.fimpression.com/detail.aspx?ID=30
http://www.fimpression.com/detail.aspx?ID=29
We also listened to the Yamamoto, Tsuyoshi Trio which I recall you enjoying Chris.
http://www.fimpression.com/detail.aspx?ID=99
It was very enjoyable and we were happy to host you and Gregg.
Linda's recordings are available from First Impression Music.
http://www.fimpression.com/detail.aspx?ID=36
http://www.fimpression.com/detail.aspx?ID=30
http://www.fimpression.com/detail.aspx?ID=29
We also listened to the Yamamoto, Tsuyoshi Trio which I recall you enjoying Chris.
http://www.fimpression.com/detail.aspx?ID=99
It was very enjoyable and we were happy to host you and Gregg.
Hi Tim,
Yes, these Canadian guys are nice guests, very civilized and they do some pretty awesome cabinetry.
My only additions to your comments would center on the Bass. The drivers in those lovely cabinets, before the EnABL'd drivers were installed, were quite good sounding and also removed the Fostex Mid Hi distortion and shoutyness. They did exhibit a furry, thick bass line, that disappeared with the new drivers. The Bass was there, but very lean and muscular sounding. I prefer this but others may not. I was wondering if the new drivers had loosened up while playing in your venue. They were certainly hinting that they could portray the full weight of an orchestra, when here.
What I think we should do is get these friendly Canadian guys to send another pair of boxes down, EnABL the box face and sides and treat another pair of Fostex drivers. Have you play them until they are broken in and then all get together and listen.
When played here, driven by George Wright's truly excellent model 7 SE 300 B prototypes, to levels of 103 to 104 dB, with Levine and the CSO attacking the Groffe orchestration of Rhapsody in Blue, the Fostex drivers were actually overdriving the cabinets and causing slight dissonance, due to standing waves arising, even on these clever designs.
A fully treated set of boxes and drivers should return just about twice the clarity and contact with the emotion and art you were experiencing. Plus, the boxes will just disappear and the sound field will become stable, pinpoint in placement and infinitely deep.
I think we all need to have this happen to us and it would be most fun done together.
Hoping to meet you eventually.
Bud
Yes, these Canadian guys are nice guests, very civilized and they do some pretty awesome cabinetry.
My only additions to your comments would center on the Bass. The drivers in those lovely cabinets, before the EnABL'd drivers were installed, were quite good sounding and also removed the Fostex Mid Hi distortion and shoutyness. They did exhibit a furry, thick bass line, that disappeared with the new drivers. The Bass was there, but very lean and muscular sounding. I prefer this but others may not. I was wondering if the new drivers had loosened up while playing in your venue. They were certainly hinting that they could portray the full weight of an orchestra, when here.
What I think we should do is get these friendly Canadian guys to send another pair of boxes down, EnABL the box face and sides and treat another pair of Fostex drivers. Have you play them until they are broken in and then all get together and listen.
When played here, driven by George Wright's truly excellent model 7 SE 300 B prototypes, to levels of 103 to 104 dB, with Levine and the CSO attacking the Groffe orchestration of Rhapsody in Blue, the Fostex drivers were actually overdriving the cabinets and causing slight dissonance, due to standing waves arising, even on these clever designs.
A fully treated set of boxes and drivers should return just about twice the clarity and contact with the emotion and art you were experiencing. Plus, the boxes will just disappear and the sound field will become stable, pinpoint in placement and infinitely deep.
I think we all need to have this happen to us and it would be most fun done together.
Hoping to meet you eventually.
Bud
Bud, this sounds like a most excellent proposal. Let's generate lots of documentation of your invitation for our friends in blue - it could make for a much easier border crossing.
Maybe you and Tim could meet us for lunch at Sumas? Would there be a decent Thai place nearby or is it cowboy food only?
I note with interest on the map that the local street name for Route 9 within the city boundaries is Cherry. Most amusing in retrospect, because after our short "inspection", I felt as if I had one taken that after my last prostate exam, I didn't know still existed.
What's a bit scary is that I'm sure it's no problem recruiting officers who enjoy the sense of power this job allows.
"remember son, you're a visitor here, and I'm only doing my job to protect us from an enemy that could like anyone.................."
all the citizens I've met on this and earlier trips have been great - it's the "patriots" that scare me
(big brother, did you get that all down? - I don't want to be evasive)
Just a cathartic little black humor, folks - a bit of bother with the Immigration authorities. "Audio, what's that, and you're getting together to do what?"
Regarding George's amps - how long does he plan to keep these at prototype stage? and do you have any idea of proposed selling price? These are quite delicious, without the "extra flavor" that I've found in most 300B's that I've found a bit overwhelming to my tastebuds.
I'd estimate the total acoustic volume of Tim's room to be at least twice yours, and in addition his musical tastes and listening levels require the use of powered subwoofer. We didn't spend much time listening without, so he'd have a hard time assessing the bass performance of the unassisted FE127.
I'm obviously quite familiar with the performance of is design, and in my own situation, it's more than adequate without, even before 'Bud's Black Magic" voodoo mojo. Now, if treating the enclosure can reduce or eliminate the diffraction signature and assist in the box's disappearing act, I can see it being even more of a challenge to augment the bottom seamlessly
Maybe you and Tim could meet us for lunch at Sumas? Would there be a decent Thai place nearby or is it cowboy food only?
I note with interest on the map that the local street name for Route 9 within the city boundaries is Cherry. Most amusing in retrospect, because after our short "inspection", I felt as if I had one taken that after my last prostate exam, I didn't know still existed.
What's a bit scary is that I'm sure it's no problem recruiting officers who enjoy the sense of power this job allows.
"remember son, you're a visitor here, and I'm only doing my job to protect us from an enemy that could like anyone.................."
all the citizens I've met on this and earlier trips have been great - it's the "patriots" that scare me
(big brother, did you get that all down? - I don't want to be evasive)
Just a cathartic little black humor, folks - a bit of bother with the Immigration authorities. "Audio, what's that, and you're getting together to do what?"
Regarding George's amps - how long does he plan to keep these at prototype stage? and do you have any idea of proposed selling price? These are quite delicious, without the "extra flavor" that I've found in most 300B's that I've found a bit overwhelming to my tastebuds.
I'd estimate the total acoustic volume of Tim's room to be at least twice yours, and in addition his musical tastes and listening levels require the use of powered subwoofer. We didn't spend much time listening without, so he'd have a hard time assessing the bass performance of the unassisted FE127.
I'm obviously quite familiar with the performance of is design, and in my own situation, it's more than adequate without, even before 'Bud's Black Magic" voodoo mojo. Now, if treating the enclosure can reduce or eliminate the diffraction signature and assist in the box's disappearing act, I can see it being even more of a challenge to augment the bottom seamlessly
Glad to hear the Fonkens are getting near-universal approval where and whenever they turn up. They sound like remarkable little boxes.
I've never experienced cone "slapping" in my Fonkens, I also have an EL34 PP amp and have driven them very hard with all kinds of rock and hip-hop etc.
Thanks for posting the pics of the cone treatment Tim. Looks very cool.
Chris, glad to hear you're not the only one who gets a hard time crossing the border.😀
Jeff
vinylkid58 said:
On a driver this small, and with the particular colour of paint that Bud used for the blocks, they actually do look very artistic - but you should drop by Dave's place before the 'fest to get a real opportunity to hear them. (two words - Single Ended)
We had discussed the "marketability" of drivers with little dots all over them but they didn't look bad at all.
Timn8ter said:
I think the prologue is complete, but Bud and others have much more to contribute to this saga - whether commercial marketing of is included is a very interesting question.
ChrisB
Sumas has a restaurant? Would any of us believe it was Thai food? Wouldn't a picnic, in full sight of the VP's protection agency be best?
Sorry, "it's all for a good cause" and I am sure we want to be safe from an untimely passing.....
I have always thought I disliked SE amps of any persuasion. I realize this is a Luddite view. But, until George brought these two to my door, after asking for a set of sample SE OPT's to be driven by DHT's of 2A3 and 300 B persuasion, nothing I had heard or had in my possession had ever sounded like music to my ears.
I will inquire about pricing and delivery times and you can be certain I will manufacture endless reasons for continued "testing" of the prototype units in my living room.
I do think the Fonken boxes should be finished and final coated. Hopefully with a fairly glossy clear coat that dries nice and hard. We could then produce "stealth" treated boxes and drivers that you could take around to confound other Luddite like characters with. The pattern really is invisible except in reflected light, both on the cone and on the box surfaces.
Regardless, I will produce a set of sized templates for all surfaces this week and post them here in case Dave wants to try it out sooner than we can find our way to ....Sumas? I can also obtain pen tips and forward them if various search dogs have come home without pens or Brandy attached.
Bud
Sumas has a restaurant? Would any of us believe it was Thai food? Wouldn't a picnic, in full sight of the VP's protection agency be best?
Sorry, "it's all for a good cause" and I am sure we want to be safe from an untimely passing.....
I have always thought I disliked SE amps of any persuasion. I realize this is a Luddite view. But, until George brought these two to my door, after asking for a set of sample SE OPT's to be driven by DHT's of 2A3 and 300 B persuasion, nothing I had heard or had in my possession had ever sounded like music to my ears.
I will inquire about pricing and delivery times and you can be certain I will manufacture endless reasons for continued "testing" of the prototype units in my living room.
I do think the Fonken boxes should be finished and final coated. Hopefully with a fairly glossy clear coat that dries nice and hard. We could then produce "stealth" treated boxes and drivers that you could take around to confound other Luddite like characters with. The pattern really is invisible except in reflected light, both on the cone and on the box surfaces.
Regardless, I will produce a set of sized templates for all surfaces this week and post them here in case Dave wants to try it out sooner than we can find our way to ....Sumas? I can also obtain pen tips and forward them if various search dogs have come home without pens or Brandy attached.
Bud
fellas...
I thought it was Granville Island Ale, or Cannery Brewing Company Anarchist that's the brew up here.....? Brandy? What canuck would drink that?
oops, sorry for the hijack, I'm gettin ahead of myself. Dave what refreshments are being served at the end of the month?
And no amount of consumption of said refreshments will change my opinion about the Fonkens
I thought it was Granville Island Ale, or Cannery Brewing Company Anarchist that's the brew up here.....? Brandy? What canuck would drink that?
oops, sorry for the hijack, I'm gettin ahead of myself. Dave what refreshments are being served at the end of the month?
And no amount of consumption of said refreshments will change my opinion about the Fonkens
Re: fellas...
there'll likely be a few local "pops" from which to select, perhaps even a mini keg by Cal - otherwise if you have special "dietary needs" it's BYOI, (as long as you don't need to cross any international borders)
If anyone wants to gift the hosts and equipment wrangler , Makers Mark Bourbon would be a delightful late evening change from the strawberry daiquiris or cranberry martinis I had in mind for the afternoon buffet.
Wait 'til you hear Bud's treated drivers - it's almost like a stock Fostex was disAbl-ed 🙄
Hopefully there should be two pairs on hand for demo of this comparison at FrugelFest"07, and it looks like chris needs to fire up the ole chain saw for new production.
Nanook said:
there'll likely be a few local "pops" from which to select, perhaps even a mini keg by Cal - otherwise if you have special "dietary needs" it's BYOI, (as long as you don't need to cross any international borders)
If anyone wants to gift the hosts and equipment wrangler , Makers Mark Bourbon would be a delightful late evening change from the strawberry daiquiris or cranberry martinis I had in mind for the afternoon buffet.
Wait 'til you hear Bud's treated drivers - it's almost like a stock Fostex was disAbl-ed 🙄
Hopefully there should be two pairs on hand for demo of this comparison at FrugelFest"07, and it looks like chris needs to fire up the ole chain saw for new production.
Re: fellas...
There will be freshly squezzed iBone mountain well-water (better than 99% of your regular bottled water), and a selection of canned sucrose beverages.
alcool-holic beverages, etc are BYOI... the host is a cheap drunk, but prefers single malt (nothing Peaty) or Bristol Cream. But better to just get Ruth some wine collers.
dave
Nanook said:
There will be freshly squezzed iBone mountain well-water (better than 99% of your regular bottled water), and a selection of canned sucrose beverages.
alcool-holic beverages, etc are BYOI... the host is a cheap drunk, but prefers single malt (nothing Peaty) or Bristol Cream. But better to just get Ruth some wine collers.
dave
Now onto the subject at hand...
It is very syncronystic that Tim starts a thread on the Fonkens with budden (new word) FE127s since that particular pair has traveled from China to WI to Seattle to the Phillipines to Seattle to Victoria to Seattle and now back to Victoria.
i haven't yet had a serious listen to the Bud-enabled Fonkens. The one sit-down session came at the end of a hard day & during the midst of a plumbing emergency so well i could hear that there was a difference i was unable to completely assimilate it.
What i have heard since, and more or less comfirmed by some spooky emails i had with Bud (we crossed emails covering essentially the same points), is that we are at the beginning of a journey, not at an end... we have a lot of modding to do and many comparisons -- the hints are that the 2 treatments (or parts of) could well be complentary (one of the experiments is to enable an already modded P10 driver). 1st i need to bring the budden drivers up to the same level as far as basket treatment. And get some more FE127s prepped for experimentation. And Chris is going to get some more vessels done to carry this research on. Also sounds like a set of drivers & boxes need to get down to Bud for further experimentation -- either when we get together here or in Sumas (which is so close to Chilliwack/Abbottsford as to be the same), or can be transported at least close by a diyFest attendee.
We'll also start dabbling with FE126.
I'm going shopping tomorrow for enabling supplies.
This is exciting. The Fonkens are already giant-killers* -- taking them a step further up the ladder would be very satisfying.
*(a client wrote of his new Fonkens "I hate you... i can't listen to any other speakers now". Since that comment was made an array of comparisons has really brought that home -- "those are good, but they aren't Fonkens")
dave
It is very syncronystic that Tim starts a thread on the Fonkens with budden (new word) FE127s since that particular pair has traveled from China to WI to Seattle to the Phillipines to Seattle to Victoria to Seattle and now back to Victoria.
i haven't yet had a serious listen to the Bud-enabled Fonkens. The one sit-down session came at the end of a hard day & during the midst of a plumbing emergency so well i could hear that there was a difference i was unable to completely assimilate it.
What i have heard since, and more or less comfirmed by some spooky emails i had with Bud (we crossed emails covering essentially the same points), is that we are at the beginning of a journey, not at an end... we have a lot of modding to do and many comparisons -- the hints are that the 2 treatments (or parts of) could well be complentary (one of the experiments is to enable an already modded P10 driver). 1st i need to bring the budden drivers up to the same level as far as basket treatment. And get some more FE127s prepped for experimentation. And Chris is going to get some more vessels done to carry this research on. Also sounds like a set of drivers & boxes need to get down to Bud for further experimentation -- either when we get together here or in Sumas (which is so close to Chilliwack/Abbottsford as to be the same), or can be transported at least close by a diyFest attendee.
We'll also start dabbling with FE126.
I'm going shopping tomorrow for enabling supplies.
This is exciting. The Fonkens are already giant-killers* -- taking them a step further up the ladder would be very satisfying.
*(a client wrote of his new Fonkens "I hate you... i can't listen to any other speakers now". Since that comment was made an array of comparisons has really brought that home -- "those are good, but they aren't Fonkens")
dave
Heh, Geek "cum laude" in thread here 😉
Thank you wholeheartedly Bud, Sue, Tim and Ali for your hospitality. Definately the stress of the crossing left when in your homes 🙂
Amazing enlightenment in the visit. Quite an educational experience.
Chris - I'd be happy to play navigator again for you... maybe we'll sell the boys in blue a pair of Fonkens after they calm down
Cheers!
Thank you wholeheartedly Bud, Sue, Tim and Ali for your hospitality. Definately the stress of the crossing left when in your homes 🙂
Amazing enlightenment in the visit. Quite an educational experience.
Chris - I'd be happy to play navigator again for you... maybe we'll sell the boys in blue a pair of Fonkens after they calm down
Cheers!
Geek said:
Chris - I'd be happy to play navigator again for you... maybe we'll sell the boys in blue a pair of Fonkens after they calm down
Cheers!
If his hearing isn't totally destroyed from the weekends on the firing range, perhaps he might appreciate these. Let's start the demo session with some "Dixie Chicks" - cause I'm not quite ready to make nice myself
I know this is a little off topic, but I have been reading quite a few posts on the modded FE127, fonkens, etc...
Have any of you tried the Jordan JX92S in a fonken cab? I would really be interested in your thoughts or comments.
Thanks.
Daniel
Have any of you tried the Jordan JX92S in a fonken cab? I would really be interested in your thoughts or comments.
Thanks.
Daniel
Daze said:
My only experience with the JX92 has been the 48" triangulated TL design as posted on the Jordon website. I simply didn't care for the sound of it, and while I'd normally not let one such experience turn me off a particular driver or enclosure design, the price tag associated with the Jordans certainly could.
I suspect a Fonken style enclosure might not be the way to go for this driver; most of the posts I've seen of DIY or even commercial speaker products have been some form of TL , and there is also the BIB - specs are posted at
http://www.zillaspeak.com/BIB-Jordan.asp
Either Jordan's own TL or the BIB will definitely use more material than the Fonkens, but at the same time be a significantly easier build.
Regarding driver suitability, the "Fonken" enclosure was originally designed for the CSS FR125 - the aperiodic damping was intended to control the tendency this driver demonstrated towards over excursion in a larger MLTL tuned for the deep bass extension the driver's specs promised to deliver.
It worked quite satisfactorily, but since we're bonafide (or bone-headed, take your pick) fans of low power SE tube amps,
our experience with Fostex full range drivers in other designs lead us to try the 127 in this box, with only a very minor change in slot port CSA.
As it turns out, the extra efficiency in the 3-5Watt range is only one of the advantages of the FE127. There may very well be other drivers that work well in this box, and we may get around to trying a few ourselves someday, but the Budden'ed FE127E still has us quite captivated.
Thank you Bud!
- Status
- Not open for further replies.